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Old 01-02-2007, 08:11 AM
 
146 posts, read 530,168 times
Reputation: 180

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Quote:
Originally Posted by gizmo980 View Post
These have never been requirements, for immigrants from (or entering) any country... P.S. If we're going to require all immigrants to speak English properly, can we do the same with U.S.-born citizens? Some people who were born here have no command of the language, which is even sadder in my opinion.

1) There have always been requirements placed both on immigrants and non-immigrants entering the U.S. There is a whole HOST of disqualifying factors that will keep a foreign national from legally entering our country. There is also a whole HOST of requirements that an alien must meet in order to stay.

2) Please differentiate between "immigrant" and "illegal alien". It's been a political ploy by groups who want to allow illegal aliens to remain in this country to label them "immigrants" which has a much more touchy feely we-should-care-about-them-and they-have-legal-status moniker than the correct and legal term: "illegal alien".

3) Are you really suggesting that because some US citizens haven't mastered the language, immigrants/non-immigrants shouldn't be required to speak English? Our standards have been lowered, so let's just let them remain low and sink lower?
Everyone in this country should be speaking standard English. I'm doing my best to make that happen.

 
Old 01-02-2007, 08:12 AM
 
3,020 posts, read 23,079,930 times
Reputation: 2686
Default Yes, there are places free of them

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nunya_ View Post
I'm sick and tired of this country being given over to the illegals.... tired of everybody, including, and especially the government, catering to them and their their annoying language... tired of listening to piped in radio stations at the stores IN SPANISH!!! Makes me wonder what country I'm living in! Anyone know a place in the US where people speak English?

This is subject that is poorly understood to my mind. These illegals do not exist in a vacuum. If you really don't want them, the solution is simple. Stop providing the economic underpinning that makes their activity profitable and allows them to exist in the USA.

Many SE Ohio counties will have none or very, very few. The reason is simple. No jobs, they compete with the locals for the low wage jobs and there is super amount of pressure against hiring them. Any employer known to have them is risking a loss of business. Might even be reported quickly. The locals do not miss much as to who is who.

Plus there is no real support network for them. The locals in government probably are not going to make it easy for them. Just about nobody local speaks or reads Spanish. They know what has happened in other places, no way are the locals going to be accepting loads of kids into their school systems. Would not surprise me if the local cops targeted them. Any new comers, even native types have to fit into a pattern, learn to speak and deal with rednecks and their particular way of thinking. Lot of people are related in some fashion, they protect their own.

The real culprits in my book are the employers who willingly and actively seek to hire them, in some cases recruiting them by skill level in their home countries and also acting as a support network to get them paperwork required. As their numbers increase in any area, they take on an ability of their own to house and get additional newcomers into the system. It is the greed and support of employers that is the root of the problem.

Been spending the holidays and winter in Florida. Very easy to dislike the illegals. They have an attitude, just the ones in stores with unruly, stupid kids that are acting like fools, plays into the image of undesirables.

But any community can make it difficult for them, remove the jobs, remove the active support system for them and they will find somewhere else. The general population is part of the problem, the Government and its lack of enforcement is part of the problem. I put the employers at the top of the list, quit hiring them and they will quit coming.

Have a working "Guest" worker program, where only the adults can enter the country, make any childern born to them a native of the home country with a "Special Birth Certificate" that is spelled out by a treaty agreement. Any new borns must be immediately removed from the country. You must decide the idea between employing them is just an economic type situation and who is eligible for citizenship. Totally screwed up from day one. Citizenship should never have been granted for anyone who did not use the approved system as spelled out by law.

If you put and enforce severe actions on employers with improper hired illegals the problem will go away. Might be able to pay off the National Debt. Ain't going to happen, has become a political issue where the pols are being paid off by business with interest in wiping out the American middle class.

But there are places that still don't have the problem. You just need the right sets of economics and social situations that makes it impossible for employers to start the chain that leads to most of the problems. Pick any of those sourthern rural counties in Ohio. Even you might have it tough if you try to go to hard against the flow.

The best enforcement are the employers who must compete against each other. Anyone trying to get a quick advantage over the other by hiring illegals under the table is quickly going to attract attention from the others, plus how are all their relatives going to get jobs, lots of welfare in those SE counties and the locals are sure going to see it remains local by the traditions observed for many years. The real answers aren't simple but it would be a type problem that can be solved if you use the right tools.
 
Old 01-02-2007, 10:21 AM
 
Location: Bay Area, CA
28,188 posts, read 43,469,993 times
Reputation: 18605
Quote:
Originally Posted by english_teacher View Post
1) There have always been requirements placed both on immigrants and non-immigrants entering the U.S. There is a whole HOST of disqualifying factors that will keep a foreign national from legally entering our country. There is also a whole HOST of requirements that an alien must meet in order to stay.
I never said there were NO requirements for immigration, LOL... I said that speaking English and having "enough money" weren't requirements. I've looked into working abroad, so I'm fully aware of the process for immigrating - which is much easier for U.S. citizens looking to leave.

