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Old 02-16-2008, 05:37 PM
 
Location: San Diego North County
4,800 posts, read 7,689,216 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by osomd1 View Post
ha,ha 30k years ago in spain, that would put you in the neantherthal period,
no such dna is available, you better talk about demolition derbie's, spitting contests, and such
Wrong, wrong, and again--wrong.

Through the study of mitochondrial DNA, geneticists are able to conclusively determine where family lines originated by tracing the material back to a single maternal donor.

FYI, Neanderthals and Modern Humans lived side by side for thousands of years.

All people today are classified as Homo sapiens sapiens--i.e., the sapiens variety of the species Homo sapiens. The first began to appear nearly 200,000 years ago in association with technologies not unlike those of the early Neandertals (think Acheulian and Mousterian tool technologies). It is now clear that they did not come after the Neandertals but were their contemporaries. However, it is likely that both modern humans and Neandertals descended from Homo heidelbergensis.

Compared to the Neandertals and other late archaic Homo sapiens, modern humans generally have more delicate skeletons. Their skulls are more rounded and their brow ridges generally protrude much less. They rarely have the occipital buns found on the back of Neandertal skulls. They also have relatively high foreheads and pointed chins.

The first fossils of early modern humans to be identified were found in 1868 in a 27,000-23,000 year old rock shelter site near the village of Les Eyzies in southwestern France. They were subsequently named the Cro-Magnon people. They were very similar in appearance to modern Europeans. Males were 5 feet 4 inches to 6 feet tall, 4-12 inches taller than Neandertals. Their skeletons and musculature generally were less massive than the Neandertals. The Cro-Magnon had broad, small faces with pointed chins and high foreheads. Their cranial capacities were up to 1590 cm3, which is relatively large even for people today.

Modern anthropologists are divided on the fate of the Neanderthal. Many believe that they were eventually replaced by modern humans with no interbreeding between the species. But others believe that the Neanderthal was simply assimilated into the modern human gene pool. The hypothesis has been set forth within the academic community that red hair is a Neanderthal trait. We'll see how well it holds up as the uncontaminated extraction of mtDNA from fossilized remains becomes the norm rather than the exception.

Personally, I would tend to believe the model which suggests assimilation rather than total destruction of the race.

This is the wrong forum to make unsubstantiated anthropological statements. Ask anybody. The resident anthropologist will get'cha every time.

BTW, spell check is your friend.

Last edited by Kele; 02-16-2008 at 05:52 PM..
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Old 02-16-2008, 06:01 PM
 
Location: Live in VA, Work in MD, Play in DC
694 posts, read 1,983,384 times
Reputation: 249
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kele View Post
Without giving notice to Mexico?

Perhaps you may want to do a little more research, especially in the case of the State of Texas.

The Mexican government begged Americans to come in and settle Texas and to "take care of the Apache problem" because they themselves were unable to erradicate the native populations.

Once the Americans had subdued the Apaches, the Mexican government began to come in and take the lands that the Americans had purchased and attempted to kick them out of present day Texas.

The Texans were unwilling to comply.
I was actually referring more to the California regions and eastwards, which had many fur trapper settlements all over.

You never did deny that American settlers in Texas still raised themselves as Americans instead of that of their adopted new homeland.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kele View Post
As far as any other "Mexican" lands in present day U.S. territory, 90% was nothing more than ranch land, few cities and no infrastructure. Mexico took the lands from Spain and "owned" it for less than 25 years.

Mexicans were no kinder (and in most instances less so) to the Native Americans in this country than the European invaders.

As a matter of fact, I would venture to bet that there are few descendents of any original inhabitants left anywhere on the face of this Earth. Call it man's inhumanity to man, but I doubt that you could talk any sovereign nation into giving land back simply because you don't agree with the way they obtained it.

I seriously doubt that any sovereign nation would transfer lands to another because of how it was obtained. I was answering the OP's question as to how Mexico would feel. I'm pretty sure they were at least a little mad.
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Old 02-16-2008, 06:12 PM
 
Location: San Diego North County
4,800 posts, read 7,689,216 times
Reputation: 3010
Quote:
Originally Posted by tenken627 View Post
I was actually referring more to the California regions and eastwards, which had many fur trapper settlements all over.

You never did deny that American settlers in Texas still raised themselves as Americans instead of that of their adopted new homeland.

