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Old 01-01-2007, 08:57 PM
 
597 posts, read 1,786,042 times
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Recently, the Educational Testing Service did a study and found that 45% of adult Americans cannot read or write at the high school graduate level, and nearly half of those scored at a literacy rate below that of a high school dropout. Disturbing, yes? Even more disturbing was the recent statement by the Educational Testing Service (the people who administer the SAT):

"If we adjust the mean scores for US adults under the age of 65 to exclude all foreign born adults as well as native-born blacks and hispanics then the mean prose and quantitative scores of the remaining US adults (Asian, and white, native-born) would rise to 288, ranking the US second highest--tied with Finland and Norway--on the prose scale and fifith highest on the quantitative scale..."

Another recent study found that US immigrants scored 16 points below the average immigrant in other nations. Which, seems to suggest that immigrants are dragging down the average US test score. Where is the true crisis? Is it with our education system or is it with our immigration system??? What does this mean when immigrants now account for "virtually all of the national increase in public school enrollment over the last 2 decades?" In 2005 there were 10.3 million school-age children from immigrant families in the US.

Our future doesn't quite look as bright when you start observing the numbers. Now, recognize that these studies don't specify where the immigrants are coming from, but obviously the vast majority of immigrants in this country are hispanic. Now, it is my opinion that America needs be more specific about who we are allowing to emigrate to this country. Why would we want to let in people who are already in poverty and cannot contribute income tax revenue to the country? Many non-western countries do not allow you to become a citizen unless you have a certain amount of money or are in a highly skilled occupation. This makes too much sense. Why can't our government adopt this sort of a policy? We don't only need a border fence, we need a complete overhaul of our immigration policy. Period.
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Old 01-01-2007, 09:24 PM
 
Location: Old Town Alexandria
14,506 posts, read 23,180,936 times
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wow. That's upsetting. You are right they need an overhaul but what can they do?.
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Old 01-02-2007, 12:11 AM
 
597 posts, read 1,786,042 times
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IMO we need a temporary moratorium on immigration for at least a couple years to secure the border and know who's coming into this country. Then, I think we need to make sure that EVERYONE has had a thorough background check, is well versed in American culture, pledges FULL allegiance to this country (not dual-citizenship), and has command over the English language. We need to end automatic citizenship for anchor-babies. Last, but not least, we shouldn't be allowing people into this country unless they are capable of making a reasonable income to live so they can contribute to our economy. That doesn't seem unreasonable to me.
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Old 01-02-2007, 01:06 AM
 
Location: Navarre, Florida
327 posts, read 173,477 times
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Extremely interesting information...unfortunately, politicians cater to immigrants because of the large number of votes involved. That's one of the reasons that I probably won't vote for Guilani, if he runs, because he's very lenient regarding illegal immigrants. You have mentioned one of my priorities when it comes to the 2008 elections...who will be intolerant of illegal immigrants? I sincerely doubt it will be Clinton or Obama...from what I've seen. This is one issue that should be of the utmost importance to all Americans...Democrats/Republicans/Libertarians/etc., especially after seeing those statistics.
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Old 01-02-2007, 01:32 AM
 
597 posts, read 1,786,042 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kimbercuddles View Post
Extremely interesting information...unfortunately, politicians cater to immigrants because of the large number of votes involved. That's one of the reasons that I probably won't vote for Guilani, if he runs, because he's very lenient regarding illegal immigrants. You have mentioned one of my priorities when it comes to the 2008 elections...who will be intolerant of illegal immigrants? I sincerely doubt it will be Clinton or Obama...from what I've seen. This is one issue that should be of the utmost importance to all Americans...Democrats/Republicans/Libertarians/etc., especially after seeing those statistics.
The funny thing is that hispanics as a group currently only comprise of 6% of the vote--not as much as one would think. Trying to cater to the illegal immigrants is a mistake if a politician believes it will help them with the hispanic vote. If amnesty is provided, it would be much closer to 15-20%, which the majority votes Democrat, and that is why Republican politicians should be scared rather than embrace any sort of amnesty. You mention Guiliani being lenient, but what about McCain's record on the issue--OMG!!! Some of his statements give me the chills. He helped spearhead Bush's guest worker program, so if that is any indication... But, I have to agree this is the biggest issue aside from Iraq. Clinton or Obama's stances are unclear to me now, but several credible studies have shown the vast majority of immigrants vote democrat, including hispanics, so if anything it would help them in the long run if amnesty was given. In Pat Buchanan's book, State of Emergency, he quotes a recent poll that found Americans would elect a 3rd party candidate for president if that person's platform was solely based on securing the border, beating out both the Dems and GOP. Seems obvious how the average American feels. Now if we could only get the morons in DC to get a clue...