Quote:
2) Please differentiate between "immigrant" and "illegal alien". It's been a political ploy by groups who want to allow illegal aliens to remain in this country to label them "immigrants" which has a much more touchy feely we-should-care-about-them-and they-have-legal-status moniker than the correct and legal term: "illegal alien".
Ummmm... that's simple, an immigrant may have come here legally, whereas an illegal alien did not. If you meant the difference between "illegal immigrant" and "illegal alien", well there is none. What's your point exactly? I never brought up this topic, so I think you misunderstood what I was saying.

Quote:
3) Are you really suggesting that because some US citizens haven't mastered the language, immigrants/non-immigrants shouldn't be required to speak English? Our standards have been lowered, so let's just let them remain low and sink lower?
Nope, I never said that either - quite the opposite, in fact (you might want to read my posts more carefully from now on)! I just think it would be nice if our schools held higher standards for ALL students, regardless of their native language... the government needs to focus on educating children who are already here, which seems to be a lower priority than keeping everyone out. Plus, I hate seeing people criticize a new immigrant's English, when they can barely speak it themselves. It's just hypocritical, and really very sad.

Quote:
Everyone in this country should be speaking standard English. I'm doing my best to make that happen.
Of course they should, but it takes time for some people to learn a new language... I doubt that if you moved to Holland tomorrow, you'd speak perfect Dutch in a week. And don't say "at least I'd try", because most of the immigrants here try as well. Oh, and in case you missed it from my other posts, I was an English teacher too - so I'm also trying my best, by teaching those who struggle with our language. Additionally, I never judge my students, which is how a teacher is supposed to act. Even if they give attitude, I'd NEVER throw blame around & generalize their whole race. But I went back for my master's, so now I am a librarian instead... also bringing education to the masses, and attempting to instill it's value in all who visit my library.
 
Old 01-02-2007, 10:48 AM
 
Location: Burlington, VT
483 posts, read 1,747,060 times
Reputation: 241
This is America where the national language is English and ONLY English.

Actually, America doesn't have a national language.

Have a working "Guest" worker program, where only the adults can enter the country, make any childern born to them a native of the home country with a "Special Birth Certificate" that is spelled out by a treaty agreement.

A "Special birth certificate" would require amending the Constitution. The 14th Amendment makes anyone born on US soil a citizen.
 
Old 01-02-2007, 03:06 PM
 
3,020 posts, read 23,079,930 times
Reputation: 2686
Default Then just do it..............

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hatless Wonder View Post
This is America where the national language is English and ONLY English.

A "Special birth certificate" would require amending the Constitution. The 14th Amendment makes anyone born on US soil a citizen.
Then just amend the Constitution. Problem ain't going to go away. That's what the Amendment process is for. The quicker the better. About like a snake, cut the head off first, deal with the rest of the wiggling parts next.

Most countries worth a **** value their citizenship and control who is allowed to be granted it and what the process involved will be. Gaining citizenship by a form of illegal birthing is just another form of theft that they have been engaged in at many levels.

Call a spade a spade, if it is illegal, they should never be in a position to gain by twisting or end running the rules.
 
Old 01-02-2007, 03:31 PM
 
4,275 posts, read 7,889,300 times
Reputation: 1552
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nunya_ View Post
I'm sick and tired of this country being given over to the illegals.... tired of everybody, including, and especially the government, catering to them and their their annoying language... tired of listening to piped in radio stations at the stores IN SPANISH!!! Makes me wonder what country I'm living in! Anyone know a place in the US where people speak English?
Here's a thought: Just whistle a tune and walk down the boulevard.

I live in Houston, and that city gets a lot of illegal immigrants. I don't notice any negatives in quality of life. Heck, I can still order food from restaurants for legal and illegal immigrants (I know a tiny speck of Spanish).

As for an answer to your question, there are so many English-only rural areas in the north U.S. that it would be too bothersome to name them all.
 
Old 01-03-2007, 12:43 AM
 
Location: FL
1,318 posts, read 5,303,050 times
Reputation: 910
Nunya - HELL YEAH!!!!!!!!! RIGHT ON!!!!!!!

Gizmo - have you ever been to Miami???!!! YES THERE ARE PEOPLE - OLD
PEOPLE - WHO HAVE BEEN HERE FOREVER AND CANNOT SPEAK THE FREAKIN LANGUAGE!!!!!!!!!!!

And what is wrong with NATIONAL PRIDE?????????!!!!!!!!!!
That's what our soldiers have DIED for!!!!!!!!!!!
Sorry, but your liberal attitude on this particular subject has made my blood boil!!!!!!!!!

