U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies > Illegal Immigration
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Closed Thread Start New Thread
 
Old 06-04-2008, 04:43 PM
 
Location: California
3,172 posts, read 5,997,852 times
Reputation: 332

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by DontH8Me View Post
All racists are not anti illegal - Mecha, for instance, I am sure has no problem with illegals.

And why only indignant about those whose goal is to remove or harass people of color? Are they the only ones who deserve your sympathy? Just last week, one of the CD posters was confronted by a pro-illegal and asked to "leave" if they didn't like it. Where is your indignation there?
If you mean Anglo Americans, then no, I dont feel as passionate about thier "issues" whatever those may be. How might I ask, are Anglo Americans being marginalized in this country? What civil rights issues are they dealing with? Having to press 1 on the phone to speak English?

You have a whole country. Find me one Black or one Hispanic or one Asian stepping up for White rights in this country. We're too busy securing our own rights and trying to bring ourselves out of poverty and irrelevance in this country.

 
Old 06-04-2008, 05:31 PM
 
8,973 posts, read 14,619,457 times
Reputation: 2983
Quote:
Originally Posted by amc760 View Post
And I'm not trying to hide my outrage anymore as a voting, taxpaying United States citizen who is proud of his Mexican heritage, whos grandparents are Mexican immigrants, and who STILL has much family in Mexico.

Im a U.S. Citizen who is getting infuriated by stuff like this:

YouTube - Minuteman Project: EXPOSED!

And while Im sure many of you are legitimately concerned about the problem of illegal immigration, I'm sure some of you have the attitude of that guy in the video carrying his American flag. Go reform immigration laws, and stop worrying about the faults of Mexican people, because American's have plenty.
Granted, this discussion has gone off in "nit-picking" directions....and granted, any 'hot-button' issue like this is going to get LOTS of attention..some of it from some pretty 'eerie' people. Racists? Of COURSE they're going to be interested. LOTS of racists are delighted to get involved with an issue like 'speaking out against illegal imigration'. Lots of OTHER racists are atracted to such groups as MEChA.....THOSE groups, too, attract their 'wackos'. Consider this, too...this is hardly a 'normal' sort of argument, anyway. This is an argument in which TEN PERCENT of a country has left that country and moved illegally into its next-door neighbor....and the argument is not over "undoing this" (which I can practically PROMISE you, will neverr happen)..the "argument" is about whether it's "mean, racist, and xenophobic" if some of us want to stop ANOTHER 10 or 15 Million people from coming illegally....that's a pretty 'fantastic' argument, I think you'll have to agree. It's like having 200 uninvited guests at your daughter's wedding, then arguing about whether it's 'mean' to close the door...or let in ANOTHER 100 'crashers'....truly, a bizarre argument. No wonder the 'kooks' get involved.

So you're a "voting, taxpaying US citizen"...well so am I. Congratulations. And you're "proud of your Mexican heritage"? Great....there's some of that in my family, too. Your grandparents were (are) Mexican immigrants? Wonderful. I hope they've done well, and I hope whatever 'drove' them to immigrate here didn't hurt their outlook. I hope it was a wise decision. You didn't say whether they came legally or not..but in any case, I'm sure they came long ago, at a time when their presence was needed, and I'll BET they didn't get much government assistance...right? In fact, if they're anything like the many elderly Mexicans I know, I'll bet they're happy to be here, and if they ever DO go back, it's only for a visit. I'l bet your grandparents didn't spend much time running through the streets, blocking traffic, and cursing at 'the system', either...at least, that's my guess.
You ALSO mention that you have much family in Mexico. That's great. I have some in-laws who ALSO have cousins there, and they visit frequently. It must be nice to have family in ANY foreign country that one can visit from time to time.

However, I fail to see what ANY of this has to do with your seeming single-minded determination to support illegal immigration. Is it some sort of guilt? (MY family 'got in', so therefore, so should everyone else, now, and for all time to come, forever?)...that just isn't realistic. Is it some sort of 'ethnic solidarity' or loyalty? In a multi-ethnic society like the US, that doesn't work too well, either. You are an American. Your "fellow Americans" are your 'group' now..or should be. Almost ALL Americans have relatives overseas, somewhere. But they're RELATIVES, not 'fellow Americans". Does your family in Mexico want to move here? If so, maybe you can sponsor them, advise them, somehow to get them here legally. But if your loyalty is not just to 'family', but to the "entire Mexican people", then that puts you in conflict with your many fellow Americans whose loyalties are NOT to "the Mexican people". That kind of loyalty is fine for one's private life, but in the public arena, it's disastrous. "Ethnic loyalty" which trumps loyalty to country is EXACTLY why Yugoslavia, (once a prosperous nation) no longer exists.

