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View Poll Results: Does it irritate you when people call you/others "anti immigrant"?
Not at all 17 32.69%
Somewhat 4 7.69%
Yes 31 59.62%
Voters: 52. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 06-04-2008, 05:14 PM
 
Location: San Diego North County
4,800 posts, read 7,696,579 times
Reputation: 3010

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Quote:
Originally Posted by amc760 View Post
Thats the irony the protesters are trying to point out. I never took it literally when they say stuff like "white people go back to europe!"..I wish they didnt say that stuff because it makes them get taken less seriously.
But nobody is truly a native..except for the natives. Native Americans.

We are all descendants of immigrants. Making us a land of immigrants.
I don't know whats wrong with that.

We are not a land of immigrants. Some of those who live in America currently emigrated from elsewhere. They are immigrants. However, not all of the people living in America emigrated from another country. Those of us who are native born, i.e.; born in America are NOT immigrants.

By following your line of reasoning, any person born or living outside of the Olduvai Gorge in the Great Rift Valley of Africa is an immigrant. After all, that is where mankind originated over 2.6 million years ago.

Native American Indians could be considered immigrants--latecomers to the New World with regards to the populating of the rest of the world. Archaeological evidence for their presence in the New World has been dated to less that 15,000 years ago--a relatively short geological time period in the history of the modern homo-sapien sapien, who migrated from Africa to Europe approximately 40,000 years ago. It would seem that they and the Neanderthal were destined to share lands for approximately 10,000 years before Neanderthal was absorbed into the modern human population (Current middle range theory). However, speaking at least for the Apache, according to legend, the Nde have always been here (although archaeological evidence proves Athabascan migration) so we are not immigrants, even though we were a migratory people.

Can you see how absurd this argument for a "nation of immigrants" becomes?

So yes, we are all descended from immigrants--and if you, with your Mexican heritage, lived in Mexico--you would still be the descendent of those who migrated to Mexico approximately 14,000 years ago. Does that mean that Mexico, as a nation of immigrants, is obligated to deny its own sovereignty and remove its borders in order that whomever might want to emigrate can do so with impunity?

Ridiculous.

Those born in Mexico are native to that country. Just as those born in France are native to France, those born in Bolivia are native to Bolivia, etc.

Those Americans born in America to the parents of legal immigrants are native born Americans--not immigrants.

Last edited by Kele; 06-04-2008 at 05:42 PM..
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Old 06-04-2008, 05:15 PM
 
8,180 posts, read 11,044,856 times
Reputation: 2873
Quote:
Originally Posted by amc760 View Post
Thats the irony the protesters are trying to point out. I never took it literally when they say stuff like "white people go back to europe!"..I wish they didnt say that stuff because it makes them get taken less seriously.
But nobody is truly a native..except for the natives. Native Americans.

We are all descendants of immigrants. Making us a land of immigrants.
I don't know whats wrong with that.
Who on these boards said that they were anti-immigrant? Now, anti-illegal immigration yes, but not legal immigration. Why is the difference so hard for you to make? My family came here as immigrants, no doubt. But they had to abide by the immigration laws that were in force during those times. They had to have a certain amount of US currency in their possession, they had to have a trade or a skill and prove that they had plans to become contributing members of American society. They were then given a physical checking for infectious diseases such as TB as well as venereal diseases. They had what passed as a psych evaluation to make sure that they would not become a burden on society.
Then, if they passed through that -- and many didn't and were shipped back to their homelands -- they had to go out and prove themselves. There were no esl classes, foodstamps or any type of government assistance. They sank or swam on their power.
Now, the legal immigrants of today have other hurdles to jump on the path to citizenship, but they do it. They want to become citizens, and because they had to work hard to get to the point of being allowed into the country they try hard and they (for the most part) succeed.
Illegals on the other hand don't. They do not have the incentive and they didn't work hard to get here (aside from paying a coyote).
Here is an analogy that may explain what I am trying to get across. When someone works hard for, anything really but lets say a car they take care of it. They appreciate it. When people are just given one they don't appreciate it -- maybe its the wrong make or style, or perhaps they wouldn't have picked that color. Somehow, someway that car isn't as important to them if they had paid for it themselves. Illegals, by skirting the laws of this country cannot appreciate it. By their own admission many of them are just here to make money to send 'home', there is no drive nor desire to become a part of our society.
That is the difference.
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Old 06-04-2008, 05:48 PM
 