And you contradicted yourself when you said your ancestors came over knowing no English, but learned...
YOU MISSED THE WHOLE POINT OF WHAT BASICALLY EVERYONE ON HERE IS SAYING!!!
If you come here LEGALLY, fine.
But ASSIMILATE!!!!!!!!!! LEARN/SPEAK ENGLISH!!!!!!!

It absolutely INFURIATES me to NO END that (as someones else so acurately stated) the commies & liberals have KISSED ASS & CATERED to these criminals!!!!

YES THEY ARE CRIMINALS!!!!!!! ILLEGAL!!! ILLEGAL!!! DO YOU UNDERSTAND THE DEFINITION OF THE WORD ILLEGAL????????!!!!!!!!

Ok-enough before I pass out...

And by the way, I don't particularly like the Spanish language! It tends to grate on my nerves! Just my opinion since you gave yours. I like Creole & Island/African languages & Asian/Indian languages/accents. And speaking of accents, Brit type (Aussi etc though Irish are neat!) accents REALLY get on my freakin nerves!!! I love English, but OUR English!!!
I don't actually like the "romance" languages - don't like the sound.
I guess Latin's ok - sounds creepy...

Last edited by elfyum; 01-03-2007 at 12:54 AM..
 
Old 01-03-2007, 04:15 AM
 
Location: Bay Area, CA
28,188 posts, read 43,469,993 times
Reputation: 18605
Quote:
Originally Posted by elfyum View Post
Nunya - HELL YEAH!!!!!!!!! RIGHT ON!!!!!!!

Gizmo - have you ever been to Miami???!!! YES THERE ARE PEOPLE - OLD
PEOPLE - WHO HAVE BEEN HERE FOREVER AND CANNOT SPEAK THE FREAKIN LANGUAGE!!!!!!!!!!!
Yup, I've been to Miami a million times... hate it, but that has nothing to do with the immigration. I just can't stand the weather and flat scenery! Anyway, in case you haven't read my other posts, I live in a California town with 68% Latinos... so it's not like I'm ignorant or isolated from the situation.

Quote:
And what is wrong with NATIONAL PRIDE?????????!!!!!!!!!!
That's what our soldiers have DIED for!!!!!!!!!!!
Sorry, but your liberal attitude on this particular subject has made my blood boil!!!!!!!!!
Nothing wrong with National Pride, as long as you respect the other people in our country... of all races and nationalities. This isn't an issue of politics, just human kindness and consideration.

Quote:
And you contradicted yourself when you said your ancestors came over knowing no English, but learned...
Actually, that's not what I said. I said they DIDN'T learn English, which is why my grandparents spoke Yiddish & Polish/Russian with them... but the following generations did learn. And I'm sure some of my ancestors came over without all the "paperwork", since they were escaping mass murder in Europe (Holocaust and other attacks on European Jews). Of course it was much easier for my relatives, and all of you from Ireland & England who keep talking about how your ancestors came over legally... all they had to do was show up at Ellis Island, and say their name - more or less.

Quote:
YOU MISSED THE WHOLE POINT OF WHAT BASICALLY EVERYONE ON HERE IS SAYING!!!
If you come here LEGALLY, fine.
But [b]ASSIMILATE!!!!!!!!!! LEARN/SPEAK ENGLISH!!!!!!!YES THEY ARE CRIMINALS!!!!!!! ILLEGAL!!! ILLEGAL!!! DO YOU UNDERSTAND THE DEFINITION OF THE WORD ILLEGAL????????!!!!!!!!
I didn't miss the point, I'm just sick of hearing all the negative comments toward Hispanics and immigrants in general. And you missed my point, in that many of these "criminals" are simply trying to give their families a better life, and have no other way to achieve this goal. If you had to steal a loaf of bread to feed your family (no other option), would you - or would you let them starve because you didn't want to break the law?? You also missed my point about the difficulty of learning English, and how "CONSERVATIVES" (since you're going to generalize about liberals, without even knowing my affiliation) expect them to know it immediately. Anyway, if these discussions were kept about POLITICS, I wouldn't even get involved in the first place... and I'm not debating these threads anymore, just wanted to answer your direct comments to me.

P.S. You might want to calm down a bit, this isn't worth all the stress you're showing... I swear.
 
Old 01-03-2007, 05:25 AM
 
Location: Nth Degree
23 posts, read 71,421 times
Reputation: 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marks View Post
I feel for you. But the bad news? There is no place to escape in the USA, thanks to the liberals, communists, and our screwed up government. Sorry
[b]Time to Draw a "Line in the Sand"...[/B]
 
Old 01-03-2007, 12:33 PM
 
Location: Lots of sun and palm trees with occasional hurricane :)
8,292 posts, read 14,576,997 times
Reputation: 6980
Wow I missed this whole thing????
I would like to learn to speak Chinese. It sounds cute.
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