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Old 01-01-2007, 09:14 PM
 
Location: NW Las Vegas - Lone Mountain
15,756 posts, read 32,479,957 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fastfilm View Post
"In the first place, we should insist that if the immigrant who comes here in good faith becomes an American and assimilates himself to us, he shall be treated on an exact equality with everyone else, for it is an outrage to discriminate against any such man because of creed, or birthplace, or origin. But this is predicated upon the person's becoming in every facet an American, and nothing but an American...There can be no divided allegiance here. Any man who says he is an American, but something else also, isn't an American at all. We have room for but one flag, the American flag... We have room for but one language here, and that is the English language... and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a loyalty to the American people."

- Theodore Roosevelt, 1907

I'm with Teddy: be proud of your parents' heritage, but consider yourself to be an American.
That quote can fairly be criticized as un-American. The right to dual citizenship has been upheld by the US courts. Note that in many cases it is unavoidable. The acceptance of US Citizenship does not prevent another country from continuing to claim you are their citizen.
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Old 01-01-2007, 11:16 PM
 
107 posts, read 675,516 times
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Dual-citizenship translates to dual taxation, something most sane people wish to avoid. I'm aware that Switzerland considers women who marry its male citizenry, even abroad and residing abroad, automatically to be enveloped into the fold of Swiss citizenship. Who else?
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Old 01-01-2007, 11:34 PM
 
Location: Orange County
354 posts, read 761,717 times
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Fastfilm, by posting that quote are you implying that if the illegal immigrants you incessantly complain about enrolled in ESL classes, hung American flags in front of their homes, and overall acted more "American" you wouldn't mind their presence?

I'm somewhat confused. Not only you, but several ex-Californians (or soon to be) cite the illegal immigration problem to be a large factor in their own decision to flee California.
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Old 01-01-2007, 11:34 PM
 
4,267 posts, read 7,883,469 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Perdu View Post
Dual-citizenship translates to dual taxation, something most sane people wish to avoid. I'm aware that Switzerland considers women who marry its male citizenry, even abroad and residing abroad, automatically to be enveloped into the fold of Swiss citizenship. Who else?
Some countries ban dual citizenship; i.e. Japan. But the US citizenship laws allow a loophole that allows one to actually retain dual citizenship, so long as he or she maintains a low profile.
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Old 01-02-2007, 08:01 AM
 
Location: South Bay, California
1,701 posts, read 5,846,862 times
Reputation: 330
Quote:
Originally Posted by ;241623
Again, wrong analogy. Breaking immigration and border security laws are Federal offenses, shifting them into the categories of grievous felonies like bank robbery. At least we all have accord now that illegal immigration is wrong. I'm afraid that only the non-wealthy on this chat know first-hand how these wage-depressing, antagonistic to Americans, illegals badly impact our lives. Ivory tower syndrome reigns amonst the wealthy. . .
I would respect a poor illegal immigrant trying to cross the border looking for money to send to his beleagured family in Mexico any day, rather than a person robbing a bank out of his personal and selfish greed. You can honestly tell me the thief deserves more incarceration time. You don't have to be wealthy to be affected. The middle class wages are not affected by illegal immigration. I live with my parents, I am not part of the wealthy. I've taken low-class jobs in college, and yeah the wages have been depressed over the years, but it's enough to pay for my expenses. If I want to stay in California, I better light a fire to my rear and work hard to have a decent job. You don't have to work a low-end job, every American has the ability to receive a decent job with the advanced educational training in this country. How are they antagonistic to Americans? Have they injured or harmed OUR nation in a way that deserves a royal trash talking? Some people have told me they are negatively affected by seeing fifty of them outside Home Depot, does this have a negative impact on you or scare you? I think when some Americans lose the hostility, I believe they will see a transparent person.
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Old 01-02-2007, 11:03 AM
 
1,398 posts, read 6,017,866 times
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I don't live in Manhattan Beach, so the illegals as well as the naturalized citizens, pleasant or not so pleasant, are my immediate neighbors, not just a rhetorical theorem. Have they harmed me? You betcha. The illegal that drove without a license, sped through the red light, and lied about all personal info to the police, complete with translator, totalled my car and harmed me, and two other motorists, physically. The two other (I presume) naturalized citizens, who could only communicate to the police with a translator as well, also totalled my cars. All within the last six years. The licensed drivers obviously had little grasp of English and DMV laws despite their licensing, as their actions caused the accidents.
My neighbor's car was totalled by four young men of Mexican descent, as she surmised when the police and insurance investigation confimed that they had returned to Mexico as soon as the investigation got close. She had been severely injured. I am now a reluctant believer in redlining, since our area is home to so many from other countries, legal or not, who cause a disproportionate amount of crashes. Everyone I know here has similiar stories.

