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Old 01-22-2007, 03:03 PM
 
743 posts, read 1,151,684 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nea1 View Post
Again no idea!!! builders do not care about quality, my god I wish they did. I think you will be in for a big surprise. NO one wants to pay more, if you are equally skilled they will go for the cheaper one, if you are higher skilled you will be over qualified. We did exploit it, we were told they can get it done cheaper and faster. hense less quality. we were old it isnt quality that counts it is quantity. the buying public really have no idea what true quality is, they are not built like they used to be.
I'm sorry but if no one wants to pay more for quality, please explain to me the descrepancy in new home prices. Obviously every contractor is different, hence different prices. If no one in the industry cares about quality, again, this has nothing to do with illegal workers. This is an institutional flaw to raise profit margins.
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Old 01-22-2007, 03:20 PM
 
Location: Colorado
10,017 posts, read 16,694,959 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jest721 View Post
I'm sorry but if no one wants to pay more for quality, please explain to me the descrepancy in new home prices. Obviously every contractor is different, hence different prices. If no one in the industry cares about quality, again, this has nothing to do with illegal workers. This is an institutional flaw to raise profit margins.
The difference in prices? Builders profit,they can hire cheaper illegal labor and put more in pocket. The buying public are extremely out of touch with what their dollar is buying. that's why I wont tell people to buy new , I will only buy an older home, quality has little to do with the prices now. yes it does have to do with illegals, most do very shoddy work, sorry fact, seen it, dealt with it. I didnt mean no one cares, just the huge builders. There are alot of little guys out there that still care, most hire legal people. go to hobb.com and see all the defects in the housing today.
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Old 01-22-2007, 03:29 PM
 
743 posts, read 1,151,684 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nea1 View Post
The difference in prices? Builders profit,they can hire cheaper illegal labor and put more in pocket. The buying public are extremely out of touch with what their dollar is buying. that's why I wont tell people to buy new , I will only buy an older home, quality has little to do with the prices now. yes it does have to do with illegals, most do very shoddy work, sorry fact, seen it, dealt with it. I didnt mean no one cares, just the huge builders. There are alot of little guys out there that still care, most hire legal people. go to hobb.com and see all the defects in the housing today.
So you are a builder who won't buy a new home? I think this along with some of the past posts show that some of the institutional construction problems go far beyond who is hired or how much workers are paid. As far as the illegals doing shoddy work, anyone with no skill at their craft working for low wages would do comparitively poor work.
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Old 01-22-2007, 03:35 PM
 
Location: Colorado
10,017 posts, read 16,694,959 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jest721 View Post
So you are a builder who won't buy a new home? I think this along with some of the past posts show that some of the institutional construction problems go far beyond who is hired or how much workers are paid. As far as the illegals doing shoddy work, anyone with no skill at their craft working for low wages would do comparitively poor work.
We are not builders anymore, we have moved to different areas of the field. An no, you really need to go to hobb.com and read about KB and the others, it will explain it all to you. Poor wages equals poor work, right, thats why we couldnt compete, we wanted to pay for quality even if it is a few dollars more an hour. It is all about the builders, they want fast and cheap, no mention of quality just get it done. The problem is construction is who they hire. i have another design job to do, so i cant sit here and bicker back and forth anymore. believe what you will, you will be in for a shock someday.
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Old 01-22-2007, 03:45 PM
 
743 posts, read 1,151,684 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nea1 View Post
We are not builders anymore, we have moved to different areas of the field. An no, you really need to go to hobb.com and read about KB and the others, it will explain it all to you. Poor wages equals poor work, right, thats why we couldnt compete, we wanted to pay for quality even if it is a few dollars more an hour. It is all about the builders, they want fast and cheap, no mention of quality just get it done. The problem is construction is who they hire. i have another design job to do, so i cant sit here and bicker back and forth anymore. believe what you will, you will be in for a shock someday.
I have been warned about being naive for years, but it is yet to catch up with me. I hope the shock comes soon because I don't know how much longer I'm going to be around.
Since we are using anecdotal examples, specifically which jobs have you seen lost to illegals: architect/designer, framers, concrete workers, clean up crews, materials suppliers, lawyers, there are so many peripheral jobs I wonder which ones are being stolen from us.
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Old 01-22-2007, 05:51 PM
 
Location: Colorado
10,017 posts, read 16,694,959 times
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Originally Posted by jest721 View Post
I have been warned about being naive for years, but it is yet to catch up with me. I hope the shock comes soon because I don't know how much longer I'm going to be around.
Since we are using anecdotal examples, specifically which jobs have you seen lost to illegals: architect/designer, framers, concrete workers, clean up crews, materials suppliers, lawyers, there are so many peripheral jobs I wonder which ones are being stolen from us.
framers, roofers, drywallers, painters, siders, landscape crews, nannies,fastfood workers ( mostly taken from teenagers)carpet layers, concrete guys,clean up, deck crews,plumbing ( yes they can falsify) floor installers, tilers,hvac installers,window installers,on and on and on. there was a time when I saw nothing but white guys on crews, now I cant find any.
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Old 01-22-2007, 06:54 PM
 
