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Old 01-03-2007, 05:52 PM
 
4,271 posts, read 7,887,141 times
Reputation: 1551

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Quote:
Originally Posted by notmeofficer View Post
it has nothing to do with Mexico's failure to provide for its people... they have national wealth ..oil..agriculture, (semi) skilled labor force, hard working people.. if the country truely wanted to address its ills.. they could
That is failure for the country to provide its own people; the country may have tons of wealth, but massive political corruption and feudalistic tendencies in its society trap many in poverty.

Nigeria has the same problem; tons of oil, but lots of poor people.
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Old 01-03-2007, 06:07 PM
 
4,271 posts, read 7,887,141 times
Reputation: 1551
"f you own a house, many of the property taxes you pay go to fund the public schools in your area, and those schools are demanding more money to contend with the illegal immigrant influx. Do you not think the money spent on additional teachers trying to teach these people English is not something you are paying for? "

A lot of it comes from the federal and state governments. Schools get money for more students and for poor students. That, and the Robin Hood laws still state Houston ISD is a "Robin Hood donor" district; i.e. the costs in Houston aren't enough to turn Houston ISD into a "needy" district.

" You and others pretend to sit on the fence to this problem but in reality you are all for illegal immigration; you never want it to end and don't seem to understand the implications of this massive influx of people on our infrastructure and social environment, aside from all of the economic implications."

Here's a question. Of all of the costs associated with illegal immigration (increased ESL kids in schools, and, money to cover them often comes from the state and federal government), are they offset by the decreased costs in construction and other services? I would like to know the answer.

I'm ambivalent about this issue; obviously there are problems, but there are benefits too. I understand that my country probably cannot support too many poor people, so I am not for a completely open border. At the same time, I understand that the U.S. economy would be hurt by a massive crackdown on illegal immigration.

The people who are hurt the most by illegal immigration are high school dropouts. See, the idea of "they do the jobs we don't want to do" is ACTUALLY "they do the jobs that most Americans don't want to do" for less money.

I feel like the companies like playing off one side of the illegal immigration debate against another so that they can continue to exploit illegal immigrants by ushering in a climate of fear and confusion. I have no hard evidence of this, but, I suspect this is the case.

Quote:
If that's the case, why do they keep going back to Mexico? We have many Hispanic children in the school district of which I'm employed. They all decided to go back to Mexico before the semester was over and therefore, their semester finals had to be given during a normal instructional day. Very little notice was given to the teachers regarding this. This country bends over backwards for these people. I know it isn't the fault of the youngsters, and I do feel very sorry for them.
Well, a lot of people make money for their families back home - they wire money from the U.S. to Mexico or other countries. Even though the family is in Mexico, the family still has more wealth since the breadwinner makes U.S. wages.

You are right about the "kids taking extended trips" being a problem; some schools come up with solutions regarding that issue. Some mostly-Dominican Republic school in New York City threatened attendance issues for kids who take such trips, but I forget the name of the school.

Also, we need to figure this out: Most illegal immigrants find the "exploitation" beneficial. Even though they are being cheated relative to us Americans, relative to many of their fellow workers in Mexico they are making lots of money! Therefore many Hispanic groups do not like the idea of increased regulation of illegal immigrants.

I haven't chosen a side because this is a complicated, complicated problem!

Last edited by Vicman; 01-03-2007 at 06:27 PM..
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Old 01-04-2007, 05:20 AM
 
Location: USA
14 posts, read 15,204 times
Reputation: 21
Wanna hear what's really true? I didn't make this up, this's the TRUTH, the one & only, what's really happening, & you know it:
When our country was slowly forming into a certain shape, our ancestors who came here, long long time ago, were not illigal immigrants. They were immigrants, but not illegal; they were just pioneers.
A lot of things happened, & we eventually won independence from England. More things followed & we finally became a union of the 50 states w/ other minor territories as we know of today. The United States of America was born, free & independent from anything or anyone from the rest of the world. We were beautiful, free & unique.

