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Old 05-31-2008, 08:04 PM
 
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Asking for bilingual people is perfectly fine, but saying that you must speak Spanish as a "mother tongue" sounds pretty discriminatory to me, and it is probably illegal. Thankfully that isn't a common requirement.

 
Old 06-01-2008, 12:07 AM
 
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It does not matter if they state it or not, the job interviewer will clearly dsicriminate and there will never be anyway to prove it.
 
Old 06-01-2008, 02:14 AM
 
451 posts, read 235,959 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MiamiGringo View Post
Bilingual in Miami means "NO ANGLOS"

It is usually used as a simple way to discriminate against English speakers where the job does not require Spanish in any meaningful sense.

Manpower Miami takes it further and lists "Spanish as a Mother Tongue" on their requirements, meaning that regardless of one's fluency, if you weren't born to it, don't bother.

I don't know any other city in the US where the job and social discrimination is so blatant. It's getting impossible to live here.
This may be true if you're looking for labor work, but for professional employment some Spanish, is usually enough.
 
Old 06-01-2008, 12:09 PM
 
Location: Downtown Raleigh, NC
2,086 posts, read 6,813,877 times
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I am a second generation Miami native, non-hispanic white. I grew up with plenty of hispanic friends who had some relatives in their immediate family who did not speak fluent English, but all of my friends did. Many of them understood Spanish, but did not speak it well, or if they could speak it they chose not to outside of their family. So yes, there is assimilation taking place among everyday residents.

I think that business is where some of the broken bilingualism is happening. Many Latin businesses are based in Miami, and this is causing some of the chasm. They demand "bilingual" employees, but in many cases, this is a veil for "Spanish speaking" employees who may only know the bare basics of English.

Anyhow, a few real world experiences living in Miami:

I took Spanish classes in school. First through sixth grades I was taught by two Cuban ladies. I was learning Cuban Espanol, but didn't know there was a difference. In high school I took my obligatory two years of foreign language - Spanish, because I already had seis years under my belt. I soon realized that I was now learning Castilian Espanol, as many words and pronunciations were different. This was kind of confusing in some cases, even for me, and I always found Spanish class to be easy and enjoyed learning it.

Out in the real world, I am able to read and write Spanish much better than I can hold a conversation. There are many different "dialects" that are spoken in Miami. Someone from Cuba speaks much differently than someone from Argentina, and both are different from someone from El Salvador, for example. Then throw in the fact that often times people do not want to be bothered trying to communicate with someone who is not fluent, and you do not have an environment that fosters equal bilingualism. I am only now looking to finally become fluent, living in a place that does not require biligualism at all. The people that I have met outside of Miami are much more accepting of someone who is trying to communicate in Spanish but who isn't fluent. In Miami I actually had someone ask me (he was learning English), why I was not fluent in Spanish. People that I have dealt with in other places outside of Miami who are learning English or not very good at it always try very hard to communicate in English, and are extremely grateful if I am able to help them out in Spanish. There is a sense of entitlement in Miami, that is very much a turn off. The difference in attitude where I live now has inspired me.

The summer of 2001 I worked at a furniture store in an area that is considered by many on the Miami forum to be fully "bilingual" - Dadeland. The Latina general manager of the store told me and another non-Spanish-fluent person working there (who happened to be black) that we were not to even attempt to help someone who said they needed to speak Spanish. We worked on commission, so that was basically giving up our wage to someone else. Imagine how I felt when, on multiple occasions, my customers would insist on a Spanish speaker, and I would see them later conducting the sale in English with the bilingual coworker I handed them off to! I am sorry, but that is blatant discrimination, no matter how you spin it.

Also, Spanish seems to be the priority language in many other areas as well. My father had major surgery on his cervical spine last year. While he was at the hospital recovering (a very good hospital - Baptist in Kendall), a nurse attending to him could not communicate with him in English. She only knew the bare minimum, which was not enough to understand what he needed. My father knows some Spanish, but in his state, he was not able to get across to her what he was asking for - she even had a hard time understanding him when he asked for a nurse by name whom he knew spoke English. To me, that is a sign of failed bilingualism, and could have been a matter of life or death. A hospital is the one place you would certainly expect FULL bilingualism, and it still is not happening there!

Multilingualism is a great thing for anyone. However, I don't think that there is such a thing as a TRULY bilingual city. It is only possible if both sides are willing to truly work together toward good communication and put in equal effort, and this is a very difficult balance to achieve.

Oh, and for the record - not every Spanish-speaking immigrant is an "illegal." I see this all the time, especially from people who do not live in areas with a large number of immigrants, people referring to all hispanics as illegal immigrants, and that is very much not the case.
 
Old 06-01-2008, 04:09 PM
 
769 posts, read 1,970,313 times
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Good post, miamiblue.
Quote:
Originally Posted by malamute View Post
When Mexicans proclaim they are a race or hispanics claim they are a race -- la raza, because they come from Spanish speaking countries, then American would be a race too. The American race: people with ties to the USA, whose allegience is to the USA, who speak English, and whose culture includes pilgrims and American patriots, 4th of July.

