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Old 05-23-2008, 08:37 PM
 
Location: Mesa, Az
21,148 posts, read 36,611,035 times
Reputation: 3785

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Quote:
Originally Posted by crisp444 View Post
When my Mediterranean ancestors arrived to this country, they had no papers. When my Norwegian great-grandmother arrived around 1900, she didn't have papers either. The difference between them and "illegal" immigrants in 2008? My ancestors arrived and were considered "legal" because immigration law accepted pretty much any able-bodied immigrant from Europe. What exactly did the Germans, Irish, Italians, Spanish, and Portuguese do right that modern-day illegal immigrants are doing wrong? The similarities are striking.
Try again.

Circumstances change as time goes on.

Bottom line; the indigenous people here in the present New World in 1492 were simply not strong enough to keep out the invaders, both Anglo and Hispanic.

Difference is that we as a nation are strong enough in 2008 to repel any potential trespassers------despite questionable politicians like Bush who would like to sell us down the river.
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Old 05-23-2008, 09:51 PM
 
8,180 posts, read 11,032,296 times
Reputation: 2873
Quote:
Originally Posted by crisp444 View Post
When my Mediterranean ancestors arrived to this country, they had no papers. When my Norwegian great-grandmother arrived around 1900, she didn't have papers either. The difference between them and "illegal" immigrants in 2008? My ancestors arrived and were considered "legal" because immigration law accepted pretty much any able-bodied immigrant from Europe. What exactly did the Germans, Irish, Italians, Spanish, and Portuguese do right that modern-day illegal immigrants are doing wrong? The similarities are striking.
Don't kid yourself....there were immigration laws in place, only then they were called quotas. Also, once an immigrant landed on Ellis Island, it was no guarantee of admittance. They had to pass not only a physical (which checked for everything from tuberculosis to venereal diseases) but also mental capacity. The immigrant was also suppossed to have a certain amount of cash on their person as well as a skill or trade plus a place to go with people waiting for them. And if said immigrant didn't pass any of the above requirements they were shipped back to their country of origin. Not exactly the immigration free for all you described.

It must also be considered that throughout the 1800s-1920(ish) there were a lot less Americans and a lot more land available (of course at the expense of the Native Americans). Also, there was no social support for those that 'fell through the cracks'. An immigrant literally was in a position of sink or swim. Quite unlike today.
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Old 05-24-2008, 06:07 AM
 
Location: Des Moines, IA
1,744 posts, read 6,484,882 times
Reputation: 1206
Quote:
Originally Posted by crisp444 View Post
I have seen too many examples of "illegals""vastly improving communities to sit back and watch this happen in the name of enforcing outmoded and non-workable law.


Start naming them.




Like I said earlier, I'm willing to bet the farm that when this raid took place, there were more high-fives between the locals than tears shed for the illegals or worries about how they're going to manage without them.
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Old 05-24-2008, 10:12 AM
 
8,973 posts, read 14,610,630 times
Reputation: 2983
Quote:
Originally Posted by crisp444 View Post
When my Mediterranean ancestors arrived to this country, they had no papers. When my Norwegian great-grandmother arrived around 1900, she didn't have papers either. The difference between them and "illegal" immigrants in 2008? My ancestors arrived and were considered "legal" because immigration law accepted pretty much any able-bodied immigrant from Europe. What exactly did the Germans, Irish, Italians, Spanish, and Portuguese do right that modern-day illegal immigrants are doing wrong? The similarities are striking.
What they "did right"....(just like the Mexicans who came at that time did) was that they arrived in a nation that was badly in need of new 'bodies'..plenty of them, able to fill hundreds of thousands of jobs requiring a strong back and not much else. They had the foresight...(or maybe it was just 'luck')...to arrive here at a time when the VAST majority of the population didn't have...and didn't NEED..much formal education.