Location: California
3,172 posts, read 6,001,722 times
Reputation: 332
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kele View Post
We are not a land of immigrants. Some of those who live in America currently emigrated from elsewhere. They are immigrants. However, not all of the people living in America emigrated from another country. Those of us who are native born, i.e.; born in America are NOT immigrants.

By following your line of reasoning, any person born or living outside of the Olduvai Gorge in the Great Rift Valley of Africa is an immigrant. After all, that is where mankind originated over 2.6 million years ago.

Native American Indians could be considered immigrants--latecomers to the New World with regards to the populating of the rest of the world. Archaeological evidence for their presence in the New World has been dated to less that 15,000 years ago--a relatively short geological time period in the history of the modern homo-sapien sapien, who migrated from Africa to Europe approximately 40,000 years ago. It would seem that they and the Neanderthal were destined to share lands for approximately 10,000 years before Neanderthal was absorbed into the modern human population (Current middle range theory). However, speaking at least for the Apache, according to legend, the Nde have always been here (although archaeological evidence proves Athabascan migration) so we are not immigrants, even though we were a migratory people.

Can you see how absurd this argument for a "nation of immigrants" becomes?

So yes, we are all descended from immigrants--and if you, with your Mexican heritage, lived in Mexico--you would still be the descendent of those who migrated to Mexico approximately 14,000 years ago. Does that mean that Mexico, as a nation of immigrants, is obligated to deny its own sovereignty and remove its borders in order that whomever might want to emigrate can do so with impunity?

Ridiculous.

Those born in Mexico are native to that country. Just as those born in France are native to France, those born in Bolivia are native to Bolivia, etc.

Those Americans born in America to the parents of legal immigrants are native born Americans--not immigrants.
Again, we are all descendants of immigrants. America is a hodgepodge of cultures brought BY immigrants.

Or do you only eat hot dogs and apple pie ? Or hahah "freedom fries"?

What makes this country so beautiful and awesome is that we are a mix. We go out and eat pizza or mexican food, we speak different languages, we are AWARE of the world around us, because so many of us come from those different places.
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Old 06-04-2008, 06:00 PM
 
Location: San Diego North County
4,800 posts, read 7,696,579 times
Reputation: 3010
Quote:
Originally Posted by amc760 View Post
Again, we are all descendants of immigrants. America is a hodgepodge of cultures brought BY immigrants.

Or do you only eat hot dogs and apple pie ? Or hahah "freedom fries"?

What makes this country so beautiful and awesome is that we are a mix. We go out and eat pizza or mexican food, we speak different languages, we are AWARE of the world around us, because so many of us come from those different places.
America has it's own culture which has been contributed to over the years by those who have come to this country to build a new life. I've never argued this point.

But that doesn't make us all immigrants based on the actions of our ancestors. This is not a nation of immigrants. This is a nation whose fabric has been woven by the cultures of many peoples, but their progeny are native born Americans, NOT immigrants.

Personally, I prefer buffalo, fry bread, lefse, lingonberries, coffee, and Talisker to hot dogs, apple pie, or french fries.
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Old 06-04-2008, 07:05 PM
 
8,973 posts, read 14,628,336 times
Reputation: 2983
Quote:
Originally Posted by amc760 View Post
Thats the irony the protesters are trying to point out. I never took it literally when they say stuff like "white people go back to europe!"..I wish they didnt say that stuff because it makes them get taken less seriously.
But nobody is truly a native..except for the natives. Native Americans.

We are all descendants of immigrants. Making us a land of immigrants.
I don't know whats wrong with that.
Believe me, if this was your whole position, you'd have MOST of the people on this forum on your side, I can guarantee it.
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Old 06-04-2008, 07:25 PM
 
8,973 posts, read 14,628,336 times
Reputation: 2983
Quote:
Originally Posted by amc760 View Post
Again, we are all descendants of immigrants. America is a hodgepodge of cultures brought BY immigrants.