Otherwise -- what is "race" really about especially when it comes to la raza claiming some special race status for itself? A special race status entitling them to unlimited immigration, rights to demand citizenship as a reward for breaking our laws and bring their own culture here instead of appreciating ours.

There are reasons you don't see people having the same problem with people immigrating from India who show a willingness to speak English -- first generation, or the Vietnamese who quickly assimilated and showed an eager willingness to learn English. Same goes for Filipinos who don't require "Press one" for their own language.

The minute someone objects to having American cities turned into Spanish speaking cities they are called racists so that certainly implies speaking English and holding American culture makes for a race also.
Thank you. America has always had people from other countries coming to here who do not speak English (obviously). The U.S. has had a mass of people who speak German, Italian, Russian, etc. But not once was there a separate system to say, "Press 1 for Italian, 2 for Russian," etc. Here in Minneapolis, when they were building the Light Rail, there was a petition to make the payment machine have several systems that allowed Somali, Hmong, Spanish, and probably another language or two. That was shut down quickly because of the money, mainly. In many places in MN our Somali and Hmong population is larger than our Spanish speakers, but not once is there a separate system that says, "Press 2 for Somali"; yet there are systems that have those for Spanish. What's the deal?

Also, New York has always been a place where various languages are spoken in different parts of the city, but unlike Miami, there has never been a time when one language clearly dominated the national language. In Miami that is completely different. And that is causing problems.

True, to be bilingual is good, but Miami shows that it is not a two-way street. There is a Spanish preference over English, the national language, and that is what is causing problems.
 
Old 06-01-2008, 04:38 PM
 
Location: Earth
539 posts, read 1,851,940 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by What! View Post
Good post, miamiblue.

Thank you. America has always had people from other countries coming to here who do not speak English (obviously). The U.S. has had a mass of people who speak German, Italian, Russian, etc. But not once was there a separate system to say, "Press 1 for Italian, 2 for Russian," etc. Here in Minneapolis, when they were building the Light Rail, there was a petition to make the payment machine have several systems that allowed Somali, Hmong, Spanish, and probably another language or two. That was shut down quickly because of the money, mainly. In many places in MN our Somali and Hmong population is larger than our Spanish speakers, but not once is there a separate system that says, "Press 2 for Somali"; yet there are systems that have those for Spanish. What's the deal?

Also, New York has always been a place where various languages are spoken in different parts of the city, but unlike Miami, there has never been a time when one language clearly dominated the national language. In Miami that is completely different. And that is causing problems.

True, to be bilingual is good, but Miami shows that it is not a two-way street. There is a Spanish preference over English, the national language, and that is what is causing problems.
Excellent points! So, why is this? Why did the immigrants who passed through Ellis Island have to learn English but the same is not so for the Latino population coming to America (more specifically, Miami) today?
 
Old 06-01-2008, 06:11 PM
 
Location: Mesa, Az
21,148 posts, read 36,654,941 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cool_mommy View Post
Excellent points! So, why is this? Why did the immigrants who passed through Ellis Island have to learn English but the same is not so for the Latino population coming to America (more specifically, Miami) today?
The pendulum is swinging against this 'multiculturalism' nonsense as we speak

The repercussions from the illegal immigrants 'rights' marches of 2+ years are still being felt-------flying the Mexican flag was a fatal PR blunder at best.
 
Old 06-01-2008, 06:40 PM
 
769 posts, read 1,970,313 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cool_mommy View Post
Excellent points! So, why is this? Why did the immigrants who passed through Ellis Island have to learn English but the same is not so for the Latino population coming to America (more specifically, Miami) today?
The numbers of Latinos coming to America currently are larger than the Germans, Italians, Slavs, what have you. There are people coming from Latin America in the thousands every week. Back in the late 1880s that was not the case for European immigrants. The number of Spanish-speaking people in Miami today has far exceeded the number of Italian speakers in say New York. Plus, when people immigrate to a new country they tend to stick together; that is common knowledge. So Latinos are all going to Miami because they notice that their numbers are higher there than in a place like Iowa.

Also, the European immigrants who came to America were documented. And the immigration offices gave them great incentives to branch out into parts of America, speak the language, and be a part of the system. Many Latinos are not documented when they come here; thus, they do not go through the immigration process that seeks to try make them part of the country.

Many people overlook the fact that the American immigration system not only documents people but also tries to make immigrants part of America by making it a rule for them to either go to school or to work. As a result, many immigrants become citizens because they've gone through many American institutions.

On the other hand, illegal immigrants do not go through this process at all. Thus, they are not guided by immigration to become a part of America, instead they do their own thing.
 
Old 06-02-2008, 08:51 AM
 
8,287 posts, read 11,490,367 times
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how did this thread turned into one of illegal immigration when it is about Spanish? Believe it or not the vast majority of hispanics in Miami are here legally and it's Mexican population is low since there is no land border but a water one. Most illegals in Miami are people who overstay their visas and ironically my brother had a friend who was an illegal who had been living & working in the US on a tourist Visa he had overtayed for over a decade. He was from Poland so nobody suspected anything and spoke perfect English!
 
Old 06-02-2008, 08:59 AM
 
769 posts, read 1,970,313 times
Reputation: 407
Well, this is the immigration board, MiamiRob. I guess that is how it turned into a thread about illegal immigration.
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