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Old 12-27-2006, 08:22 AM
 
Location: zooland 1
3,744 posts, read 3,276,525 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hotcity View Post
notmeofficer, you're contradicting yourself if you analyze your post carefully. Without spending too much time typing this post, let me ask you this question:

Would you feel the same way about these immigrants, with everything stays the same (which include the school and language problems you're complaining, etc.), if they are here legally?

I hope your answer will clear the point that I am trying to make. Your frustration doesn't not center around the legality of their presence, but rather on their presence.
If their presence was legal... and voted on by the majority I would have no general issues with immigration... because the things that frustrate me would be reasonably addressed. reasonable people would know that you cannot simply overload a system without adjustments... and those might be...

1)No automatic citizenship for children born here to non American citizens
2)Persons seeking citizenship have to demonstrate ability to care for themselves without automatically draining our welfare/social services (other countries require this.. why are we different?)
3)Legal citizenship should have annual caps so that our society isnt overwhelmed with another countries ills (thank Castro for emptying his prisons in 1982 with Mauriolitos,,, hardened criminals).. or Mexicos abject corruption creating a society of poverty
4) Resident aliens who commit crimes should be deported to their own countries.. illegals who commit crimes (and make up a huge proportion of the Los Angeles County Jail system) should have never been here to begin with
5)Amnesty... what the heck is that.. something thought up by some liberal social justice wannabe? The rest of us have to live with the results of what has been an apathetic, politically motivated, liberal driven immigration policy by a select few,,, make it any political group you like.. republican democrat independent.. they are all equally to blame..
6)Citizenship should be tiered.. not automatic.. prove your worth.. get the card.. prove some more get another card.. five years of good service.. get the status
7) English,, is the primary language here.. it should be celebrated and promoted.. it is a common thread that binds Americans... it shouldnt be substituted with ebonics,spanglish, pigeonese or whatever
8) I havent even addressed the nefarious individuals that come streaming across our borders to commit acts of terror... it is self evident what should happen to those "immigrants"

Ellis island doesnt say give me ALL your tired, poor, and hungry.... and the immigration policies that our country was founded on dont work today,, close the door.. no.. embrace all peoples ..sure.. at least those that want to embrace America.. and not turn this country into the third world

Its easy to sit it out on the sidelines... I personally havent...
I was active my whole adult life trying to make where I lived a better place for all Americans... sic. AMERICANS... I believe Im realistic in believing I cannot, nor am I able, (to) make other places "better",, that is the job of the government where illegal aliens come from. Trust me.. I tell my political leaders what I think and I vote... and yes Ive had to learn spanish and chinese,, and enough other languages to commnuicate with the communties where I lived and worked. I wouldnt expect to go to another country and have the people there change their lives to communcate with me.. Id learn their language

Those of you that havent been substantially touched by the effects illegal immigration take heed from those Americans who are protesting loudly
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Old 12-27-2006, 09:10 AM
 
101 posts, read 178,195 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve97415 View Post
What do you propose our uniform immigration policy should be, and what should be the consequences for noncompliance?

State it in positive language that can actually be implemented as enforceable policy; no objections to the status quo or "what-we-shouldn't-do's".

p.s. Don't forget the Supreme Court's mandate that the implementation of the principles of American jurisprudence must be "neither unreasonable nor arbitrary".
Leave those who have been here for certain number of years without any criminal background and allow a process for them to gain legal residency. More strict border control. Deport the ones who, say did not arrive here before 2001 and not allow anyone arriving here after 2001 to get any kind of government assistance or ability to gain legal status. Strict penalties for business that knowingly hire illegal immigrants. Along with other rules, it should be enough to discourage and restrict illegal immigration and at the same time reasonably and humanely treat certain ones who have established themselves here in the US for years.

You guess you get my ideas.
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Old 12-27-2006, 10:03 AM
 
Location: The Big D
14,874 posts, read 36,265,828 times
Reputation: 5787
And now some civil rights groups are suing the city of Farmers Branch for making English the official language and making it illegal in their city for landlords to rent to illegal aliens.

