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View Poll Results: How much does an immigrants inability to speak English irritate you?
It doesnt bother me. 112 32.94%
It bothers me somewhat. 54 15.88%
It really bothers me. 174 51.18%
No opinion, never heard anyone speak anything but English. 0 0%
Voters: 340. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 07-09-2008, 01:19 PM
 
Location: Arizona
2,070 posts, read 2,225,538 times
Reputation: 382
Quote:
Originally Posted by blacknight04 View Post
Leviticus 19:34 – "The stranger who resides with you shall be to you as the native among you; you shall love the stranger as yourself, for you were aliens in the land of Egypt: I am the Lord your God." Or as Jesus said so clearly, "I was a stranger and you welcomed me

Illegal immigrants are strangers and aliens right?
Funny, you left out Lev. 19:33, which shows the difference between a stranger passing through and a stranger living 'among us'. Go back and re-read my post, and thank you for playing...

 
Old 07-09-2008, 01:21 PM
 
Location: Arizona
2,070 posts, read 2,225,538 times
Reputation: 382
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Bagu View Post
Sorry; I do not see any person getting a Rep for quoting phrases or verses from any religious printed book. I am not anti religious but then again if I were to quote something from Kings James version 0f the Bible would I get any Rep? .... doubt it. I would gladly give 10 Reps to any person who is willing to give some PERSONAL advice/experience he/she has gone thru. That advice could possibly be of some help to others on C-D. Hope I did not offend anyone as just trying to be realistic. Excuse me, have to take my afternoon nap as I occasionally get senile. Steve
I'm not offended Steve, but the question was asked "WWJD", so I tried to answer it from the Book most closely associated with the things He taught.
 
Old 07-09-2008, 01:26 PM
 
4,828 posts, read 4,698,008 times
Reputation: 616
Quote:
Originally Posted by GuyPinestra View Post
Funny, you left out Lev. 19:33, which shows the difference between a stranger passing through and a stranger living 'among us'. Go back and re-read my post, and thank you for playing...
Quote:
leviticus 33 ‘When a stranger resides with you in your land, you shall not do him wrong. 34 ‘The stranger who resides with you shall be to you as the native among you, and you shall love him as yourself, for you were aliens in the land of Egypt; I am the LORD your God
Arent illegal immigrants residing with us right now in this land?
 
Old 07-09-2008, 01:32 PM
 
Location: Bountiful, Utah
220 posts, read 278,713 times
Reputation: 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Bagu View Post
Sorry; I do not see any person getting a Rep for quoting phrases or verses from any religious printed book. I am not anti religious but then again if I were to quote something from Kings James version 0f the Bible would I get any Rep? .... doubt it. I would gladly give 10 Reps to any person who is willing to give some PERSONAL advice/experience he/she has gone thru. That advice could possibly be of some help to others on C-D. Hope I did not offend anyone as just trying to be realistic. Excuse me, have to take my afternoon nap as I occasionally get senile. Steve

I repped him because he so quickly answered Barbie's questions with these quotes which shows he IS religious and knows the bible - I could not do that. I am impressed and I commend him for his knowledge in this area. But he always has terrific posts and if someone deserves it so be it!

Steve, I am not very religious either - but I should be. I am never bothered by anyone bringing any religion into discussion. I learned something by reading it, I am sorry you did not. And if you took the time to read all these threads you would learn A LOT from everyone's experiences on this board, not just this one thread, there is a ton of information constantly exchanged here.

Last edited by AnnaGrrrrrl; 07-09-2008 at 02:00 PM..
 
Old 07-09-2008, 01:37 PM
 
Location: Arizona
2,070 posts, read 2,225,538 times
Reputation: 382
Quote:
Originally Posted by blacknight04 View Post
Arent illegal immigrants residing with us right now in this land?
Let's try this again...

Lev 19:33-34
Quote:
And if a stranger sojourn with thee in your land, ye shall not vex him. But the stranger that dwelleth with you shall be unto you as one born among you, and thou shalt love him as thyself; for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt: I am the LORD your God.



So the contrast here is between the rules that apply to 1) the stranger passing through, versus the rules that apply to 2) the stranger who was dwelling with the Israelites.

The point of the passage was INTEGRATION into the Israelite community by the stranger.

The passage is saying not to apply the same criteria to the one who is merely stopping in versus the stranger who is to be considered a part of the community.

Now here is the point that matters: in order for the stranger to be considered part of Israel, the attitude of the Israelites was that they were required to "love him as thyself"...which is a high standard.

What did that "Stranger" have to do in order to be considered PART OF ISRAEL FIRST?

The answer is that the stranger had to:

1) Become an Israelite
2) Agree to be Bound by ALL the laws of Israel
3) Agree to follow ALL of the rules of Israel
4) Agree to the SAME penalty as those who were part of Israel.

That may sound casual to those who read this today, but there are two very important points:

1) Part of the Israel Law had "Death by Stoning" for many offenses, so joining the tribes who will stone you to death for breaking the rules has serious consequences.

2) The other part - is that in order to join Israel, he had to be circumcised.

