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Old 05-26-2008, 08:10 AM
 
Location: Mesa, Az
21,148 posts, read 36,611,035 times
Reputation: 3785

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Quote:
Originally Posted by KevK View Post
What you are seeing here is really a Republican vs Republican issue fight. One wing of the Republican Party- big business- is very much in favour of McCain's position on this issue. Another wing- the old line conservative "law and order" types are very much opposed to amnesty. So far the old line has been winning this fight at the Federal and even more at the state level as many states have passed laws making life harder for illegals and immigrants in general even if they are legal (my wife now has to renew her drivers license every year vs every 7 for me a citizen). But my guessing is that this battle is about to turn because no matter who wins, amnesty will happen. It is probably about the only thing McCain will get done with a more heavily Democract Congress if he does win. If Obama wins, it is almost a sure thing but the big difference is Obama is more in favour of penalties for businesses that hire future illegals while McCain is not.
Well; this Old School Liberal would qualify as a one of the above as well

Not so sure that any 'blanket' amnesty will occur-------those fools flying the Mexican flag at their illegal immigrant 'rights' rallies 2 years ago turned many fence sitters against any sort of amnesty (myself included) for the above lawbreakers.
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Old 05-26-2008, 08:11 AM
 
2,257 posts, read 3,453,413 times
Reputation: 469
dubya proved in the last two elections that the GOP candidate can pander to the hispanic vote (legal or ill) without alienating the base. Like Bush straight talkin John comes from a border state and will do the same thing to win.

Democrats still dont get it


Quote:
Originally Posted by KevK View Post
That is a good point. Many of us Democrats have long favoured an amnesty for the Mexicans together with new laws that ensure that any future fence jumpers will not feel welcome in the USA. It is the GOP and their base that have made an issue out of attacking the Mexicans.
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Old 05-26-2008, 08:58 AM
 
3,712 posts, read 5,708,999 times
Reputation: 1284
Quote:
Originally Posted by KevK View Post
Chicago has excellent public transportation that runs 24/7. You don't even need a car in the city and in the suburbs only to drive to the store and such.
Ha! Provided you are wearing a Kevlar vest and toting an AK-47, that is.
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Old 05-26-2008, 09:04 AM
 
3,712 posts, read 5,708,999 times
Reputation: 1284
Quote:
The measure, which would reimburse hospitals for the cost of treating illegal immigrants, has broad support from both parties, including from some immigration hardliners and Democratic presidential candidate Sen. Barack Obama (Ill.).
Of course they all support this program. If it was not for the nonstop infusion of taxpayer dollars, many of these hospitals burdened with the cost of providing 'free' healthcare to illegals would be forced to close. Then the American people might actually realize just how bad a problem this is. And we can't let THAT happen, now can we?
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Old 05-26-2008, 09:17 AM
 
Location: southern california
55,237 posts, read 72,392,137 times
Reputation: 47449
they are all pro illegal
its really not about illegal is it? its about labor busting isn't it?
did we really think we could influence DC without an organized labor movement?
the only player in DC now is corperate america.
no union presence to speak of.
we manufactor baloney and then we eat it and then we believe it.
we are not a global economy, there is only 1 economy, the american.
and its being sliced up like a pie and served up.
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Old 05-26-2008, 10:23 AM
 
93 posts, read 297,280 times
Reputation: 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by bryan61 View Post
dubya proved in the last two elections that the GOP candidate can pander to the hispanic vote (legal or ill) without alienating the base. Like Bush straight talkin John comes from a border state and will do the same thing to win.

Democrats still dont get it
The key to courting the latino vote (not to agglomerate all latinos into one monolithic group, but rather a generalization), seems to have been recognizing that most American latinos are as opposed to illegal immigration as whites, if not more so! There is very little love lost between latinos born here and those who enter legally or illegally in my experience.