At that time in history, America was "developing". Big plans, grand schemes, and all sorts of ideas about "taming the wilderness". "reclaiming the desert", and the beauty of "smokestack industries" as a sign of prosperity, were combined with VERY little social 'safety net', and VERY few 'environmental laws'. You don't see any difference between that and TODAY? I sure do.

What you're alluding to is the old standard "MEChA" bromide that states "YOUR ancestors came here,.." etc etc etc. That's true....as I've often said, "MY...(or "our")..ancestors DID come here. THey 'took their lumps', they 'sank or swam', they were treated rather 'brusquely' by the 'natives', and somehow, they made it, because the low-tech, 'manual labor...farming' economy of that time had a NEED for them. Meanwhile, Mr. "MEChA", YOUR ancestors did NOT come here...they stayed home..and today, there's no more NEED for huge waves of poorly-educated immigrants. WE can't even accommodate our own poorly-educated LOCALS. We now have a high-tech society. It requires a high-tech work force. Those who can't 'make it' get resentful.

There is a HUGE difference between "NEEDING" masses of immigrants, as we once did....and "Trying to find a PLACE for them", as we do now. We HAVE let in several MILLION of them, illegally. This hasn't resulted in gratitude, it's resulted in resentment. To think the answr is to admit still MORE of them, year after year, is absurd.

I had several relatives who worked on the construction of the Golden Gate Bridge. Last time I was there, they weren't hiring any construction workers. What did my ancestors do right, that I'm doing wrong? Why can't I get in on the action? Maybe, perhaps, because the Golden Gate Bridge is now built...and the need for people to build it has now passed. I can't get a job there, not because they "don't LIKE me", but because I'm not needed..
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Old 05-24-2008, 10:15 AM
 
8,973 posts, read 14,610,630 times
Reputation: 2983
Quote:
Originally Posted by camping! View Post
Don't kid yourself....there were immigration laws in place, only then they were called quotas. Also, once an immigrant landed on Ellis Island, it was no guarantee of admittance. They had to pass not only a physical (which checked for everything from tuberculosis to venereal diseases) but also mental capacity. The immigrant was also suppossed to have a certain amount of cash on their person as well as a skill or trade plus a place to go with people waiting for them. And if said immigrant didn't pass any of the above requirements they were shipped back to their country of origin. Not exactly the immigration free for all you described.

It must also be considered that throughout the 1800s-1920(ish) there were a lot less Americans and a lot more land available (of course at the expense of the Native Americans). Also, there was no social support for those that 'fell through the cracks'. An immigrant literally was in a position of sink or swim. Quite unlike today.
YEAH....what HE said....
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Old 05-26-2008, 08:14 AM
 
3,884 posts, read 8,755,426 times
Reputation: 1472
In reply to:[quote=crisp444;3862912]I never said that I don't care about identity theft. My solution to the problem is making it much, much easier to immigrate to this country legally in the first place; if it weren't so hard, maybe some illegal immigrants wouldn't have to turn to identity theft to falsify documents in order to obtain work. I also am against Oklahoma-style laws that make it illegal to hire or rent to an illegal immigrant.
My reply:
I wish more people would start their compasion at home. If we are not a strong country first, we can not help anyone else. This is the first thing they tell you as a mother. Take care of yourself so you can take care of your family. We as a country have no business helping anyone else out until we get our house in order. We have starving American families without health insurance, proper housing, etc. It's amazing to me that so many people walk over a poor American in need to get through the door to help someone who came here illegally. The American in need might have aquired his new found poverty from someone who stole his idenity, or took his job for 5 dollars less. There are bleeding hearts everywhere, but if we cannot stand on our feet as Americans, we have no business helping others. We need to take care of our countries problems for once!! Perfect example: Katrina. We are spread a little too thin. It's like a mom with too much on her plate. She can't really take care of her family anymore, she's too busy donating her time to the community. Priorities are really messed up in this country. Why is it so hard to address our own problems? Illegal means "Illegal". I have not found that food is getting any cheaper because I can't afford it? Nor has housing? Things don't get easier for American's who can't survive. I don't think making things easier for people to take my job is going to solve my problem. It would solve a lot of problems the mexicans were having. And if my house was in order, I would then try and help. But our house is not in order. It deserves our attention and helping people get into our country easier can just be put on the back burner. Our military can't even get 1/2 the respect from 1/2 the country nor the health care that the illegals are getting right now!!! We really need to prioritize. Our health care sucks, housing is in the toilet, and the economy is getting stomped by foreign trade, and your really worried about making it easier for illegal immigrants to stay in our country!!! I think you need to get your priorities straight, other things should come first.:con fused: Why is it so hard for Americans to take care of themselves. This should be a new thread!
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Old 05-26-2008, 08:15 AM
 