I seriously doubt that any sovereign nation would transfer lands to another because of how it was obtained. I was answering the OP's question as to how Mexico would feel. I'm pretty sure they were at least a little mad.
Mexico's so-called ownership of California ended at modern day Monterey Bay. The rest of California belonged to the Russians as did Alaska. Cry me a river for Russia's loss of its pre-USA lands as well, or does only Mexico warrant your pity?

And then you can tell me why full-grown Americans would want to become citizens of the "homeland" that used them to kill the Native American tribes they themselves could not subdue and when they had done as was asked of them by the Mexican government, they kicked (or attempted to kick) them out of their homes?

Mexico's "donation" of lands to the U.S. netted them over ten million dollars, a very tidy sum in the 1800's. It went a long way toward salving their "anger." They only b*tch and moan about it now because the infrastructure put into place by Americans has made the land so much more valuable.
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Old 02-16-2008, 06:46 PM
 
Location: Live in VA, Work in MD, Play in DC
694 posts, read 1,983,384 times
Reputation: 249
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kele View Post
Mexico's so-called ownership of California ended at modern day Monterey Bay. The rest of California belonged to the Russians as did Alaska. Cry me a river for Russia's loss of its pre-USA lands as well, or does only Mexico warrant your pity?
Oh please.

Mexico's so-called ownership ended at the present day boundary of California and Oregon. The recognized border by the international community was the 42 parallel. Above this was Oregon Country. Russia never even had claims into present day California.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kele View Post
And then you can tell me why full-grown Americans would want to become citizens of the "homeland" that used them to kill the Native American tribes they themselves could not subdue and when they had done as was asked of them by the Mexican government, they kicked (or attempted to kick) them out of their homes?
Do you think that Mexico wanted to deport American immigrants when they invited them to come to Texas?

"Let's invite Americans to take care of the Native Americans and then let's kick them out after the Native Americans are gone?" That was the plan?

Maybe they thought American immigration was a solution to the Native American problem, but realized afterwards the fact that most Americans refused to assimilate into Mexican culture and follow Mexican laws.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kele View Post
Mexico's "donation" of lands to the U.S. netted them over ten million dollars, a very tidy sum in the 1800's. It went a long way toward salving their "anger." They only b*tch and moan about it now because the infrastructure put into place by Americans has made the land so much more valuable.
You seriously think Mexico wished to sell their lands for 10 million dollars? The Mexican-US War had nothing to do with it? If someone robbed you of your car at gun point, then decided to give you $10,000 for it, your anger would be "salved"?

Cry a river for either Russia or Mexico? Please don't get ahead of yourself. I actually wish to deport all illegal immigrants if possible, but I also understand the social complexities of the situation.
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Old 02-16-2008, 07:20 PM
 
1,474 posts, read 2,016,557 times
Reputation: 457
Quote:
Originally Posted by osomd1 View Post
ha,ha 30k years ago in spain, that would put you in the neantherthal period,
no such dna is available, you better talk about demolition derbie's, spitting contests, and such
Dunce hat again. Do your historical research before you jump of the cliff.

Phylogenetic analysis of Neanderthal mitochondrial DNA leads to a date for the common ancestor of the neanderthal and modern humans at around 465,000 to 600,000 years ago (four times the estimate for the common ancestor of all modern humans) (Disotell, 1999). The common ancestor of the mtDNAs of all living humans lived about 170,000 years ago (Hofreiter et al, 2001). All hominid remains of the last 100,000 years belong to one of these two species (Roe in Waechter, 1990). Ancient remains from a Spanish cave site (La Sima de los Huesos), are a transitional form between Homo erectus and Neanderthals.
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Old 02-16-2008, 07:33 PM
 
126 posts, read 245,133 times
Reputation: 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by ProLogic View Post
Dammit blacknight! Your screwing me over here! . She claims she never said any of what you said.
It's a done deal, BARACK will be our president, and he'beat Mcain by a large
margin, gone are the days when an ilitarate, alcoholic president ruins it for all
of us, the hispanics and asians are going to join the wagon at the general
election consolidating our current majority in the primaries, war against islam is
going to end, Barack will find common ground with Bin Laden, and we'll be safer, kkk will have to go under!!!!!
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Old 02-16-2008, 08:03 PM
 
8,973 posts, read 14,615,066 times
Reputation: 2983
Quote:
Originally Posted by tenken627 View Post
Oh please.

Mexico's so-called ownership ended at the present day boundary of California and Oregon. The recognized border by the international community was the 42 parallel. Above this was Oregon Country. Russia never even had claims into present day California.