So, instead of the responsibility being on Israel to treat that PERMANENT stranger as part of the tribe, YES - that is what they had to do,

But ONLY AFTER that stranger had agreed to abide by ALL OF THE LAWS OF ISRAEL, with death following shortly for many infractions.
 
Old 07-09-2008, 01:44 PM
 
4,828 posts, read 4,698,008 times
Reputation: 616
Quote:
Originally Posted by GuyPinestra View Post
Let's try this again...

Lev 19:33-34
Quote:
And if a stranger sojourn with thee in your land, ye shall not vex him. But the stranger that dwelleth with you shall be unto you as one born among you, and thou shalt love him as thyself; for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt: I am the LORD your God.



So the contrast here is between the rules that apply to 1) the stranger passing through, versus the rules that apply to 2) the stranger who was dwelling with the Israelites.

The point of the passage was INTEGRATION into the Israelite community by the stranger.

The passage is saying not to apply the same criteria to the one who is merely stopping in versus the stranger who is to be considered a part of the community.

Now here is the point that matters: in order for the stranger to be considered part of Israel, the attitude of the Israelites was that they were required to "love him as thyself"...which is a high standard.

What did that "Stranger" have to do in order to be considered PART OF ISRAEL FIRST?

The answer is that the stranger had to:

1) Become an Israelite
2) Agree to be Bound by ALL the laws of Israel
3) Agree to follow ALL of the rules of Israel
4) Agree to the SAME penalty as those who were part of Israel.

That may sound casual to those who read this today, but there are two very important points:

1) Part of the Israel Law had "Death by Stoning" for many offenses, so joining the tribes who will stone you to death for breaking the rules has serious consequences.

2) The other part - is that in order to join Israel, he had to be circumcised.

So, instead of the responsibility being on Israel to treat that PERMANENT stranger as part of the tribe, YES - that is what they had to do,

But ONLY AFTER that stranger had agreed to abide by ALL OF THE LAWS OF ISRAEL, with death following shortly for many infractions.
Are the parts i bolded in the Bible also? I'm sorry but i don't need your help to tell me what the Bible means or is implying. I have the Holy Spirit for that.
 
Old 07-09-2008, 01:49 PM
 
Location: Arizona
2,070 posts, read 2,225,538 times
Reputation: 382
Quote:
Originally Posted by blacknight04 View Post
Are the parts i bolded in the Bible also? I'm sorry but i don't need your help to tell me what the Bible means or is implying. I have the Holy Spirit for that.
Don't be ridiculous, BK, you'll notice I never implied that they were. It seems to me though, that you DO need some help in understanding what it means, because you seem to think that breaking the law is acceptable.
 
Old 07-09-2008, 02:11 PM
 
4,828 posts, read 4,698,008 times
Reputation: 616
Quote:
Originally Posted by GuyPinestra View Post
Don't be ridiculous, BK, you'll notice I never implied that they were. It seems to me though, that you DO need some help in understanding what it means, because you seem to think that breaking the law is acceptable.
If they are not then let the passage of the scripture speak for itself!! Why do you have to add your own personal commentary to mold it into what you want the scripture to be?

I never said breaking the law is acceptable but YOU are trying to use scripture to back up your anti-immigrant position, and i'm simply refuting you.

My point is obviously God doesn't see things black and white like we do .
Mark 2:23-28
Quote:
Now it happened that he [Jesus] went through the grainfields on the sabbath; and as they went his disciples began to pluck heads of grain. And the Pharisees said to him, "Look, why do they do what is not lawful on the sabbath?" But he said to them, "Have you never read what David did when he was in need and hungry, he and those with him; how he went into the house of God in the days of Abiathar the high priest, and ate the showbread, which is not lawful to eat except for the priests, and also gave some to those who were with him?" And he said to them, "The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath. Therefore the Son of Man is also lord of the sabbath."
Was it okay for Jesus to break the law on the sabbath? Was it okay for David and his men to break God's law when he was hungry and need of food to eat?
 
Old 07-09-2008, 02:23 PM
 
Location: Arizona
2,070 posts, read 2,225,538 times
Reputation: 382
Is there or is there not a difference between a stranger visiting and a stranger living with you? If so, what do you think that difference is? If not, why does the passage in Leviticus make a distinction?
 
Old 07-09-2008, 03:17 PM
 
8,972 posts, read 10,385,966 times
Reputation: 2944
Default Wwjd ?

Didn't Jesus also have some pretty strong opinions about "those who would lead children astray"?.....about divorce? about adultery? about children honoring their parents, and people coveting their neighbors' wives, and about taking His name in vain? Pornography? "Living together"?

Are we SURE we want to get Jesus involved in the illegal immigration mess? I mean, SURE, he'd be mad at those who 'mistreat the poor', no doubt about THAT....but just who ARE they? Average Americans? Rich Mexicans? The EMPLOYERS of illegals? Lying, duplicitous, insincere politicians? The KKK? MEChA? Drug smugglers? Border Patrol agents? Coyotes? Identity thieves?Just who WOULD Jesus 'bawl out' first?

Maybe before we call Jesus in to 'moderate' this situation, we should be VERY sure we're going to want to hear what he says....he MIGHT be mad at a few people we'd never have thought of, on our own.
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