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Old 05-25-2008, 05:35 PM
 
Location: Mesa, Az
21,148 posts, read 36,715,651 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amc760 View Post
I think he's using his somewhat high position to get a free ride to American citizenship and get away from the mess that is Mexican drug politics.

I don't think theres any more of a chance of Mexico having a civil war over the drug wars than the U.S. had a chance of having a civil war over the mafia wars.
And I hope you are correct.
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Old 05-25-2008, 05:45 PM
 
47,576 posts, read 58,949,633 times
Reputation: 22174
Quote:
Originally Posted by amc760 View Post
you seriously believe Mexico could go to war with the United States??
20 years ago did you think you'd be hearing the things out of Mexico that you hear about today? Mexico, at least the northern states is deteriorating very fast. How do you turn around the exodus of it's police forces? Who would choose to become a policeman or a reporter in Mexico?

One big factor in all this is the vacuum, the breakdown of the society itself caused in large part from massive emigration. Massive migration results from social injustice and instability but it leads to only more massive migration and more social injustice and more instability.

Many children were basically abandoned by remittance parents. Now they are coming of age, but they did not grow up working alongside parents, seeing their parents, being raised by them. They too will head north for the money because a remittance economy does not build, it makes people all the more dependent on remittance money.
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Old 05-25-2008, 05:51 PM
 
47,576 posts, read 58,949,633 times
Reputation: 22174
Quote:
Originally Posted by amc760 View Post
I think he's using his somewhat high position to get a free ride to American citizenship and get away from the mess that is Mexican drug politics.

I don't think theres any more of a chance of Mexico having a civil war over the drug wars than the U.S. had a chance of having a civil war over the mafia wars.
IF this is really just about drug cartels then you might be right. I don't think here in the USA many of us really know what is going on. We're being told it's just some thing between the drug cartels and that's why the police are being decapitated and fleeing for asylum, and entire police forces are walking away from their jobs.

Just like we're being told the Mexican military was sent to stop the violence yet the violence has increased very much since they arrived.

You can hear just about any thing that makes more sense. Some say this is a civil war which is why so many police and big shot businessmen are being killed and kidnapped. Some say it's a battle between the federales and the state and local police forces, some say the military was sent but is just hiding out, visiting the border brothels, or protecting the drug cartels.

At any rate, it seems that cars can drive up, dump out corpses and heads and no one saw or heard anything. Either the people are really too cowardly to speak out or they are complicit in this. There never seems to be many arrests of those doing all these killings and who really can figure out what the Mexican army is doing.
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Old 05-25-2008, 05:52 PM
 
Location: California
3,172 posts, read 6,009,876 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by malamute View Post
20 years ago did you think you'd be hearing the things out of Mexico that you hear about today? Mexico, at least the northern states is deteriorating very fast. How do you turn around the exodus of it's police forces? Who would choose to become a policeman or a reporter in Mexico?

One big factor in all this is the vacuum, the breakdown of the society itself caused in large part from massive emigration. Massive migration results from social injustice and instability but it leads to only more massive migration and more social injustice and more instability.

Many children were basically abandoned by remittance parents. Now they are coming of age, but they did not grow up working alongside parents, seeing their parents, being raised by them. They too will head north for the money because a remittance economy does not build, it makes people all the more dependent on remittance money.
The problems associated with drug trafficking, which is due to the fact of Mexico being adjacent to the worlds biggest buyer of drugs (the U.S.) have been ongoing for many many many years.

I personally know many people who have been caught up in taht lifestyle. My parents have had friends killed over that lifestyle.

Its been around as long as Americans have been snorting cocaine.


The violence comes and goes. Just like in American cities', if a gang catches beef with another gang, your going to see the homicide rate jump.

Right now theres some thigns going on between the drug gangs in Mexico.

The fact that the Mexican government has taken big steps in weakening the Tijuana cartel has created a void in the top ranks of that gang. And as their position is getting weak, other gangs are trying to step in and take over.