Republicans shrewdly recognized this in 2004. Fortunately for them, they shanghaied the US Supreme court in 2000 to buy some illegal strategizing time to figure this out by legal reelection time. AND THEY STILL BLEW IT!!! Mind-boggling.
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Old 05-26-2008, 11:02 AM
 
Location: US
3,070 posts, read 3,334,721 times
Reputation: 1619
What you're saying is the truth. He absolutely went against what many would like to see. Who is going to pay for this new program? You and me--as if we're not paying enough already. Amnesty just will not work. I realize you can't deport the millions already here, but amnesty will just invite more and more and more, and then they will be granted amnesty too. I personally like what Arizona and Oklahoma have done which is working.

If amnesty is given, in my opinion, we will be lost. I am more than happy to give legal immigrants their rights and benefits. However, with regard to helping illegals who are on the take, as Roy Slade said herein, get to work slaves. The little bit of taxes illegals pay, if they do pay any, do not begin to compensate for the medical, welfare, education benefits they receive for themselves and the many, many children they're having. And if you think education is expensive, try ignorance. We and our children and their children and so on will be paying for the illegals forever. How much of illegal is okay? If they can do it and get away with it, why should Americans be punished for the "little bit of illegal" crimes they commit. Would tax evasion be a little bit of passable illegal? How about DUI's? I would rather vote for Howdy Doody than these three Bozos. How discouraging!


Quote:
Originally Posted by 18Montclair View Post
Since I and most democrats favor helping illegals to some degree, Obama did as I would want.

McCain on the other hand, went against his constituents and his party which is fine for us, but sucks for them.

Last edited by carolac; 05-26-2008 at 11:05 AM.. Reason: typo
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Old 05-26-2008, 11:18 AM
 
Location: US
3,070 posts, read 3,334,721 times
Reputation: 1619
Here is one article about 70 hospital emergency rooms closing due to treatment of the uninsured. Please note the comment that, because of the emergency rooms closing, those in parts of California may have to drive another 10-15 miles and stand behind someone in line who is not paying for treatment who expects the same services as you. One county in California estimates the cost of treating illegal aliens is $340 million annually.

Illegal Aliens Drive Another Hospital To Closure : Diggers Realm

At San Joaquin General Hospital, of the 2300 babies born there in 2003, 70% were anchor babies. Twice as many illegal aliens seek medical treatment at hospitals than the US population. You have to scroll past the first part of the article.

FAIR: Illegal Immigration and Public Health

I just don't know how much longer we can keep paying for this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by andreabeth View Post
Of course they all support this program. If it was not for the nonstop infusion of taxpayer dollars, many of these hospitals burdened with the cost of providing 'free' healthcare to illegals would be forced to close. Then the American people might actually realize just how bad a problem this is. And we can't let THAT happen, now can we?
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Old 05-26-2008, 12:42 PM
 
178 posts, read 299,599 times
Reputation: 149
Quote:
Originally Posted by carolac View Post
What you're saying is the truth. He absolutely went against what many would like to see. Who is going to pay for this new program? You and me--as if we're not paying enough already. Amnesty just will not work. I realize you can't deport the millions already here, but amnesty will just invite more and more and more, and then they will be granted amnesty too. I personally like what Arizona and Oklahoma have done which is working.

If amnesty is given, in my opinion, we will be lost. I am more than happy to give legal immigrants their rights and benefits. However, with regard to helping illegals who are on the take, as Roy Slade said herein, get to work slaves. The little bit of taxes illegals pay, if they do pay any, do not begin to compensate for the medical, welfare, education benefits they receive for themselves and the many, many children they're having. And if you think education is expensive, try ignorance. We and our children and their children and so on will be paying for the illegals forever. How much of illegal is okay? If they can do it and get away with it, why should Americans be punished for the "little bit of illegal" crimes they commit. Would tax evasion be a little bit of passable illegal? How about DUI's? I would rather vote for Howdy Doody than these three Bozos. How discouraging!

Excellent post!
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