I believe anyone who's not rich would dispute your patent dismissal of wage-depressing by illegals. And when middle class neighborhoods are changed to resemble slums by illegals with no cultural prohibition against trashing and leaving debris everywhere, not to mention quality of life issues like noise pollution, you start to see evidence that a city overwhelmed with undocumenteds as opposed to normal legal immigration, cannot function. I hope you never get sick and have to rely upon a county emergency center. You'll be the last in line, due to illegals. And complete strangers talking in different languages spit at me.
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Old 01-02-2007, 11:33 AM
 
Location: South Bay, California
1,701 posts, read 5,846,862 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fastfilm View Post
I don't live in Manhattan Beach, so the illegals as well as the naturalized citizens, pleasant or not so pleasant, are my immediate neighbors, not just a rhetorical theorem. Have they harmed me? You betcha. The illegal that drove without a license, sped through the red light, and lied about all personal info to the police, complete with translator, totalled my car and harmed me, and two other motorists, physically. The two other (I presume) naturalized citizens, who could only communicate to the police with a translator as well, also totalled my cars. All within the last six years. The licensed drivers obviously had little grasp of English and DMV laws despite their licensing, as their actions caused the accidents.
My neighbor's car was totalled by four young men of Mexican descent, as she surmised when the police and insurance investigation confimed that they had returned to Mexico as soon as the investigation got close. She had been severely injured. I am now a reluctant believer in redlining, since our area is home to so many from other countries, legal or not, who cause a disproportionate amount of crashes. Everyone I know here has similiar stories.

I believe anyone who's not rich would dispute your patent dismissal of wage-depressing by illegals. And when middle class neighborhoods are changed to resemble slums by illegals with no cultural prohibition against trashing and leaving debris everywhere, not to mention quality of life issues like noise pollution, you start to see evidence that a city overwhelmed with undocumenteds as opposed to normal legal immigration, cannot function. I hope you never get sick and have to rely upon a county emergency center. You'll be the last in line, due to illegals. And complete strangers talking in different languages spit at me.
You're right, I do live in an Extremely Wealthy Area! I cannot deny this, and I have had many encounters with illegal immigrants, but I must admit they are not living in my city. I apologize about your incident with the illegal who lied to the police and injured two people. This is very unfortunate, and the 4 hispanic individuals who hit your friends car, and then fled to Mexico. These actions are unacceptable and undenyably wrong. They should be punished as a typical American should, by a judge and/or a jury. We all have similiar Isolated incidences. Everyone has probably met a racially bias person, or been involved in something as serious as you and your friend have. We must shy away from giving these isolated incidences more life than they hold. There are people here illegally, they have broken the law. But, when we begin to form opinion about these folks based on isolated incidences, we begin to group them together. These thoughts and eventually statements, start from a generalization and end in stereotypes, then personal attacks. For example, say I'm Asian, and I meet a couple caucasian cowboys who chew tobacoo from Tennessee. I can't go to my Asian friends and say hey did you know the white cowboys in Tennesse chew Tobacco. Do you see how this is very politically incorrect, many of the statements on this site are relevant to this. My grandmother became racist towards blacks after working at the VM. She wasn't racist before, but she claimed blacks talk to much and steal things. Do all black people do these things? No way! Her basis of racism was isolated incidences. She developed opinions based on her own experiences.

Because middle-class folks neighborhoods have gone downhill, doesn't mean wages have depressed based on my observation in parts of California. Now, I can't make this statement in other parts of Cali or other states cause I don't know. There is really no strong middle class in California anymore. Yes, the influx of immigration has led to white folks being isolated in primarily latino neighborhoods in the Southwest. It's called white flight. It's not the trash and litter that hurts a neighborhood, it's the gangs and the wear down of houses of businesses. Over time, the exterior paint and originality of construction can make a city look much more rundown than it truly is. If someone can tell me their neighborhood is difficult to live in because of trash, then maybe their overly sensitive.
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Old 01-02-2007, 11:40 AM
 
Location: Colorado
10,017 posts, read 16,690,837 times
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No body wants to buy your home when their neighbor ( of 11 latinos) has four old dead cars and beer bottles and garbage laying all over the place. So yes garbage does hurt.
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Old 01-02-2007, 11:55 AM
 
Location: South Bay, California
1,701 posts, read 5,846,862 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1 View Post
No body wants to buy your home when their neighbor ( of 11 latinos) has four old dead cars and beer bottles and garbage laying all over the place. So yes garbage does hurt.
Four dead cars might be true in Arizona, but I've driven through plenty of heavily dominant Latino neighborhoods in California, and I have never witnessed this. Beer bottles, I KNOW plenty of white guys who drink in the streets then walk through them like a wave of crazy mongols. lol. Yeah, garbage is very trashy, but it should definently not be your number one quota for deportation of illegal immigrants.
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Old 01-02-2007, 12:00 PM
 
Location: Colorado
10,017 posts, read 16,690,837 times
Reputation: 2086
You need to get out more. I have been to La, seen so much trash, and dead cars, lived next to some in NC bad there to as well as Maryland. As well as in Oregon. With disrespect comes trash. My number one reason for not wanting Illegals here, disrespect of my family that came here the hard way and assimulated and didnt protest or complain.
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