Immigrants melting into the pot as usual (Spanish, Americans, USA)

[ArizonaBear]

Originally Posted by malamute

If a group of Americans went illegally into Mexico and demanded services be provided them in English, waved their American flags, celebrated all the American holidays, and never bothered to learn Spanish, I'd say they weren't trying to assimilate either.

Let's ask the American Indians if it's always a guarantee that groups moving in will automatically assimilate. Assimilations requires that the new group learn the cultural values of the existing group and that is not always the case at all.

And; sordid as the history was between the above and the mostly White settlers of 500 years ago, let that serve as a warning that history could repeat itself-----especially with a traitor like Bush in charge.

Us Americans (of any race/ethnicity) could be the new American Indians and the illegal immigrants be the 'new' settlers.

The difference is we are still strong enough as a people to prevail----if we are allowed to.

[crisp444]

Originally Posted by malamute

If a group of Americans went illegally into Mexico and demanded services be provided them in English, waved their American flags, celebrated all the American holidays, and never bothered to learn Spanish, I'd say they weren't trying to assimilate either.

Let's ask the American Indians if it's always a guarantee that groups moving in will automatically assimilate. Assimilations requires that the new group learn the cultural values of the existing group and that is not always the case at all.

-Mexicans aren't demanding that services be provided to them in English [Businesses respond to that demand because its profitable, and I would do the same thing]
-Mexicans wave the Mexican flag in the US ["Gringos" living in Mexico often wave Old Glory on their homes/condos]
-Mexicans do tend to celebrate a few Mexican holidays while living in the US [Americans also tend to celebrate a few American holidays while living abroad]
-Mexicans are overwhelmingly NOT refusing to learn English [and some Americans living in Mexico are "refusing" to learn Spanish because they know that they live in resort towns where they can get service in English]

Mexicans are assimilating to life in the US whether you guys want to see it or not.

[StopGap]

Originally Posted by ArizonaBear

The difference is we are still strong enough as a people to prevail----if we are allowed to.

And the difference is also that we have "thunder sticks". Many of them.

[harborlady]

Gawd! They got taco sauce on my lasagna!!! Oh, wait, this aint so bad...

[ArizonaBear]

Originally Posted by crisp444

-Mexicans aren't demanding that services be provided to them in English [Businesses respond to that demand because its profitable, and I would do the same thing]
-Mexicans wave the Mexican flag in the US ["Gringos" living in Mexico often wave Old Glory on their homes/condos]
-Mexicans do tend to celebrate a few Mexican holidays while living in the US [Americans also tend to celebrate a few American holidays while living abroad]
-Mexicans are overwhelmingly NOT refusing to learn English [and some Americans living in Mexico are "refusing" to learn Spanish because they know that they live in resort towns where they can get service in English]

Mexicans are assimilating to life in the US whether you guys want to see it or not.

Are you referring to Mexicans who played by the rules and immigrated here legally or the lawbreakers who jumped the border and have not been caught------yet?

[cousinsal]

Originally Posted by crisp444

Nope. My first language is English, as I was born and raised in the United States; however, I sometimes choose to speak Spanish on the phone, at the mall, or at Latin American restaurants. I am fluent in both languages, and speaking Spanish doesn't mean that I'm any less American or any less assimilated.

It would mean you're not assimilated if you did not know English, which you do. You are able to get along and do business in America, because you speak English. You can't say someone is assimilated if they don't even know the language.

[Frenchman]

Pro-immigration folks are sorry [Moderator cut: language], lazy folks with slave owner mentality, who think their only way to climb the social ladder or live a decent life is exploiting poor peasants from Third World countries.

There is not a single positive side to mass immigration, neo slave trade.

Society structure doesn't expand, for new immigrants to climb, others would have to go down, or new people would have to come in. Slave migrants don't enlarge hierarchy, they push up lazy [Moderator cut: language] who otherwise would have stayed at the bottom.

[malamute]

Originally Posted by crisp444

-Mexicans aren't demanding that services be provided to them in English [Businesses respond to that demand because its profitable, and I would do the same thing]
-Mexicans wave the Mexican flag in the US ["Gringos" living in Mexico often wave Old Glory on their homes/condos]
-Mexicans do tend to celebrate a few Mexican holidays while living in the US [Americans also tend to celebrate a few American holidays while living abroad]
-Mexicans are overwhelmingly NOT refusing to learn English [and some Americans living in Mexico are "refusing" to learn Spanish because they know that they live in resort towns where they can get service in English]

Mexicans are assimilating to life in the US whether you guys want to see it or not.

