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Old 01-22-2007, 10:45 AM
 
Location: Tennessee
1,459 posts, read 4,042,014 times
Reputation: 876

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Quote:
Originally Posted by jest721 View Post
How exactly did these people lose their jobs to immigrants? What industry are they in? I will guess that they didn't lose their jobs, they were simply unwilling to accept market wages.

Most of the jobs were lost in building construction, these workers you speak of not willing to accept market wages...well here once again you have no idea what you're yapping about. Some of these workers had worked for these contractors 4-6 years. They were simply replaced for a much cheaper wage due to the greedy contractors. One of my nephews is a building contractor, no way in hell will he hire a mexican. He hires local people that need to feed their family.
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Old 01-22-2007, 11:00 AM
 
Location: Thumb of Michigan
4,489 posts, read 6,658,763 times
Reputation: 2522
Quote:
Originally Posted by Amavel View Post
You can't blame Americans for wanting a decent standard of living, but you can blame them for complaining about illegal immigrants 'taking' their jobs ....

First thing first, would you agree illegal immigration undermines sovereignty and legal right of citizens? (...i'm guessing semantics of "well, the "indians" were here first"...are to follow?!)
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Old 01-22-2007, 11:22 AM
 
3,712 posts, read 5,711,852 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Amavel View Post
You can't blame Americans for wanting a decent standard of living, but you can blame them for complaining about illegal immigrants 'taking' their jobs and not making every effort to equip themselves for a new career in, perhaps, a new industry.

Structural unemployment is avoidable-- you have to be willing to extend yourself and open yourself up to new ideas and career paths. If that means going back to school at night to earn more credentials, so be it. You aren't mobile, you say? Great, I'm sure there is more than one industry in your area that you can work within and succeed. If you are mobile, migrate somewhere where unemployment is low and several job markets are hot.

If the individuals that spent their days complaining about the slave driven illegal immigrants spent HALF AS MUCH TIME looking for work, becoming qualified, and testing out new ideas and paths, I'm sure it wouldn't be as much of a problem. But wait, because its illegal immigrants at the bottom of this you are excused from any responsibility. I understand now.
There is no reason Americans should be expected to walk away from decent paying jobs simply because someone who should not be in the country in the first place agrees to work for less. It wasn't too long ago that an American worker earned a decent wage working in industries such as construction and meatpacking. The influx of illegal aliens has changed all of that. These jobs need to be returned to Americans.
Furthermore, there are many, many people with job skills that are in no danger of ever being replaced by some illegal alien who object to what the illegal aliens have done to this country and other Americans. To infer that ony those who have lost jobs to illegal aliens are angry is disingenuous at best.
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Old 01-22-2007, 11:22 AM
 
Location: Tennessee
1,459 posts, read 4,042,014 times
Reputation: 876
Quote:
Originally Posted by Amavel View Post
On the NATIONAL level, illegal immigtants are willing to work for wages less than those of the MAJORITY of Americans, due either to pride or cost of living.

Feel free to provide as much anecdotal evidence as you please, but it doesn't change, influence, nor trump the trends on the naitonal level.

Your posts on this issue tells me loud and clear that you have no hands on experience as to what goes on in our country. By that I mean you haven't traveled around the country and experienced these problems. I think your experience is based on text books and web sites period. I have a youngster that just graduated college and married into our family, and the only time she has been out of state is on family vacations. But yet she knows every thing there is about any subject. I just told her recently " if you could sell all the BS you talk to the public you would be a lock for president in 08". Her knowledge on illegal aliens is based on what she sees on TV and what she sees in print. I think she believes that illegal aliens are little green people.
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Old 01-22-2007, 11:50 AM
 
Location: Colorado
10,017 posts, read 16,697,044 times
Reputation: 2086
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim280 View Post
Your posts on this issue tells me loud and clear that you have no hands on experience as to what goes on in our country. By that I mean you haven't traveled around the country and experienced these problems. I think your experience is based on text books and web sites period. I have a youngster that just graduated college and married into our family, and the only time she has been out of state is on family vacations. But yet she knows every thing there is about any subject. I just told her recently " if you could sell all the BS you talk to the public you would be a lock for president in 08". Her knowledge on illegal aliens is based on what she sees on TV and what she sees in print. I think she believes that illegal aliens are little green people.
It is real easy for some to talk when they do not have any real experience dealing with them. Just because they look things up doesnt mean they know what is going on. We have lived and worked in 4 states on both coasts, the problem is getting out of hand and these people really need to stop making excuses for them. There is none.
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Old 01-22-2007, 11:52 AM
 