Last edited by WazzuCoop21; 01-02-2007 at 02:11 AM..
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Old 01-02-2007, 02:11 AM
 
Location: Navarre, Florida
327 posts, read 173,477 times
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You said it! There are so many things involved in being President that I respect anyone who holds that office...even if it's a martian. Talk about politics. McCain is not even on my list of people to vote for. I might even vote for Clinton before McCain...no...just kidding. I just don't understand McCain at all. It makes sense now...Kerry and McCain being buddies.

I'm going to have to read that book, 'State of Emergency'. Sounds interesting.

I wish that Bush could see that most Americans don't want a tolerant border policy...we want people to follow the rules and personally, I believe most people would like the illegals sent back. I would. It's nothing personal; rules are meant to be enforced. No Amnesty.
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Old 01-02-2007, 09:44 AM
 
Location: Journey's End
10,189 posts, read 24,462,979 times
Reputation: 3826
Of course you know that nearly all of your ideas are on the books for immigration, but for legal immigration, except perhaps for what you refer to as anchor-babies.

So the biggest issue is the idea of a moratorium and how to implement one. i wonder who in DC is open for a serious discussion on how illegal immigration is affecting some areas of the country. As I said in that other thread, here our population has been largely Hispanic for centuries so it doesn't appear to affect the community negatively, if at all. I do know in NYC immigration has played havoc in the health and education systems, but NY hasn't taken it on, just reports it, because they've never been able to control illegal immigration. People fly into LaGuardia on visitor's visas, and disappear into the fabric of their given communities.

So, again, moratorium. I actually like this idea! Liberal or no!

Quote:
Originally Posted by kdizzle View Post
IMO we need a temporary moratorium on immigration for at least a couple years to secure the border and know who's coming into this country. Then, I think we need to make sure that EVERYONE has had a thorough background check, is well versed in American culture, pledges FULL allegiance to this country (not dual-citizenship), and has command over the English language. We need to end automatic citizenship for anchor-babies. Last, but not least, we shouldn't be allowing people into this country unless they are capable of making a reasonable income to live so they can contribute to our economy. That doesn't seem unreasonable to me.
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Old 01-02-2007, 10:32 AM
 
Location: Bothell, Washington
454 posts, read 636,690 times
Reputation: 187
Quote:
Originally Posted by kdizzle View Post

"If we adjust the mean scores for US adults under the age of 65 to exclude all foreign born adults as well as native-born blacks and hispanics then the mean prose and quantitative scores of the remaining US adults (Asian, and white, native-born) would rise to 288, ranking the US second highest--tied with Finland and Norway--on the prose scale and fifith highest on the quantitative scale..."
Here is this old guys very controversial and incomplete take on this situation.

America is a country of 100% immigrants (yes, best history shows that even the indians migrated here). But this problem seems to be a recent (historically speaking) phenomenon. What has changed?

Immigrants who came from other countries were escaping something less, to gain something more. They came to be American.... not -American: Italian-American, Mexican-American etc. The knew that English was our official language and to succeed they needed to learn the language.

Now we have a culture where we make it too easy to live here without learning english. We separate people into Hyphen's and they group together where they can share their language. In decades past to get this culture you would go to Chinatown in SF, or Little Italy in New York, but these were not the norms.

Also some cultures almost require a lack of education to be accepted. I know this is going to be controversial, but have you have ever heard a group of black youths (you know, African-American's) talking? Hard to understand? Dare I say speaking Ebonics? If another black youth were to join the group who spoke english well, they would most likely be ostracized by the others.

In other words, we have lower our expectation that to be successful you should learn to read and write proper english, learn math and get a good education. Those who do this in the current culture will go far. Those who don't will be left behind.

I read and hear people saying that the divide between the rich and the poor is getting wider, so shame on the rich guy. I think the problem may be that the divide between the english literate and the illiterate is creating a two class system in the US.

Personally I blame much of the on the political correct movement that I believe has harmed America in ways that only a distant future will totally reveal.
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Old 01-02-2007, 10:41 AM
 
Location: Colorado
10,017 posts, read 16,692,551 times
Reputation: 2086
It is simple, we are TOO NICE!!! When you are that nice, you tend to get walked on. People need to stop having their hearts bleed for those coming to america illegally if they have no interest in adapting to our ways. Simple as that. They all say "How do we know they are not adapting?" Well actions speak louder than words. And all I hear in spanish.
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Old 01-02-2007, 11:31 AM
 
Location: Springfield, Missouri
2,814 posts, read 11,893,647 times
Reputation: 2000001281
We have some of the strictest and tightest immigration policies in the world. It is now very, very difficult for a foreigner to come to America and become a citizen, even if married to an American. We are considered one of the toughest countries to immigrate to....
Yet...
All you have to do is get a coyote to get you across the border and you're home free, get free hospital care, free education, free services, and even mortgage programs aimed at you as an illegal.
What's wrong with this picture?
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