I know MANY Americans of Mexican descent. My wife MIGHT even be included, with a little 'imagination'...her 'roots' lie right here in California...which once, briefly, was a part of Mexico. Her grandparents spoke Spanish (as did MOST California Indians). Numerous other family members are actually descended from Mexicans, and a few spouses have come up in recent decades. Some of these folks DEFINITELY had 'illegal' parents or grandparents, decades ago.

But this isn't 'decades ago', and times and conditions and economies change. So has Mexico. And so have the immigrants. And what was "OK" decades ago, is not neccessarily "OK" today...in a NUMBER of situations. So once again, congratulations to you, and to your family, and I hope they are all successful. But what makes you think ANY of this means you should feel obligated to advocate an ongoing and continuous illegal immigration, now or in the future? I fail to see the reason for your anger.

Forget the racists...they'll always be here. What about the GOOD people who are upset about illegal immigration? What's your problem ,exactly, with them?
 
Old 06-04-2008, 05:47 PM
 
8,973 posts, read 14,619,457 times
Reputation: 2983
Default Serious Questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by amc760 View Post
If you mean Anglo Americans, then no, I dont feel as passionate about thier "issues" whatever those may be. How might I ask, are Anglo Americans being marginalized in this country? What civil rights issues are they dealing with? Having to press 1 on the phone to speak English?

You have a whole country. Find me one Black or one Hispanic or one Asian stepping up for White rights in this country. We're too busy securing our own rights and trying to bring ourselves out of poverty and irrelevance in this country.
What, exactly, is an "Anglo American"..I've never quite understood. An American of exclusively English descent? An American who speaks English as his first language? Are German-Americans "Anglos", if they understand English? What about Italian-Americans?

Can a person of Hispanic descent ever be an "anglo"?. What if he doesn't speak Spanish? Should Hispanic-Americans ever form friendships, or marry, non-Hispanics, or would this make them somehow 'less Hispanic?"

Should a LOYAL Hispanic ever take the side of an Anglo against a Hispanic? For example, should he report an Hispanic gang-banger to an Anglo policeman? If he DOES, is he still a "real" Hispanic, or a 'pocho ?'....or even a 'coconut'?....

Can a Hispanic ever be opposed to illegal immigration from Hispanic countries? Should a Hispanic be compelled to live under "anglo law"?...and if so, WHICH anglo laws? What about an American whose ancestors originated in Mexico, who now opposes illegals? Is he still a Hispanic, or does that make him an "anglo". or is he just a 'nobody'?

Should Mexican-Americans feel closer in sympathies and interests to their "anglo" next-door neighbor..or to someone living in Argentina, whose ancestors came from Italy, but who's now a "hispanic"?

How, exactly, in 2008, are Hispanics "marginalized"? Are there colleges whose policy is not to admit Hispanics, regardless of their qualifications? Are there states or counties where Hispanics can't own property? Can you think of any city whose by-laws specify "Illegal immigrants welcome...EXCEPT for Hispanics"? Are there companies, or cities, who publish their literature in MANY languages, but purposely exclude Spanish? Are there places where gang-bangers who are violent felons, in this country illegally, are allowed to stay, as long as they aren't from some Hispanic country?
Is there any city you can think of where illegals from Italy, or Denmark, or Taiwan, or Sri Lanka, demonstrate in the streets, cursing and waving their 'national' flags, and the anglos smile patiently...but these same anglos begin to frown and grumble, when the Hispanic illegals show up for THEIR demonstations?

I'm still trying to figure out how Hispanics today are being marginalized, when everyone KNOWS they're legal American citizens, and have every right to be here, and HAVE been here, since "day one".

Last edited by macmeal; 06-04-2008 at 05:59 PM..
 
Old 06-04-2008, 06:13 PM
 
Location: Mesa, Az
21,148 posts, read 36,633,862 times
Reputation: 3785
Quote:
Originally Posted by amc760 View Post
If you mean Anglo Americans, then no, I dont feel as passionate about thier "issues" whatever those may be. How might I ask, are Anglo Americans being marginalized in this country? What civil rights issues are they dealing with? Having to press 1 on the phone to speak English?

You have a whole country. Find me one Black or one Hispanic or one Asian stepping up for White rights in this country. We're too busy securing our own rights and trying to bring ourselves out of poverty and irrelevance in this country.
amc760:

To be blunt: assimilate or be left behind by American society.

When confronted by the de facto choice of hanging onto my father's ethnic heritage or becoming 'full' American------the choice was quite easy.
 