Since when did "ILLEGAL" people in THIS country get "civil rights"? I know this is a dumb question and I know the answer but it just blows my mind still. If you are HERE in this country ILLEGALLY YOU HAVE NO CIVIL RIGHTS!!!!! Look how hard Mexico makes it for Americans to own property there. And I am sure that I would not be treated the same in their hospital in an emergency in care and in what I had to pay compared to the treatment illegals get here in the United States. You bring up the "make a difference" in your community. Why can the people that want to live better not do so in their home country? They come here and make money and send it home, don't pay taxes, etc here but what is done w/ the money they send home? It's not used on schools or improving the infrastructure of their poor town. Where is this money REALLY going when it gets back to Mexico?
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Old 12-27-2006, 12:15 PM
 
1,313 posts, read 5,659,509 times
Reputation: 1924
Quote:
Originally Posted by momof2dfw View Post
Since when did "ILLEGAL" people in THIS country get "civil rights"? I know this is a dumb question and I know the answer but it just blows my mind still. If you are HERE in this country ILLEGALLY YOU HAVE NO CIVIL RIGHTS!!!!!
I wish it were that simple. I would call due process a "civil right" and aliens, legal or otherwise are entitled to due process and equal protection under the Fifth and Fourteenth Amendments. In actual fact, the Constitution reserves only a few rights for citizens, among which are: the unencumbered right to depart and enter the U.S., the right to vote, and the right to occupy the Office of the President. If you look at the wording of the 14th Ammendment I quoted earlier, you'll notice the problem: "No state shall deny to any person under its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws." The Supreme Court has always maintained that the phrase "any person under its jurisdiction" applied to visitors and aliens, so, no, you don't have to be a citizen to enjoy certain Constitutional protections. This was clarified in Plyler vs. Doe, 1982 (which came out of Texas). The ruling reads, in relevant part:

Whatever his status under the immigration laws, an alien is a "person" in any ordinary sense of that term. This Court's prior cases recognizing that illegal aliens are "persons" protected by the Due Process Clauses of the Fifth and Fourteenth Amendments, which Clauses do not include the phrase "within its jurisdiction," cannot be distinguished on the asserted ground that persons who have entered the country illegally are not "within the jurisdiction" of a State even if they are present within its boundaries and subject to its laws. Nor do the logic and history of the Fourteenth Amendment support such a construction. Instead, use of the phrase "within its jurisdiction" confirms the understanding that the Fourteenth Amendment's protection extends to anyone, citizen or stranger, who is subject to the laws of a State, and reaches into every corner of a State's territory. Pp. 210-216.
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Old 12-27-2006, 12:37 PM
 
1,313 posts, read 5,659,509 times
Reputation: 1924
Quote:
Originally Posted by hotcity View Post
Leave those who have been here for certain number of years without any criminal background and allow a process for them to gain legal residency.
Amnesty? Punish those who get caught crossing the border, but reward those who get away with it? The IRCA amnesty in 1986 resulted in a tidal wave of illegal immigration in subsequent years. Probably 15 to 25 million, nobody knows for sure. I still have immigrant kids in my classroom who ask me that question: Maestro, ¿cuándo hará otra amnistía? (Teacher, when will there be another amnesty?). They take it for granted that it's coming sooner or later! Too many people try and forge immigration policy around the people that are already here. Policy must take into account the effect that the law will have on those who might yet aspire to illegally enter in the future. We send the message that all you have to do is sneak in and sit tight, and sooner or later there will be some kind of "status adjustment" law that will legitimize your residency. But it doesn't end there. Any law that legitimizes the status for those already here inspires tens of millions of other aliens to attempt the same strategy. It's a cyclical nightmare that never ends. We can't say, "Okay...I know we said no more amnesty before, but this is the last time and after this we mean it!". They'll still come.

Last edited by Steve97415; 12-27-2006 at 12:58 PM..
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Old 12-27-2006, 12:43 PM
 
101 posts, read 178,195 times
Reputation: 17
Steve, what kind of subject do you teach? College or high school?
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Old 12-27-2006, 12:44 PM
 
1,313 posts, read 5,659,509 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hotcity View Post
Steve, what kind of subject do you teach? College or high school?
I teach Spanish and English as a Second Language in high school.
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Old 12-27-2006, 12:50 PM
 
101 posts, read 178,195 times
Reputation: 17
Steve, if you don't mind me asking, what's your age range (for example, 40-50) and what's your ethnical background?
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Old 12-27-2006, 12:56 PM
 
1,313 posts, read 5,659,509 times
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I'm in the 40-50 age range you used as an example. My ethnic background is Scandanavian-American (Minnesota-born parents), but I was raised near the border in southern Arizona and have spent a lot of time in Mexico, one of my favorite countries. I also spent a lot of time in Brazil in my early 20's so I've ended up with a linguistically and culturally complex sense of identity.
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Old 12-27-2006, 12:59 PM
 
101 posts, read 178,195 times
Reputation: 17
Steve, what's your view on interracial relationship and interracial marriage?
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