When different people from different places came, there were differences. But then, that was long long time ago, & our ancestors strived to be one, to be united (hence our name), & so everyone gave the best of what they had. One for all & all for one. They reached out to each other & had succeeded in creating what we used to know as "Real America." That was just a little while ago. We all started out differently, but we finally became "one." We did. We already had created a truly unique country with its own unique culture, that was shared by everyone here. People were finally equall.
And it was Chicken Soup, Chuck Berry & Baseball Caps. Every real American knows that. It's never been Burqa or whatever else that you wear in this country, the radio DJ spoke in English & we voted in English, & no one ate Fajita or whatever for dinner. That was only what you could get & might be interested in to just try at an international fair or something like that. Daddy never knew a guy who's name you couldn't pronounce or remember. That was the way. We had already created what uniquely defines us as true Americans. We're not a nation made of hodge-podge collage of different cultures from around the world anymore. That's not what "free" in this country means. No, no, no. Don't just do whatever you think's ok, do things right & American. What I'm saying is don't do something that's not traditionally American ever since we became "one" & call yourself "American." You've got to have good nerves to just naturally be able to sense that. We have our own ways that we share, & if a foreigner who wants to live here doesn't want to assimilate into our one unique way, then get out of here's what I say. I'm not a racist; I don't judge people by their skin color. But I AM a mentalist. If you're not American, then you're a foreigner. An outsider. And if you, an outsider, do not like our way here, please do not force your way here, please do not demand your foreign rights here, please go back to where you came from. "When in Rome...," remember? Please do not destroy our way of living here. We Americans do not believe in the third-world mentality that promotes low-level way of life. And our way is western, not oriental. If there were only 2 worlds in the universe & they were like "Europe" & "Asia," & if you were an American, then you'd feel more home/closer in Europe, b/c that's just how we do. If you want to know more please study US history, & you'll see (we hope) why. And we're friendly, & we say hi. We now have common law & order that we share. When our ancestors came here we did not, at least as the whole nation. But now we do. IT IS DIFFERENT NOW. If you come here illegally now, you're here ILLEGALLY. And for those of you who don't understand what illegal means, it means "NOT legal." And when something's not good, it's bad. And EVEN IF you're here legally, we don't like it if your different, foreign or fake attitude destroys what good things we've got here. You listen? Don't fake us.
It's just as easy as that. But people keep on crying out loud, b/c most of them are just greedy, they just want what they want, don't care about others, especially us real Americans, some of them just want others to think of themselves as liberal and smart(er) & cool or something, & the rest are just plain stupid. Or afraid. Or crazy or all of that. President, please wake up. You still want to see your own country's flag flying when you wake up, don't you?
I miss my California, now it's gone. GONE! I miss TX & I miss USA. You stole my childhood, my momories, house, & money too. I'm not gonna send my kids to school with yours, NEVER.
I just can't believe it. Leave us alone, foreigners. What makes you think we like you? Why can't you just stay home... If you just want to be friends, it's a-ok. But if you're here to invade, or fake it, you must really have a thickest brain, dude. B/c of you, friends left for all over & I have to look inside myself to go home now. I can do that 'cause you know what? I'm American. And no matter how you fake or invade and destroy my home, you will never ever steal what you cannot feel. You will never be ME. Won't you PLEASE just grab your money and GET OUTTA HERE!?!

Last edited by Little My; 01-04-2007 at 05:38 AM..
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Old 01-04-2007, 05:31 AM
 
Location: El Paso, TX
5,080 posts, read 7,665,726 times
Reputation: 1105
Interresting..

Here is the Military oath...

The wordings of the current oath of enlistment and oath for commissioned officers are as follows:

"I, _____, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God." (Title 10, US Code; Act of 5 May 1960 replacing the wording first adopted in 1789, with amendment effective 5 October 1962).

"I, _____ (SSAN), having been appointed an officer in the Army of the United States, as indicated above in the grade of _____ do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign or domestic, that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservations or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office upon which I am about to enter; So help me God." (DA Form 71, 1 August 1959, for officers.)

Oath of citizenship (United States)

The current oath is as follows:

I hereby declare, on oath, that I absolutely and entirely renounce and abjure all allegiance and fidelity to any foreign prince, potentate, state, or sovereignty of whom or which I have heretofore been a subject or citizen; that I will support and defend the Constitution and laws of the United States of America against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I will bear arms on behalf of the United States when required by law; that I will perform noncombatant service in the Armed Forces of the United States when required by the law; that I will perform work of national importance under civilian direction when required by the law; and that I take this obligation freely without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; so help me God.

What ever happened to these values, these oaths?
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Old 01-04-2007, 05:43 AM
 
Location: El Paso, TX
5,080 posts, read 7,665,726 times
Reputation: 1105
Not my words, but I found it interresting read..