Since when did waving your own country's flag (for whatever reason you would do such a thing while demanding citizenship in some other country), speaking your own country's language and celebrating all the holidays of the old country equal assimilation.

Someone posts that Mexicans are assimilating, someone else posts that speaking Spanish is assimilating when it's obviously not assimilating. Those American tourists living in English speaking enclaves are also not assimiliating, but most aren't insisting on being given Mexican citizenship.

If you go down into Mexico, enroll your kids in English speaking schools with American teachers hired to teach in them, keep eating the same foods you did back in the USA, wave the USA flag and celebrate all the American holidays --- would you really call that assimilation?

Maybe we first need to define what assimilation generally means.

[Neutre]

Originally Posted by malamute

someone else posts that speaking Spanish is assimilating

Malamute, did you even bother reading the explanations contained in the the same post at all?
Take a short time and read the respective posts. Nowhere will you find anybody saying that speaking Spanish is assimilating.
The statement "speaking Spanish doesn't mean you're not assimilated" is not the same as saying "speaking Spanish is assimilating".
Don't just pick a short line of some post and distort it, please.

[DD70]

Originally Posted by El Rhino

I just actually read the article and I do agree with the author that there is a double standard as far as people complaining about Mexicans with Mexican flags, celebrating Mexican holidays and so-on while it's perfectly ok for someone to say, have an Irish flag and celebrate St. Patrick's Day.

I'm very proud of my Anglo-Celtic heritage. I'm very into British music, British fashion and British culture. I've even got a Welsh dragon tattoo and Celtic crosses, but no one is ever going to question where my loyalties lie...and if they do, the fact that I've fought for this country should clear it up. Mexican-Americans should have that right as well. If I moved to another country, you can bet that I'll still be out grilling burgers, listening to some American music, drinking Coca-Cola and pulling for US sports teams.

Sometimes I think that those of us who are against illegal immigration need to pick and choose our battles better. Instead of arguing over who has a Mexican flag or prefers to speak Spanish, we need to focus on the issues that really matter like crime, social and economic impact, etc.

Excellent post!

Originally Posted by cousinsal

Excuse me? Of COURSE, it means you're not assimilated, IF you are speaking something other than English in the "public forum", whether it be school, a grocery store, any other kind of store, the court system, the hospital, etc.

Speaking the language is the biggest indicator of assimilation. Without that, you have nothing. You cannot be assimilated if you don't even understand what's going on around you, and need interpretation all the time, like you're a permanent tourist.

Whoa...hold on tiger, speaking in another language is a right everyone here has, it does not mean that one has not integrated into society it just means that they are more comfortable speaking in their native tongue when they are around others whom understand.
Often it is a huge misconception that if one hears another ndividual speaking in another language to automatically ASSume that that they do not know the language.
If you are reffering to those you feel or think do not know the language simply because they reply in another language is also ASSuming too much. I know plenty of folks around here that speak very limited English but understand the English language well enough to get their needs met, English is a hard language to pick up especially for adults and not everyone has the time to take ESL classes but at at least they try.

Originally Posted by crisp444

Nope. My first language is English, as I was born and raised in the United States; however, I sometimes choose to speak Spanish on the phone, at the mall, or at Latin American restaurants. I am fluent in both languages, and speaking Spanish doesn't mean that I'm any less American or any less assimilated.

Agreed, I am not hispanic and I speak Spanish fluently and feel it is a great advantage and if I feel that someone is uncomfortable speaking English due to a heavy accent or they get certain words mixed up I will speak to them in Spanish, geez what is the big deal folks? When I lived in Japan I was so lost (ex was military) I did not know the jist and was so thankful when others who knew a little English were polite enough to assist me in English! The same goes for vactionig in Mexico. Others are so pleasant about helping us "foreigners" out without making us feel shame and look at us here debating assimiliation and being nothing short of rude.

Originally Posted by ArizonaBear

And; sordid as the history was between the above and the mostly White settlers of 500 years ago, let that serve as a warning that history could repeat itself-----especially with a traitor like Bush in charge.

Us Americans (of any race/ethnicity) could be the new American Indians and the illegal immigrants be the 'new' settlers.

The difference is we are still strong enough as a people to prevail----if we are allowed to.

The New Native Americans? WOW! Such Paranoia! I seriously do not think we have to worry about being thrown onto the rez, forgetting our religion as well as cultural identity and forced to be slaves as we help these settlers build an empire that does not include us in the picture.