743 posts, read 1,151,684 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nea1 View Post
framers, roofers, drywallers, painters, siders, landscape crews, nannies,fastfood workers ( mostly taken from teenagers)carpet layers, concrete guys,clean up, deck crews,plumbing ( yes they can falsify) floor installers, tilers,hvac installers,window installers,on and on and on. there was a time when I saw nothing but white guys on crews, now I cant find any.
I understand. Of the jobs you listed, and this is a broad brush, but it seems that a few are skilled: many are not. Roofers, drywallers, painters, siders, landscaping, nannies, fast food, carpet layers, clean up, deck crews, tilers, maybe even window installers, I would classify as low to no-skill jobs. If your entire livelihood is dependent on one of these jobs, you may as well be a basket weaver. Virtually anyone can do these or learn quickly to do them, so they should replace anyone demanding higher wages for the same type of work; given there may be differences in quality.
As for the other jobs, I'm not sure I would hire a plumber, electrician, or framer (I understand this takes some extensive training but I may be wrong), primarily because the toilet would leak, I would receive a shock upon turning on the lights, and my house would tip over. Developers higher under-experienced workers for these jobs at their own peril, but if it works properly with little training then I am wrong and they fall under the first category of low-skilled jobs.
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Old 01-22-2007, 07:19 PM
 
Location: Tennessee
1,459 posts, read 4,041,549 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wildberries61 View Post
Thank your nephew on behalf of the America People!!

I'll do that wildberries.
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Old 01-23-2007, 05:32 AM
 
Location: Heartland Florida
9,324 posts, read 23,234,062 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jest721 View Post
If you conducted a system wide purge of low wage workers in construction (and this goes for any industry), you would drive up prices so high, that you would price most of the country out of the housing market. This is especially scary because the housing market is already out of control. The reality is, most American workers want a guaranteed job and wage. That is simply unrealistic. Most Americans have been spoiled by inflated wages for themselves (thanks unions) and exploiting immigrant workers through cheap hamburgers, housing, landscaping services, etc.
Also, if your experience is true, that builders can have good profit margins with American wokers, then immigrant workers are not a threat at all to your livelihood.
If this was true you could still buy a home for 3X median wage. Look around, in some areas homes sell for 10X median wage or more! In south Florida there are no longer any "americans" in construction, yet costs are sky high. Labor is not the problem but a population explosion is. This area went from 500,000 people 50 years ago to 4 million or so (legal) and who knows how many illegals? Meanwhile RE investors and big time developers drive around in luxury cars and enjoy their supersised Mc Mansions. Has anyone taken a close look at the low quality of today's construction? The high costs are from land speculation, zoning and loose lending, not from labor costs. Otherwise my parents would have paid 150,000 for their home in 1960, not 15,000. We don't need illegals, there's no room for them anymore!
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Old 01-23-2007, 08:07 AM
 
504 posts, read 1,619,324 times
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The original thread was what to do with this problem and it again has turned into the problems that illegal immigration has caused, whether true or not. One of the reasons so many are here is because of the shortage of labor. we have a very low unemployment rate, so not too many jobs are going unfilled, legally or illegally.
The very first thing that needs to be done is to stop the flow, it may not be easy and it will never and I mean never, will stop completely, no matter how we secure the borders. Putting resources and money on the border, helicopters, planes and all manner of guards with detention centers close enough to hold them and sent immediately back after a hearing, with fingerprints etc. Put the same resources to work on the border that we have in Iraq, bring out the National Guard.I do not mean a war, just a humane way to keep them home.
Start negotiating with Mexico and other countries to stop this problem. Threaten to pull out any aid, or other help that we give Mexico and Latin America, threaten to stop money transfers, and mail going to these countries unless its searched first. We do this to Cuba, it will not stop it all but it would make Mexico help us with this problem. Many of our banks make millions on this money also, so they are going to raise hell.
Business will be fined heavily and all workers registered as non documented. They can keep them providing they can prove they can not get citizens to work at a decent wage. This may kick our butt, a lot of business will just move south of the border, and a lot if not most of our fast food companies will raise prices.
Set up committees with big business, politicians, well educated citizens, and leaders of Latino groups both citizens and not, to find solutions or suggestions.
Get them documented, let them know they will not get deported just for getting registered, this will let us know who, how many are here and where from. Most of these people did not fill out the census because of fear of reprisal.
What to do with those here? Many of you think we should put them in box cars and ship them south of the border but its not going to work, Mexico has said it will not take them, putting them in jail would cost way too much money and too many children are here and of course a lot of the children are citizens. The worse president ever thinks some of them would go home and reapply for entry, it is not going to happen. So hold your heart, amnesty it is, a gradual assimilation into the country and a moratorium on any one else coming in, if you are not documented you will go back. We will not be able to send the majority of people back for numerous reasons, they have been here too long, they have children here, they have children that are born here, and many other reason, some even have businesses here.
Revamp the immigration department making it more effecient and able to handle the many that are here so they will not get so frustrated applying for citizenship, and papers to work, many start the process only to give up because of the horrible mess that is INS.
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