Feel free to email this great author, email address below.


http://www.chronwatch.com/content/contentDisplay.asp?aid=25841&catcode=13 (broken link)

An Open Letter to All Border Patrol Agents
Written by Doc Farmer
Wednesday, December 27, 2006

Dear Border Patrol Agents, Officers and Employees,

First of all, thank you for your service. Your dedication to this nation is impressive and humbling. You do a tough job without nearly enough support from the government, in either manpower or equipment. You catch illegal aliens and drug smugglers, only to see them back on the American streets weeks (or even days) later. While you no longer have the infamous "catch and release" program, there's still no effective handling of the massive illegal alien problem by your employer -- the United States government.
[..]

Last edited by Yac; 01-04-2007 at 07:06 AM.. Reason: copyrights
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Old 01-04-2007, 05:46 AM
 
Location: El Paso, TX
5,080 posts, read 7,665,726 times
Reputation: 1105
Also read this, and the many articles on this topic..

http://www.alipac.us/modules.php?nam...wtopic&t=50269
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Old 01-04-2007, 12:29 PM
 
1,393 posts, read 2,490,525 times
Reputation: 413
Quote:
Originally Posted by Muhnay View Post
Interresting..

Here is the Military oath...

The wordings of the current oath of enlistment and oath for commissioned officers are as follows:

"I, _____, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God." (Title 10, US Code; Act of 5 May 1960 replacing the wording first adopted in 1789, with amendment effective 5 October 1962).

"I, _____ (SSAN), having been appointed an officer in the Army of the United States, as indicated above in the grade of _____ do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign or domestic, that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservations or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office upon which I am about to enter; So help me God." (DA Form 71, 1 August 1959, for officers.)

Oath of citizenship (United States)

The current oath is as follows:

I hereby declare, on oath, that I absolutely and entirely renounce and abjure all allegiance and fidelity to any foreign prince, potentate, state, or sovereignty of whom or which I have heretofore been a subject or citizen; that I will support and defend the Constitution and laws of the United States of America against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I will bear arms on behalf of the United States when required by law; that I will perform noncombatant service in the Armed Forces of the United States when required by the law; that I will perform work of national importance under civilian direction when required by the law; and that I take this obligation freely without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; so help me God.

What ever happened to these values, these oaths?


The liberal left lead by the ACLU and others ( liberal left wing federal judges that make law from the bench and not enforcing law from the bench ) have decided for you and me what America should be...
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Old 01-04-2007, 02:22 PM
 
Location: Fort Worth/Dallas
11,878 posts, read 32,924,989 times
Reputation: 5539
Vicman,
In your reponse to my post above you try and say that "we" as property owners and such are not burdened by the entire cost of illegal aliens in our schools, costs of ESL teachers and the like because the federal government take a fair share of that cost. I have one question for you that should illustrate the ridiculousness of your post.

Just who do you think is the federal governemnt?

Answer: It is we the people and it is we the people who are paying those taxes to the "federal government."
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Old 01-04-2007, 04:54 PM
 
Location: El Paso, TX
5,080 posts, read 7,665,726 times
Reputation: 1105
Ahh Yac, deleted most of the message.. Oh well.. I guess you can find it if you need to know the whole thing. =)

If we are the federal gov. then why are we not getting what we want?
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Old 01-04-2007, 05:56 PM
 
4,271 posts, read 7,887,141 times
Reputation: 1551
1. Check this out, Synopsis: http://www.nytimes.com/2006/04/16/bu...8fc85a76c&ei=5 090

2. Synopsis: Did you buy a home? Do you buy produce? Poultry? Ever consider that many of those costs are LOWERED by cheap labor (i.e. illegals)? Why do you think businesses are hiring them? I do not know how often these costs compensate for increased property taxes and income taxes (And, no illegals do not use Social Security - they do contribute to it, but nobody benefits from the said contributed money) - But I would like for someone to figure that out

And, as a note: Rick Perry is not the "savior" of border patrol; two of his largest contributors are Perry Homes and Pilgrim's Pride Chicken, both of which rely on illegal labor.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Synopsis View Post
Vicman,
In your reponse to my post above you try and say that "we" as property owners and such are not burdened by the entire cost of illegal aliens in our schools, costs of ESL teachers and the like because the federal government take a fair share of that cost. I have one question for you that should illustrate the ridiculousness of your post.

Just who do you think is the federal governemnt?

Answer: It is we the people and it is we the people who are paying those taxes to the "federal government."
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