743 posts, read 1,151,842 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim280 View Post
Most of the jobs were lost in building construction, these workers you speak of not willing to accept market wages...well here once again you have no idea what you're yapping about. Some of these workers had worked for these contractors 4-6 years. They were simply replaced for a much cheaper wage due to the greedy contractors. One of my nephews is a building contractor, no way in hell will he hire a mexican. He hires local people that need to feed their family.
By definition market wages is what employees are willing to work for and what employers are willing to pay, so immigrant workers ARE working for market wages. Many of your friends seem to be unwilling to accept that there are no guarantees in this economy. It is foolish to think that you can just get a job and have security and a living wage for the rest of your life. That is a different system and it collapsed two decades ago. Immigrants are a scapegoat. If we paid your friends what they think they deserve, no one would be able to afford their products and their industry would collapse. Guess what, they would then be out of work.
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Old 01-22-2007, 11:56 AM
 
Location: Colorado
10,017 posts, read 16,697,044 times
Reputation: 2086
Quote:
Originally Posted by jest721 View Post
By definition market wages is what employees are willing to work for and what employers are willing to pay, so immigrant workers ARE working for market wages. Many of your friends seem to be unwilling to accept that there are no guarantees in this economy. It is foolish to think that you can just get a job and have security and a living wage for the rest of your life. That is a different system and it collapsed two decades ago. Immigrants are a scapegoat. If we paid your friends what they think they deserve, no one would be able to afford their products and their industry would collapse. Guess what, they would then be out of work.
That is such BS it isnt even funny. the builders are the ones reaping the benefits of this. The just get more profit for charging the home buyers more. they could pay livable wages to americans charge the same and just make a little less profit. But Greed is a powerful thing. We have been in construction 20 years, we know of builders that only hire americans, they charge the same and are doing great. No they are not the DR Hortons or Centex's but they are well off just the same.
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Old 01-22-2007, 12:09 PM
 
743 posts, read 1,151,842 times
Reputation: 174
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nea1 View Post
But Greed is a powerful thing.
Just so I'm clear, greed is bad if you own a company but it's admirable if you are an overpaid American laborer? No thanks unions.
If I took YOUR job because I was willing to do the same work for a lower wage, but probably at poorer quality because of my inexperience in your particular field, you would be in the same position. There will always be someone willing to do your job cheaper, there are no guarantees in our market. All I have to do is be willing to live on less than you do now, I may already be living on less than that, and taking your job could be a pay raise.
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Old 01-22-2007, 12:47 PM
 
Location: Colorado
10,017 posts, read 16,697,044 times
Reputation: 2086
Quote:
Originally Posted by jest721 View Post
Just so I'm clear, greed is bad if you own a company but it's admirable if you are an overpaid American laborer? No thanks unions.
If I took YOUR job because I was willing to do the same work for a lower wage, but probably at poorer quality because of my inexperience in your particular field, you would be in the same position. There will always be someone willing to do your job cheaper, there are no guarantees in our market. All I have to do is be willing to live on less than you do now, I may already be living on less than that, and taking your job could be a pay raise.
Making 9 bucks an hour and being cut so the employer can pay 5 and not have to match taxes and comp isnt greed on the workers part it is on the employers part. Wanting to make a decent wage and be able to pay your taxes and insurance and bills is not greed. if an american comes in and can do it for less, well thats the breaks if the employer wants it. To lose it to someone that has no Business being here and will milk the system, yes I have a problem with that.
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Old 01-22-2007, 01:13 PM
 
743 posts, read 1,151,842 times
Reputation: 174
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nea1 View Post
... the builders are the ones reaping the benefits of this. The just get more profit for charging the home buyers more. they could pay livable wages to americans charge the same and just make a little less profit... we know of builders that only hire americans, they charge the same and are doing great...
If you conducted a system wide purge of low wage workers in construction (and this goes for any industry), you would drive up prices so high, that you would price most of the country out of the housing market. This is especially scary because the housing market is already out of control. The reality is, most American workers want a guaranteed job and wage. That is simply unrealistic. Most Americans have been spoiled by inflated wages for themselves (thanks unions) and exploiting immigrant workers through cheap hamburgers, housing, landscaping services, etc.
Also, if your experience is true, that builders can have good profit margins with American wokers, then immigrant workers are not a threat at all to your livelihood.
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