This creates conflict, and a jump in violence along the border. Trust me..this stuff happens then dies down. then it happens again, then it dies down again. on and on and on and on
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Old 05-25-2008, 05:54 PM
 
47,576 posts, read 58,949,633 times
Reputation: 22174
Quote:
Originally Posted by amc760 View Post
The problems associated with drug trafficking, which is due to the fact of Mexico being adjactent to the worlds biggest buyer of drugs (the U.S.) have been ongoing for many many many years.

I personally know many people who have been caught up in taht lifestyle. My parents have had friends killed over that lifestyle.

Its been around as long as Americans have been snorting cocaine.


The violence comes and goes. Just like in American cities', if a gang catches beef with another gang, your going to see the homicide rate jump.

Right now theres some thigns going on between the drug gangs in Mexico.

The fact that the Mexican government has taken big steps in weakening the Tijuana cartel has created a void in the top ranks of that gang. And as their position is getting weak, other gangs are trying to step in and take over.

This creates conflict, and a jump in violence along the border. Trust me..this stuff happens then dies down. then it happens again, then it dies down again. on and on and on and on
I think if you really believed that "it's all America's fault" then you'd be all for a good solid fence -- just to protect your Mexico from the big bad USA.

As long as the border remains wide-open to any kind of illegal activity and contraband, this will not get better. There are those of course who do not want any hint of enforcement of that border.
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Old 05-25-2008, 05:59 PM
 
Location: California
3,172 posts, read 6,009,876 times
Reputation: 332
Quote:
Originally Posted by malamute View Post
IF this is really just about drug cartels then you might be right. I don't think here in the USA many of us really know what is going on. We're being told it's just some thing between the drug cartels and that's why the police are being decapitated and fleeing for asylum, and entire police forces are walking away from their jobs.

Just like we're being told the Mexican military was sent to stop the violence yet the violence has increased very much since they arrived.

You can hear just about any thing that makes more sense. Some say this is a civil war which is why so many police and big shot businessmen are being killed and kidnapped. Some say it's a battle between the federales and the state and local police forces, some say the military was sent but is just hiding out, visiting the border brothels, or protecting the drug cartels.

At any rate, it seems that cars can drive up, dump out corpses and heads and no one saw or heard anything. Either the people are really too cowardly to speak out or they are complicit in this. There never seems to be many arrests of those doing all these killings and who really can figure out what the Mexican army is doing.
A lot of what you are talking about here has to do with just a general corruption in the police force.

Its very similar to the early 20th century in New York, or Chicago. Cops are underpaid, and find it more lucrative to go corrupt and work for the "mafia".

Many of the cops you hear are turning up dead are cops who have gotten involved in things they shouludn't have.
A couple of years ago, the Mexican army was sent to baja california to disarm the police to investigate them for corruption. To see if they could link their guns to any organized crime-related shootings.

Every now and then you'll hear about a reporter getting killed, or a state official having his convoy shot upon. Or a Mexican celebrity Narcocorrido(mexican banda music about drug trafficking..kind of the equivalent to gangsta rap in the states) getting murdered.


But this stuff has been going on for decades.
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Old 05-25-2008, 06:01 PM
 
Location: California
3,172 posts, read 6,009,876 times
Reputation: 332
Quote:
Originally Posted by malamute View Post
I think if you really believed that "it's all America's fault" then you'd be all for a good solid fence -- just to protect your Mexico from the big bad USA.

As long as the border remains wide-open to any kind of illegal activity and contraband, this will not get better. There are those of course who do not want any hint of enforcement of that border.
how did I say it was America's fault? And how am I protecting Mexico?

Its actually pretty simple.

Theres a huge market for drugs in the United States, a huge demand, and there are people in Mexico who have the means to supply that demand.

Its not Americans and Mexicans, its drug users and drug suppliers.

You shouldn't get defensive, because as far as what it is, its pretty black and white.
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Old 05-25-2008, 06:08 PM
 
47,576 posts, read 58,949,633 times
Reputation: 22174
Quote:
Originally Posted by amc760 View Post
how did I say it was America's fault? And how am I protecting Mexico?

