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Old 05-23-2008, 03:47 PM
 
Location: Maryland
15,181 posts, read 10,289,255 times
Reputation: 2984

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Macmeal, OldTex and Camping! have hit the nail on the head. I can't rep macmeal and Camping, but I did rep OldTex. Kudos!
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Old 05-23-2008, 03:54 PM
 
220 posts, read 249,855 times
Reputation: 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar;
Macmeal, OldTex and Camping! have hit the nail on the head. I can't rep macmeal and Camping, but I did rep OldTex. Kudos!
Thank you for the kudos Benicar!
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Old 05-23-2008, 04:19 PM
 
3,369 posts, read 7,605,024 times
Reputation: 1590
Macmeal: I support amnesty and a path to legal residency/citizenship for everyone who is in the United States illegally UNTIL newer, looser, and more user-friendly immigration standards are put into place. Once we allow for the amount of legal immigration which the economy demands (right now we only allow legal immigration to satisfy a small percentage of the demand we have for workers; thus illegal immigrants come and satisfy the leftover demand), we then start to enforce those new regulations. Right now, the system is so broken that I think it should be discarded completely. As for the legal versus illegal distinction, my point is that once immigration laws are loosened and it is actually feasable for most immigrants to come legally, there will be MUCH, MUCH less of a "legal versus illegal" problem. Thus, LEGAL immigrants would be applying to the same jobs to which born and raised Americans would be applying, and I see nothing wrong with that. I am internationally-minded, not a protectionist.

OldTex: quite frankly, yes, I would be willing to go against principle on this issue because immigrants (no matter legal or illegal) are good for the economy and good for this country in general.

Camping: yes, I am serious. Don't insult my education; I graduated in the very top of my HS class, magna *** laude at a prestigious liberal arts university, and am now studying at a prestigious law school. My ideas have little to do with my education, so don't insult it. I already responded to the "identity theft" argument in another post of mine. To summarize, I agree that identity theft is a crime that matters and that much less of it would occur if immigrating to this country legally weren't so difficult, time-consuming, and expensive. And yes, if a test is so hard that most people are failing it (yet these people do very well in school, despite what the results of that test may say), make the test easier. Because legal immigration is simply too hard, make it easier too!
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Old 05-23-2008, 04:23 PM
 
Location: Des Moines, IA
1,744 posts, read 4,980,867 times
Reputation: 1156
Quote:
Originally Posted by macmeal View Post
Interesting that NOBODY on this thread has made the SLIGHTEST suggestion that this might be an example of "anti-Semitism"....remarkable (at least, I never saw such an alegation). Some day, this SAME story may also be seen NOT to be "anti-" anybody, except "anti-the presence of illegal workers".

I can't really read you, are you suggesting this raid was anti-semetic or that there might be people out there who think this was anti-semetic?
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Old 05-23-2008, 05:01 PM
 
Location: Maryland
15,181 posts, read 10,289,255 times
Reputation: 2984
Quote:
Originally Posted by crisp444 View Post
Macmeal: I support amnesty and a path to legal residency/citizenship for everyone who is in the United States illegally UNTIL newer, looser, and more user-friendly immigration standards are put into place. Once we allow for the amount of legal immigration which the economy demands (right now we only allow legal immigration to satisfy a small percentage of the demand we have for workers; thus illegal immigrants come and satisfy the leftover demand), we then start to enforce those new regulations. Right now, the system is so broken that I think it should be discarded completely. As for the legal versus illegal distinction, my point is that once immigration laws are loosened and it is actually feasable for most immigrants to come legally, there will be MUCH, MUCH less of a "legal versus illegal" problem. Thus, LEGAL immigrants would be applying to the same jobs to which born and raised Americans would be applying, and I see nothing wrong with that. I am internationally-minded, not a protectionist.

OldTex: quite frankly, yes, I would be willing to go against principle on this issue because immigrants (no matter legal or illegal) are good for the economy and good for this country in general.

Camping: yes, I am serious. Don't insult my education; I graduated in the very top of my HS class, magna *** laude at a prestigious liberal arts university, and am now studying at a prestigious law school. My ideas have little to do with my education, so don't insult it. I already responded to the "identity theft" argument in another post of mine. To summarize, I agree that identity theft is a crime that matters and that much less of it would occur if immigrating to this country legally weren't so difficult, time-consuming, and expensive. And yes, if a test is so hard that most people are failing it (yet these people do very well in school, despite what the results of that test may say), make the test easier. Because legal immigration is simply too hard, make it easier too!
Being an “educated” person, I am sure you realize there is a HUGE difference between education or book smarts and common sense. I am also educated, and I also graduated in the top of my high school class, as well as graduated (with honors) from a graduate program from one of the most prestigious universities in the country. That being said; all of this means absolutely zilch without “common sense.”

I once had a friend; also highly-educated, who gave her sick infant adults Formula 44 cough medicine. If I had to choose between being “educated” and having common sense, I’d vote for common sense any day of the week.
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Old 05-23-2008, 05:38 PM
 
8,187 posts, read 7,924,544 times
Reputation: 2837
Quote:
Originally Posted by crisp444 View Post
Macmeal: I support amnesty and a path to legal residency/citizenship for everyone who is in the United States illegally UNTIL newer, looser, and more user-friendly immigration standards are put into place. Once we allow for the amount of legal immigration which the economy demands (right now we only allow legal immigration to satisfy a small percentage of the demand we have for workers; thus illegal immigrants come and satisfy the leftover demand), we then start to enforce those new regulations. Right now, the system is so broken that I think it should be discarded completely. As for the legal versus illegal distinction, my point is that once immigration laws are loosened and it is actually feasable for most immigrants to come legally, there will be MUCH, MUCH less of a "legal versus illegal" problem. Thus, LEGAL immigrants would be applying to the same jobs to which born and raised Americans would be applying, and I see nothing wrong with that. I am internationally-minded, not a protectionist.