Old 06-04-2008, 06:18 PM
 
Location: Your mind
2,923 posts, read 4,486,650 times
Reputation: 589
Quote:
Originally Posted by ArizonaBear View Post
Someone illegally crossing the US border to say 'I visited the USA' and returned home is one thing.

Now; someone crossing illegally with the intention of living/working here in the USA is a much bigger lawbreaker......factor in ID theft then we are discussing Felonies!

Translation: I sure as hell do NOT want that variety of criminal in my country-------the cold reality is that their kind typically have little respect for law and order as it is.
I don't want any jaywalkers in my country, their kind disgusts me, they have no respect for law and order.
 
Old 06-04-2008, 07:06 PM
 
8,180 posts, read 11,037,808 times
Reputation: 2873
Quote:
Originally Posted by fishmonger View Post
I don't want any jaywalkers in my country, their kind disgusts me, they have no respect for law and order.
Jaywalkers may be many things, but at least they don't engage in identity theft.
 
Old 06-04-2008, 09:53 PM
 
Location: Arizona
2,065 posts, read 3,175,450 times
Reputation: 391
Quote:
Originally Posted by macmeal View Post
What, exactly, is an "Anglo American"..I've never quite understood. An American of exclusively English descent? An American who speaks English as his first language? Are German-Americans "Anglos", if they understand English? What about Italian-Americans?

Can a person of Hispanic descent ever be an "anglo"?. What if he doesn't speak Spanish? Should Hispanic-Americans ever form friendships, or marry, non-Hispanics, or would this make them somehow 'less Hispanic?"

Should a LOYAL Hispanic ever take the side of an Anglo against a Hispanic? For example, should he report an Hispanic gang-banger to an Anglo policeman? If he DOES, is he still a "real" Hispanic, or a 'pocho ?'....or even a 'coconut'?....

Can a Hispanic ever be opposed to illegal immigration from Hispanic countries? Should a Hispanic be compelled to live under "anglo law"?...and if so, WHICH anglo laws? What about an American whose ancestors originated in Mexico, who now opposes illegals? Is he still a Hispanic, or does that make him an "anglo". or is he just a 'nobody'?

Should Mexican-Americans feel closer in sympathies and interests to their "anglo" next-door neighbor..or to someone living in Argentina, whose ancestors came from Italy, but who's now a "hispanic"?

How, exactly, in 2008, are Hispanics "marginalized"? Are there colleges whose policy is not to admit Hispanics, regardless of their qualifications? Are there states or counties where Hispanics can't own property? Can you think of any city whose by-laws specify "Illegal immigrants welcome...EXCEPT for Hispanics"? Are there companies, or cities, who publish their literature in MANY languages, but purposely exclude Spanish? Are there places where gang-bangers who are violent felons, in this country illegally, are allowed to stay, as long as they aren't from some Hispanic country?
Is there any city you can think of where illegals from Italy, or Denmark, or Taiwan, or Sri Lanka, demonstrate in the streets, cursing and waving their 'national' flags, and the anglos smile patiently...but these same anglos begin to frown and grumble, when the Hispanic illegals show up for THEIR demonstations?

I'm still trying to figure out how Hispanics today are being marginalized, when everyone KNOWS they're legal American citizens, and have every right to be here, and HAVE been here, since "day one".
Another EXCELLENT post from macmeal, left unanswered ....hmmmmmm

I'm STILL willing to make that bet, though...
 
Old 06-05-2008, 02:25 AM
 
Location: California
3,172 posts, read 5,997,852 times
Reputation: 332
Quote:
Originally Posted by macmeal View Post
What, exactly, is an "Anglo American"..I've never quite understood. An American of exclusively English descent? An American who speaks English as his first language? Are German-Americans "Anglos", if they understand English? What about Italian-Americans?

Can a person of Hispanic descent ever be an "anglo"?. What if he doesn't speak Spanish? Should Hispanic-Americans ever form friendships, or marry, non-Hispanics, or would this make them somehow 'less Hispanic?"

Should a LOYAL Hispanic ever take the side of an Anglo against a Hispanic? For example, should he report an Hispanic gang-banger to an Anglo policeman? If he DOES, is he still a "real" Hispanic, or a 'pocho ?'....or even a 'coconut'?....

Can a Hispanic ever be opposed to illegal immigration from Hispanic countries? Should a Hispanic be compelled to live under "anglo law"?...and if so, WHICH anglo laws? What about an American whose ancestors originated in Mexico, who now opposes illegals? Is he still a Hispanic, or does that make him an "anglo". or is he just a 'nobody'?

Should Mexican-Americans feel closer in sympathies and interests to their "anglo" next-door neighbor..or to someone living in Argentina, whose ancestors came from Italy, but who's now a "hispanic"?