Its actually pretty simple.

Theres a huge market for drugs in the United States, a huge demand, and there are people in Mexico who have the means to supply that demand.

Its not Americans and Mexicans, its drug users and drug suppliers.

You shouldn't get defensive, because as far as what it is, its pretty black and white.
Drug addicts in the USA are actually the victims, but they are not the cause of Mexicans deciding to have their country be the drug dealing country of the world.

What about other countries? Why isn't Canada having this big breakdown and exploding violence? They share and even longer border and they aren't the big narco-cartels like Mexicans are. The reason is that Canada is a nation of laws. Generally Canadians respect our border laws, immigration laws, but Mexicans believe they are not obligated to abide by those laws. Just like it's rare to hear of a Canadian driving without a license and liability insurance, Mexicans don't believe they should be expected to obtain insurance.

Mexico has a big drug trafficking problem because it's corruption allowed it to gain a foothold very quickly. Mexico had a president -- Salinas de Gortari who was from a drug family, one brother was arrested for a number of crimes, another was found suffocated with a plastic bag over his head in an exclusive Mexican neighborhood.

Mexicans have felt superior all along when it came to drug trafficking, very often they would say that Americans being weak were easily addicted but the superior Mexicans would only get very very rich in selling drugs and drugs would harm Mexico in no way. Now we see where that smug attitude got them.
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Old 05-25-2008, 06:10 PM
 
47,576 posts, read 58,949,633 times
Reputation: 22174
Quote:
Originally Posted by amc760 View Post
You shouldn't get defensive, because as far as what it is, its pretty black and white.

If it's all that black and white and it's the USA's fault --- then maybe a street dealer should try using that excuse to a judge. "Well judge, it's not my fault at all that I was dealing drugs, there was this drug addict, and he wanted drugs so I just had no way out but to sell drugs."
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Old 05-25-2008, 06:37 PM
 
Location: California
3,172 posts, read 6,009,876 times
Reputation: 332
Quote:
Originally Posted by malamute View Post
Drug addicts in the USA are actually the victims, but they are not the cause of Mexicans deciding to have their country be the drug dealing country of the world.

What about other countries? Why isn't Canada having this big breakdown and exploding violence? They share and even longer border and they aren't the big narco-cartels like Mexicans are. The reason is that Canada is a nation of laws. Generally Canadians respect our border laws, immigration laws, but Mexicans believe they are not obligated to abide by those laws. Just like it's rare to hear of a Canadian driving without a license and liability insurance, Mexicans don't believe they should be expected to obtain insurance.

Mexico has a big drug trafficking problem because it's corruption allowed it to gain a foothold very quickly. Mexico had a president -- Salinas de Gortari who was from a drug family, one brother was arrested for a number of crimes, another was found suffocated with a plastic bag over his head in an exclusive Mexican neighborhood.

Mexicans have felt superior all along when it came to drug trafficking, very often they would say that Americans being weak were easily addicted but the superior Mexicans would only get very very rich in selling drugs and drugs would harm Mexico in no way. Now we see where that smug attitude got them.

Canada doesnt have a whole lot of jungles, last time I checked, where there are the ideal conditions to grow cocoa leaves, and also where it is dense enough to hide these operations.

Candada doesnt serve as the in between area between South America and the U.S. that Mexico does.

Regarding the part I bolded, what the hell are you talking about??!

Its funny, I was just filling you in on some facts, because I thought you were curious, but you took it way too personally. Not everything is Mexico vs. America.

Why would so called "superior mexicans" care where their "smug attitudes" got them? If by "superior mexicans" you mean drug dealers, then i don't think they'd care very much since theyre the ones causing the problems.

Like many people on this board, you are confusing the problems of Mexico with the people of Mexico. You seem to have an anti-Mexican attitude.

Somethigns go beyond your American nationalism, or thier Mexican nationalism. Its international crime, and theres people on BOTH sides that enable it.

Its not like Mexican people are crossing the border to stick a crack pipe in the mouth of Johnny the local paper delivery boy.
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