OldTex: quite frankly, yes, I would be willing to go against principle on this issue because immigrants (no matter legal or illegal) are good for the economy and good for this country in general.

Camping: yes, I am serious. Don't insult my education; I graduated in the very top of my HS class, magna *** laude at a prestigious liberal arts university, and am now studying at a prestigious law school. My ideas have little to do with my education, so don't insult it. I already responded to the "identity theft" argument in another post of mine. To summarize, I agree that identity theft is a crime that matters and that much less of it would occur if immigrating to this country legally weren't so difficult, time-consuming, and expensive. And yes, if a test is so hard that most people are failing it (yet these people do very well in school, despite what the results of that test may say), make the test easier. Because legal immigration is simply too hard, make it easier too!
You insult the quality of your own education when you suggest to dumb down curriculum to suit the lowest common denominator. You are also suggesting to the same with the law, a rather unusual suggestion from a future lawyer -- unless you plan on defending mafiosa types?

At anyrate, do you refute the basic sovereignity of the United States? Do you propose we become a nation without borders? No doubt this would have little to no effect on you in your chosen profession as a lawyer, but you do realize that you would be dooming the blue collar worker into unemployment? They are unable and yes unwilling to work for subpar wages that illegals are willing to take. As is so often the case others will pay the price for those locked in their ivory towers feel good politics.
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Old 05-23-2008, 06:48 PM
 
8,972 posts, read 10,715,410 times
Reputation: 2950
Quote:
Originally Posted by El Rhino View Post
I can't really read you, are you suggesting this raid was anti-semetic or that there might be people out there who think this was anti-semetic?
Not at all...I'm just surprised SOMEBODY else hasn't said this. I'm suggesting that, as the Postville operation was an effort by Lubavitcher Jews, that had they been a more 'thin skinned' group, it would be easy to blame any 'attack' on them (as in hassling their illegal help) as 'attacking them as people' (i.e., anti-Semitism)...I'm not suggesting this at ALL, I'm just surprised SOMEBODY hasn't come up with this. There are certainly many more 'nutty' allegations made all the time...many of them ending up as ACLU lawsuits...

After all, speaking out against illegal immigration is frequently blamed on having an "anti-Hispanic" position....and speaking out against suicide bombers is FREQUENTLY blamed on having an "anti-Islamic" bias....
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Old 05-23-2008, 06:58 PM
 
Location: Mesa, Az
21,157 posts, read 26,630,274 times
Reputation: 3668
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
Being an “educated” person, I am sure you realize there is a HUGE difference between education or book smarts and common sense. I am also educated, and I also graduated in the top of my high school class, as well as graduated (with honors) from a graduate program from one of the most prestigious universities in the country. That being said; all of this means absolutely zilch without “common sense.”

I once had a friend; also highly-educated, who gave her sick infant adults Formula 44 cough medicine. If I had to choose between being “educated” and having common sense, I’d vote for common sense any day of the week.
Indubitably
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Old 05-23-2008, 08:36 PM
 
3,369 posts, read 7,605,024 times
Reputation: 1590
Being anti-immigrant or anti-"illegal" isn't common sense. It's an opinion/position, and plenty of people agree with the opinions that I have. I could just as easily say that it's common sense that we need immigrants and that our government is at fault for not fixing a broken immigration system in which far fewer immigrants are allowed legal entry into this country than needed by the economy. If anything, it's common sense to provide for people who live in our communities, who work in our stores and whose children attend our schools and will become future productive members of our society.
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Old 05-23-2008, 08:43 PM
 
3,369 posts, read 7,605,024 times
Reputation: 1590
Quote:
Originally Posted by camping! View Post
You insult the quality of your own education when you suggest to dumb down curriculum to suit the lowest common denominator. You are also suggesting to the same with the law, a rather unusual suggestion from a future lawyer -- unless you plan on defending mafiosa types?

At anyrate, do you refute the basic sovereignity of the United States? Do you propose we become a nation without borders? No doubt this would have little to no effect on you in your chosen profession as a lawyer, but you do realize that you would be dooming the blue collar worker into unemployment? They are unable and yes unwilling to work for subpar wages that illegals are willing to take. As is so often the case others will pay the price for those locked in their ivory towers feel good politics.
When the law is broken, fix it. I don't think we need to "dumb down" anything because that implies that the system is "smart" and "works" as it is. In my opinion, it doesn't work, and thus it needs to be fixed. Before you suggest that I am viewing the world from an ivory tower, please realize that I have grown up around many immigrants (and seen their struggles) and I have volunteered in English literacy programs aimed at teaching Mexican/Central American immigrants language and social skills - I have talked to these people about WHY they chose to come to the US illegally instead of legally, done research myself, and have come to the conclusion that the system is broken and needs to be fixed. I'm not just parrotting liberal ideas taught by academics locked in ivory towers.
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