Or do you only eat hot dogs and apple pie ? Or hahah "freedom fries"?

What makes this country so beautiful and awesome is that we are a mix. We go out and eat pizza or mexican food, we speak different languages, we are AWARE of the world around us, because so many of us come from those different places.
A very frequent argument, and no, of COURSE we don't only eat Hot Dogs and Apple Pie, as is obvious. And yes, of COURSE we have lots of "interesting" colorful things we do, foods we eat, music we listen to, and colors of people in our neighborhoods, and in our families.

But we DO have a common culture here in the US, and it's clled the "American" culture...it's not 'white', nor is it 'anglo', nor is it really even Christian..it's American. And in THIS culture, we believe in freedom of speech, equality between the sexes, the RULE of LAW (that can be a tough one), the right to 'life, liberty'....well, you know the rest. You're an American.

There are SOME things here in "American" culture that we DON'T "do"...it's OK for some people, some places, but here, it's a "no-no". Every culture on earth has its 'no-no's'....here are some of ours:

(1) We don't allow sex with kiddies..that will get you jail time..same with barnyard animals....we're strictly 'platonic' with those.

(2) We don't control our women by beating them...again, jail time..

(3) We don't carry out private acts of revenge...we call the police.

(4) Big "no-no" on the religious violence. If our neighbor's religion disagrees with ours, we don't blow up his house....we simply avoid the subject

(5) We don't eat dogs or cats. Not that they're 'special', but here, they're protected by law.

(6) No cannibalism....we call that "murder", and we prosecute

(7) We don't bribe our policemen. If we DO, that's major jail time. We expect our cops to be 'clean', and we come down hard on the 'bad' ones..

(8) We don't rape our promiscuous teenage girls to "keep them in line". We try to get them to behave, but that sort of thing is prosecuted here...BIG no-no...a rape is a rape, as far as we're concerned.

These and many OTHER things are generally forbidden by our American culture. Some of them are ALSO forbidden by other cultures as well. But ALL of them are "OK" in some cultures, somewhere in the world, so we can't assume that 'anything goes'. Some stuff is "fine", but other stuff is NOT.
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Old 06-07-2008, 07:49 AM
 
1,474 posts, read 2,018,302 times
Reputation: 457
Quote:
Originally Posted by amc760 View Post
Thats the irony the protesters are trying to point out. I never took it literally when they say stuff like "white people go back to europe!"..I wish they didnt say that stuff because it makes them get taken less seriously.
But nobody is truly a native..except for the natives. Native Americans.

We are all descendants of immigrants. Making us a land of immigrants.
I don't know whats wrong with that.
There is nothing wrong with that.............and that is the COMMON ground of understanding which we should except.............
Just don't expect me to turn a blind eye towards the southern border...........
we have enough problems to contend with in the country without this latest round of "kill whitey" nonsense.........
Oh and is my spelling better????????
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Old 06-07-2008, 09:28 AM
 
Location: Mesa, Az
21,148 posts, read 36,658,378 times
Reputation: 3785
Quote:
Originally Posted by Convert 54 View Post
There is nothing wrong with that.............and that is the COMMON ground of understanding which we should except.............
Just don't expect me to turn a blind eye towards the southern border...........
we have enough problems to contend with in the country without this latest round of "kill whitey" nonsense.........
Oh and is my spelling better????????
For the record: if there ever were a serious attempt to return the USA, Mexico, etc. back to pre 1492 conditions socially, culturally, genetically, etc.------I would say that over 99% of the present inhabitants would have to leave or be 'eliminated' in some manner including the indigenous peoples who are no longer 'pure'. No more English, no more Spanish, no more First World infrastructure, and so on.
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Old 06-09-2008, 04:19 PM
 
394 posts, read 897,347 times
Reputation: 156
yes because i'm anti ILLEGAL immigrant, not anti immigrant.
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