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Old 05-19-2008, 09:04 PM
 
335 posts, read 1,027,812 times
Reputation: 146

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[quote=ArizonaBear;3818356]And remember there is no 'Hispanic' race------it is an artificial political label only.

I have known several people who looked stereotypically 'Mexican' (Mestizo) who were referred to as 'race traitors' due to them not speaking Spanish.

Never mind that none of the above were even any variety of Hispanic.

Too; Spanish is also a 'White mans' language------it was forced onto the indigenous peoples here in the New World by Cortez and Co. 500 years ago.[/quote]
True. I agree 100%
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Old 05-19-2008, 09:33 PM
 
Location: Mesa, Az
21,144 posts, read 42,061,062 times
Reputation: 3861
[quote=DD70;3818506]
Quote:
Originally Posted by ArizonaBear View Post
And remember there is no 'Hispanic' race------it is an artificial political label only.

I have known several people who looked stereotypically 'Mexican' (Mestizo) who were referred to as 'race traitors' due to them not speaking Spanish.

Never mind that none of the above were even any variety of Hispanic.

Too; Spanish is also a 'White mans' language------it was forced onto the indigenous peoples here in the New World by Cortez and Co. 500 years ago.[/quote]
True. I agree 100%
And; remember that today's Indian based Hispanics as a group have embraced Spanish with a vengeance.

Who conquered whom, rhetorically speaking?
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Old 05-19-2008, 11:13 PM
 
Location: California
3,172 posts, read 6,743,533 times
Reputation: 336
Quote:
Originally Posted by ArizonaBear View Post
Please re-read my post; DD70:



Those MEChA types to which I refer to are nothing but trouble------their stupidity may wind up hurting any person who looks like a Mestizo-------whether Anglo, Hispanic, or any other race/ethnicity.

Translation: some extremist Blacks, Anglos, etc. may decide to hurt any Latino looking person.......the term is 'backlash'

MEChA=KKK=Black Panthers.
I don't agree with comparing MeCha and the Black Panthers to the KKK.

MeCha is a Chicano movement, not a Mexican national movement, although it isn't very prominent at all. They don't have the power to cause very much trouble, and they're not even armed as far as I know.
But still, latino issues go way beyond just immigration.

MeCha and the Black panthers were American minority groups, that formed because they had their back against the wall. They were both formed at a time when the social climate was a lot worse than it is now.

Pretty much, they started off to defend themselves in a tough time, adopting radical ideals, going to the extreme left.

The ideals seem crazy now, but at the time it was understandable. It was the 60s!

In my opinion, MeCha was a good thing back then, and served its purpose of unifying Mexican-Americans and helping establish and identity for Chicanos.

But to me, all the Aztlan talk is embarassing, and is a turn off. Makes me take them less seriously now.




However, while Black panthers and Mecha were started for self defense, and promoted racial pride and radical ideals (again, this was in the 60s when people of color had it REALLY bad!), The KKK on the other hand is a vigilante group that wasn't started out for self defense or because they were an abused minority. The opposite..they started out of hate, and the KKK was created for the purpose of intimidating and killing people they didn't like, especially Blacks.

They all have racial idealogies, but they can't be compared.
A lot of people like to use those comparisons so they look like they are battling racism in their anti-latino sentiment, but thats not the case.
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Old 05-20-2008, 07:11 AM
 
Location: Mesa, Az
21,144 posts, read 42,061,062 times
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For the record: there were a few 'Hispanics' who were vicious White supremacists in St Bernard Parish, La. about 50 years ago-------Leander H Perez comes to mind.

He was a member of the White Citizens Council and was even excommunicated from the Catholic Church for his views.

So; yes, some North American 'Hispanics' have had ties with the KKK, etc.
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Old 05-20-2008, 07:21 AM
 
Location: Washington DC
5,922 posts, read 8,050,760 times
Reputation: 954
Quote:
Originally Posted by macmeal View Post
If you've got a 700 mile fence on a 1500 mile border, instead of 1500 miles available to the coyotes, now 800 miles is available. While the coyotes are heading for the "hole in the fence", the Border Patrol will be doing likewise.
700 miles of border that's fenced, is significantly harder to cross than it was before it was fenced....this means the enforcement can be concentrated on the remaining unfenced sections of the border.
As soon as the Border Patrol stops patrolling that 700 mile fence, even my dog can dig under it and the coyote can cut it. You get all 1500 miles, plus the ocean shoreline up 1000 miles either side of the fence, you come look me up.


Quote:
Originally Posted by macmeal View Post
PS..If you're interested, I can go on to explain how locking your doors and windows at night MAY keep MOST burglars out of your house....even though a FEW may still come in through the roof vents. You'll still get burglars, but not NEARLY as many, if you just do the "door and window" thing.
I actually do that (it works better than a gun). I've found it only really works when you get the entire perimeter secure. Locking the front door, while leaving the back open isn't smart. Even the dog can figure that one out.
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Old 05-20-2008, 07:42 AM
 
Location: Pinal County, Arizona
25,100 posts, read 39,197,274 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rlchurch View Post
As soon as the Border Patrol stops patrolling that 700 mile fence,
Ah - here is the thing - they are not going to stop patrolling.
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Old 05-20-2008, 08:59 AM
 
Location: Bora Bora: Vava'u.
738 posts, read 1,881,411 times
Reputation: 558
It is NOT racist to call these people "illegal aliens."