Cry a river for either Russia or Mexico? Please don't get ahead of yourself. I actually wish to deport all illegal immigrants if possible, but I also understand the social complexities of the situation.
Not only did Russia claim California, it built at least one fort here, Fort Ross, a replica of which is still standing. The Russian River was named after that claim. The Russians used to transport Aleuts from Alaska, maroon them on the Channel Islands for the season, where they were expected to harvest seal skins before being picked up and transported home by way of Sitka, capitol of "Russian America" at that time...

Many countries have illegal immigrants, but none anywhere near the sheer numbers as we now have from Mexico (approximately ten percent of the whole COUNTRY has simply LEFT..and moved HERE), and nowhere in history has a population simply "moved in" on another one without bloodshed and violence. So far, the patience of the American population has been truly remarkable...about the worst we do is make a few unkind remarks and threats. Pretty mild stuff, in the context of the world.

As far as the silly and dubious "claims" to the land by these new arrivals, that's an entirely separate issue. We don't recognize "ethnic rights" in this society (aside from a few laws relating to Indian rights), and the "ethnic" claim being made is simply ridiculous. A number of "Mexicans" of various races were here in the Southwest when Mexico lost it...and their DESCENDANTS are now full-fledged American citizens (I'm married to one). But what THIS has to do with the recent arrival from Michoacan or Jalisco, I can't imagine. What "claim" do these people have that makes any sense? Their ancestral country LOST this land, after they THEMSELVES took it away from Spain (illegally) just a few years prior. So who has "clean hands" in all this? Who gets to "cast the first stone", or "call the kettle black"?....I fail to see any claim the illegals have to the land, anymore than present-day Russians, Spaniards, or anyone ELSE has (which is NONE). The British, the French, the Dutch, and the Swedes ALL had claims to parts of the present-day US. They lost it....and now they're OUT.

Last edited by macmeal; 02-16-2008 at 08:24 PM..
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Old 02-16-2008, 08:11 PM
 
Location: Mesa, Az
21,148 posts, read 36,622,458 times
Reputation: 3785
Quote:
Originally Posted by tenken627 View Post
I was actually referring more to the California regions and eastwards, which had many fur trapper settlements all over.

You never did deny that American settlers in Texas still raised themselves as Americans instead of that of their adopted new homeland.




I seriously doubt that any sovereign nation would transfer lands to another because of how it was obtained. I was answering the OP's question as to how Mexico would feel. I'm pretty sure they were at least a little mad.
Mexico not only was defeated by a more powerful nation (the USA); the Spaniards subjugated the indigenous Aztecs, etc. 250 years prior.

Besides: Guatemala was also part of post 1821 Mexico yet I do not hear squat from the latter country wanting that territory back.

Methinks what Mexico wants is our First World Southwest because of the Gringo built infrastructure-------never mind that Mexico is much more likely to fracture further and at least its northern tier of states will devolve to the USA.
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Old 02-16-2008, 08:12 PM
 
Location: Helena, Montana
2,010 posts, read 2,042,585 times
Reputation: 780
Quote:
Originally Posted by osomd1 View Post
It's a done deal, BARACK will be our president, and he'beat Mcain by a large
margin, gone are the days when an ilitarate, alcoholic president ruins it for all
of us, the hispanics and asians are going to join the wagon at the general
election consolidating our current majority in the primaries, war against islam is
going to end, Barack will find common ground with Bin Laden, and we'll be safer, kkk will have to go under!!!!!
You're such an Obvious troll, I really have no idea why the moderators are still allowing your white people bashing rants. As a white person myself, you should consider yourself lucky you have a keyboard to hide behind.
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Old 02-16-2008, 09:03 PM
 
Location: Live in VA, Work in MD, Play in DC
694 posts, read 1,983,384 times
Reputation: 249
Quote:
Originally Posted by macmeal View Post
Not only did Russia claim California, it built at least one fort here, Fort Ross, a replica of which is still standing. The Russian River was named after that claim. The Russians used to transport Aleuts from Alaska, maroon them on the Channel Islands for the season, where they were expected to harvest seal skins before being picked up and transported home by way of Sitka, capitol of "Russian America" at that time...
You know what? I never knew about Fort Ross. It looks VERY interesting. I'll look it up after I get back home. Thank you for sharing that.

I agree that current Mexicans have no legitimate "claims" to the American Southwest, I was merely answering the question on how Mexicans would feel if part of their country was overrun by immigrants who didn't wish to assimilate into Mexican culture.
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