3,884 posts, read 8,755,426 times
Reputation: 1472
We need a good Nany! Call in the Nanies!!!!!
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Old 05-26-2008, 08:36 AM
 
Location: Mesa, Az
21,148 posts, read 36,611,035 times
Reputation: 3785
[quote=twiggy;3884944]In reply to:
Quote:
Originally Posted by crisp444 View Post
I never said that I don't care about identity theft. My solution to the problem is making it much, much easier to immigrate to this country legally in the first place; if it weren't so hard, maybe some illegal immigrants wouldn't have to turn to identity theft to falsify documents in order to obtain work. I also am against Oklahoma-style laws that make it illegal to hire or rent to an illegal immigrant.
My reply:
I wish more people would start their compasion at home. If we are not a strong country first, we can not help anyone else. This is the first thing they tell you as a mother. Take care of yourself so you can take care of your family. We as a country have no business helping anyone else out until we get our house in order. We have starving American families without health insurance, proper housing, etc. It's amazing to me that so many people walk over a poor American in need to get through the door to help someone who came here illegally. The American in need might have aquired his new found poverty from someone who stole his idenity, or took his job for 5 dollars less. There are bleeding hearts everywhere, but if we cannot stand on our feet as Americans, we have no business helping others. We need to take care of our countries problems for once!! Perfect example: Katrina. We are spread a little too thin. It's like a mom with too much on her plate. She can't really take care of her family anymore, she's too busy donating her time to the community. Priorities are really messed up in this country. Why is it so hard to address our own problems? Illegal means "Illegal". I have not found that food is getting any cheaper because I can't afford it? Nor has housing? Things don't get easier for American's who can't survive. I don't think making things easier for people to take my job is going to solve my problem. It would solve a lot of problems the mexicans were having. And if my house was in order, I would then try and help. But our house is not in order. It deserves our attention and helping people get into our country easier can just be put on the back burner. Our military can't even get 1/2 the respect from 1/2 the country nor the health care that the illegals are getting right now!!! We really need to prioritize. Our health care sucks, housing is in the toilet, and the economy is getting stomped by foreign trade, and your really worried about making it easier for illegal immigrants to stay in our country!!! I think you need to get your priorities straight, other things should come first.:con fused: Why is it so hard for Americans to take care of themselves. This should be a new thread!
As you stated.
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Old 05-26-2008, 08:38 AM
 
Location: Fort Worth/Dallas
11,878 posts, read 32,917,927 times
Reputation: 5539
Quote:
Originally Posted by crisp444 View Post
Being anti-immigrant or anti-"illegal" isn't common sense. It's an opinion/position, and plenty of people agree with the opinions that I have. I could just as easily say that it's common sense that we need immigrants and that our government is at fault for not fixing a broken immigration system in which far fewer immigrants are allowed legal entry into this country than needed by the economy. If anything, it's common sense to provide for people who live in our communities, who work in our stores and whose children attend our schools and will become future productive members of our society.
Being anti-illegal is not an opinion. It's against the law to be here illegally.
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Old 05-26-2008, 09:15 AM
 
411 posts, read 699,832 times
Reputation: 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by Synopsis View Post
Being anti-illegal is not an opinion. It's against the law to be here illegally.
Yes, indeed.
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