"Illegal aliens" is the only term used in the federal laws and regulations to describe criminals (and they ARE criminals) who come illegally into our country. They are not illegal immigrants, they are not undocumented immigrants, they are not migrant workers, and they are not day laborers - they are ILLEGAL ALIENS.
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Old 05-20-2008, 09:20 AM
 
8,978 posts, read 16,531,721 times
Reputation: 3020
Quote:
Originally Posted by amc760 View Post
I don't agree with comparing MeCha and the Black Panthers to the KKK.

MeCha is a Chicano movement, not a Mexican national movement, although it isn't very prominent at all. They don't have the power to cause very much trouble, and they're not even armed as far as I know.
But still, latino issues go way beyond just immigration.

MeCha and the Black panthers were American minority groups, that formed because they had their back against the wall. They were both formed at a time when the social climate was a lot worse than it is now.

Pretty much, they started off to defend themselves in a tough time, adopting radical ideals, going to the extreme left.

The ideals seem crazy now, but at the time it was understandable. It was the 60s!

In my opinion, MeCha was a good thing back then, and served its purpose of unifying Mexican-Americans and helping establish and identity for Chicanos.

But to me, all the Aztlan talk is embarassing, and is a turn off. Makes me take them less seriously now.




However, while Black panthers and Mecha were started for self defense, and promoted racial pride and radical ideals (again, this was in the 60s when people of color had it REALLY bad!), The KKK on the other hand is a vigilante group that wasn't started out for self defense or because they were an abused minority. The opposite..they started out of hate, and the KKK was created for the purpose of intimidating and killing people they didn't like, especially Blacks.

They all have racial idealogies, but they can't be compared.
A lot of people like to use those comparisons so they look like they are battling racism in their anti-latino sentiment, but thats not the case.
Good post, and well-stated. Just for the sake of argument, though, I'll quibble with one point. The KKK, it's my understanding, was begun in an atmosphere of fear and a sense that a vanquished South was under threat of "losing its civilization"....I believe the KKK was originally an attempt to "preserve society" as they understood it.

As a Catholic myself, and being in an interracial marriage and a multi-racial family, it's certainly not my desire to in any way "praise" or promote the KKK...and I'm sure if they met ME, they wouldn't approve of me, EITHER.

Yet to say their main purpose was simply "killing and hatred" is just a little simplistic. It's my understanding that they were formed in a beaten and vanquished society, one whose "time was over", and who saw blacks, Jews, Catholics, and "yankees" as the ones who would 'take over', unless they were stopped. To stop them, it's true that the KKK resorted to the most shameful and despicable examples of violence, hatred, etc. Truly a shameful chapter in the long and violent history of the US. Even more shameful is that they seem to have had a certain degree of public support right up until recent times. That's probably the hardest part for decent people to realize, that murderous thugs could supposedly be accepted by those around them as "harmless".

It's true that there really aren't any very good comparisons between the KKK, and the Black Panthers or MEChA....probably, I'd guess, because the old Confederacy (where the KKK was born) wasn't really a modern "First World" society...it was more like a Third World society, with a Third World social structure.

But groups promoting interracial violence, hatred, and the like, comparable to the KKK, DO exist, elsewhere in the world, even to this day. Most are based on the "fear and loathing" toward anyone who's seen as 'different'....or as a possible threat to the 'status quo'.
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Old 05-20-2008, 09:24 AM
 
8,978 posts, read 16,531,721 times
Reputation: 3020
Quote:
Originally Posted by rlchurch View Post
As soon as the Border Patrol stops patrolling that 700 mile fence, even my dog can dig under it and the coyote can cut it. You get all 1500 miles, plus the ocean shoreline up 1000 miles either side of the fence, you come look me up.


I actually do that (it works better than a gun). I've found it only really works when you get the entire perimeter secure. Locking the front door, while leaving the back open isn't smart. Even the dog can figure that one out.
Not only have I learned an awful lot about illegals and fences....I've also learned more than I ever thought I'd learn, about dogs. Thanks for the "eye-opener".
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Old 05-20-2008, 10:07 AM
 
Location: Washington DC
5,922 posts, read 8,050,760 times
Reputation: 954
Quote:
Originally Posted by macmeal View Post
Good post, and well-stated. Just for the sake of argument, though, I'll quibble with one point. The KKK, it's my understanding, was begun in an atmosphere of fear and a sense that a vanquished South was under threat of "losing its civilization"....I believe the KKK was originally an attempt to "preserve society" as they understood it.
I think the interesting question is what value was the "society" that the KKK was "attempting to preserve." While I think that one could agree for the purpose of discussion to that as their motivation, we should then explore whether what they were trying to preserve was in an of itself so vile and evil that even if they had adopted peaceful means of "preservation" it would still be an abomination.
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