How, exactly, in 2008, are Hispanics "marginalized"? Are there colleges whose policy is not to admit Hispanics, regardless of their qualifications? Are there states or counties where Hispanics can't own property? Can you think of any city whose by-laws specify "Illegal immigrants welcome...EXCEPT for Hispanics"? Are there companies, or cities, who publish their literature in MANY languages, but purposely exclude Spanish? Are there places where gang-bangers who are violent felons, in this country illegally, are allowed to stay, as long as they aren't from some Hispanic country?
Is there any city you can think of where illegals from Italy, or Denmark, or Taiwan, or Sri Lanka, demonstrate in the streets, cursing and waving their 'national' flags, and the anglos smile patiently...but these same anglos begin to frown and grumble, when the Hispanic illegals show up for THEIR demonstations?

I'm still trying to figure out how Hispanics today are being marginalized, when everyone KNOWS they're legal American citizens, and have every right to be here, and HAVE been here, since "day one".
Macmeal, I'm sorry, but you have a tendecy to go into way too much rhetoric, and at the end of the day, I'm a little bit too tired to decipher the point in it all.

From what I was willing to read,
with the example of a Latino choosing between a Latino gangbanger vs. an anglo Cop?
In our community, sometimes both can be bad news. But aside from that, most of us don't like "gangbangers" ourself.

I have no beef with people who are against illegal immigration. I DO have beef with idiot vigilante groups who waste their time harassing people who are trying to work. If they are so serious about their cause, take it to the government. Force them to do something.

I refuse to join on the witchhunt on illegal immigratns. I prefer that the politicians do more to crack down on employers who so eagerly hire them. Because I know that most of these people aren't as evil as pointed out.

I am disgusted by White Americans(anglo, saxon, latin, scandinavian, whatever!) trying to strip Latinos of their identity. We are for the most part descendants of Indians. Yes, we have Spanish blood in us, and yes some of us may have light skin and resemble European features. But fact is, we are the product of colonization. The widespread RAPE of indigenous women by Spanish Conquistadors, taking everything else they wanted too. I cant speak for Mexicans, but many of us Mexican-Americans who are aware of our history our proud of the Indian blood in us.
With your guys' rationale, Malcolm X shouldn't be considered a Black leader. He was part European, dont you know? He even conked his hair to look more white. Come on .

I am also disgusted by Americans(of any race, ethnicity, creed, religion, sexual orientation, city location, blah blah blah) denying the problems of Latinos in this country, whether newly arrived, or having been here for generations.
I suspect its because we have not earned the "white guilt."
"Oh, we never enslaved you guys, so you dont have it so bad! We dont owe you Sh*t, so why should we care about your problems?".

But thats life. The Latino population WILL continue to grow and hopefully we will continue to thrive and make it in this country. Our hardwork will pay off.
 
Old 06-05-2008, 02:26 AM
 
Location: California
3,172 posts, read 5,997,852 times
Reputation: 332
Quote:
Originally Posted by GuyPinestra View Post
Another EXCELLENT post from macmeal, left unanswered ....hmmmmmm

I'm STILL willing to make that bet, though...
I'm sorry,[moderator cut: inappropriate comments] . Im going to choose to stop debating with you on this topic any further.

Last edited by madicarus2000; 06-05-2008 at 09:27 PM.. Reason: inappropriate comments
 
Old 06-05-2008, 08:09 AM
 
8,180 posts, read 11,037,808 times
Reputation: 2873
Quote:
Originally Posted by amc760 View Post
I am disgusted by White Americans(anglo, saxon, latin, scandinavian, whatever!) trying to strip Latinos of their identity. We are for the most part descendants of Indians. Yes, we have Spanish blood in us, and yes some of us may have light skin and resemble European features. But fact is, we are the product of colonization. The widespread RAPE of indigenous women by Spanish Conquistadors, taking everything else they wanted too. I cant speak for Mexicans, but many of us Mexican-Americans who are aware of our history our proud of the Indian blood in us.
Well, I'm the product of generations of rape and pillaging from the Vikings. Whats your point? If you are insinuating something is owed you because an ancestress (or many) of yours was raped ---- take it up with Spain because the US had nothing to do with that bit of shameful history. If you are attempting to make a connection of common blood and history between Mexicans and Native Americans to excuse widespread illegal immigration, well good luck with that one. Please, try to enroll in the Lakota tribe, or Apache or Ute or Cheyenne based on your Indian blood ---- I would love to see their reaction.
Be proud of your history and your culture. But by taking pleasure and pride in your past don't blame others for sins committed long ago by people long dead.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Closed Thread

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies > Illegal Immigration
Similar Threads
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2018, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top