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you arent for legal immigration as much as you see it as the lesser evil. you'd be complaining if you were surrounded by spanish speakers who were legal americans.
And many of those who come here illegally are as much criminals as you are if you ever drank a beer before 21, sped 3 miles over the speed limit, or downloaded a free song.
Yeah, the sheer amount of illegal immigration MAY have a negative affect on certain things, but stop trying to villainize the individual illegal immigrant. You have a very ugly picture of who these people really are.
[moderator cut: inappropriate comments]
My grandparents emigrated to this country legally. Not only were they required to prove that they could fully support themselves without utilizing any American social services, but they were also required to speak enough English to communicate and to pass a citizenship test IN ENGLISH before they were allowed to come here.
My grandparents raised 5 children--American children. English was the only language spoken in their home--neither my father nor his siblings ever learned enough of my grandparent's mother tongue to hold a conversation. Why? Because my grandparents came to this country with a love for her already in their hearts and a determination to become a part of the fabric of America. The two male children, my father and my uncle, both volunteered to serve this country as soon as they turned 17. They were a part of the Greatest Generation, my father went to Japan, my uncle to Germany. My grandmother, as her sons put their lives on the line to fight for this country in WW II, became a "Rosie the Riveter"--she built ships for the Navy.
My grandparents loved, respected, and appreciated this country and they instilled those same values in their children.
My grandparents didn't demand that America change to suit them. They didn't demand that business in this country be conducted in their native tongue. And they never, ever, became a burden upon the American taxpayers by abusing the social services that Americans are forced to support with their tax dollars.
Illegal immigration spits in the face of the loyalty and sacrifice given to this country by those who loved and respected her enough to come here legally. Refusing to assimilate and become a integral part of this country tears at the very fabric of what makes this country great.
Attempting to justify the lawbreaking behavior of illegal aliens by comparing speeding to the intentional and willful illegal entry into this country with blatant disregard for the sovereignty of this nation is like comparing a shark attack to a mosquito bite.
You do not know me and couldn't pick me out of a line up if your life depended on it. You have no idea what my experience with illegal aliens has shown me. I do not villify individuals based on the actions of the whole, I have worked with some people that I knew were illegal for whom I continue to hold great affection. But I do not excuse their lawless behavior simply because other than their tendency to ignore U.S. sovereignty, they're really good people....
Yet I've had more negative than positive experiences with illegal aliens and I've taken my fair share of lumps from their illegal presence here, both physically, financially, and within my former trade in the sign industry.
You continue to hold that this is a racial issue for the majority of us who are pro-legal immigration.
I submit to you that you are so blinded by your own bigotry and prejudice toward any person who favors national sovereignty that you cannot see the forest for the trees.
Last edited by madicarus2000; 06-05-2008 at 09:24 PM..
Reason: inappropriate comments
And; if a Mestizo whose family hails from Mexico wishes to throw the 'race card'------Kele can come back with a bigger race card. She is part Apache Indian; who are indigenous to what is now the USA-----Aztecs never were.
amc760 is getting desperate. Before he used to try to put up a good argument (even though he always failed). But now he's not even trying, he's just bickering just to throw confusion into the matter.
amc760 is getting desperate. Before he used to try to put up a good argument (even though he always failed). But now he's not even trying, he's just bickering just to throw confusion into the matter.
Do you borrow all of your vocabulary from AzBear? Don't confuse desperation with frustration.
My earlier arguments were more of an attemt to be civil and try to discuss and even to explain.
But as the discussions have started to become a bit more centered around Mexicans, the identity of Mexicans, the racism of Mexicans as opposed to the racism of Anglo Whites, etc its just gotten more personal.
I find myself here defending my people, because people are starting to make it sound like its The United States of America vs. people of Mexican descent.
The discussion has inevitably gone from immigration LAWS, where it should be, to all the faults of the Mexican people.
And I'm not trying to hide my outrage anymore as a voting, taxpaying United States citizen who is proud of his Mexican heritage, whos grandparents are Mexican immigrants, and who STILL has much family in Mexico.
Im a U.S. Citizen who is getting infuriated by stuff like this:
And while Im sure many of you are legitimately concerned about the problem of illegal immigration, I'm sure some of you have the attitude of that guy in the video carrying his American flag. Go reform immigration laws, and stop worrying about the faults of Mexican people, because American's have plenty.
Do you borrow all of your vocabulary from AzBear? Don't confuse desperation with frustration.
My earlier arguments were more of an attemt to be civil and try to discuss and even to explain.
But as the discussions have started to become a bit more centered around Mexicans, the identity of Mexicans, the racism of Mexicans as opposed to the racism of Anglo Whites, etc its just gotten more personal.
I find myself here defending my people, because people are starting to make it sound like its The United States of America vs. people of Mexican descent.
The discussion has inevitably gone from immigration LAWS, where it should be, to all the faults of the Mexican people.
And I'm not trying to hide my outrage anymore as a voting, taxpaying United States citizen who is proud of his Mexican heritage, whos grandparents are Mexican immigrants, and who STILL has much family in Mexico.
Im a U.S. Citizen who is getting infuriated by stuff like this:
And while Im sure many of you are legitimately concerned about the problem of illegal immigration, I'm sure some of you have the attitude of that guy in the video carrying his American flag. Go reform immigration laws, and stop worrying about the faults of Mexican people, because American's have plenty.
Nice try, blaming that farcical nonsense on the Minutemen. I happen to know who shot the video and the person in the video making a jackass out of himself. They were both forcibly ejected from a pro-legal immigration group in Southern California for their white separatist leanings. They have never had anything to do with the Minutemen and indeed would be rejected by that group for their racist and whacko beliefs. Dennis can't even draw in a core group of more than two or three other whackos who share his beliefs.
Nice try, blaming that farcical nonsense on the Minutemen. I happen to know who shot the video and the person in the video making a jackass out of himself. They were both forcibly ejected from a pro-legal immigration group in Southern California for their white separatist leanings. They have never had anything to do with the Minutemen and indeed would be rejected by that group for their racist and whacko beliefs. Dennis can't even draw in a core group of more than two or three other whackos who share his beliefs.
They ARE NOT Minutemen.
And what about Gilchrist allowing Storm Front members to attend meetings?
Not all anti-illegals are racists,
but I bet all racists are anti-illegal.
I dont trust any group who's goal is to remove or harass people of color, sticking cameras in people's faces while taunting them, then editing the video later and calling it assault. and yes these immigrants are people of color. All though there may be some good people in these groups, the whole anti-hispanic and vigilante aspects dont attract the kind of people i'd like to associate with.
And I do believe many in the groups are anti-hispanic. Even with your puppet Lupe Moreno.
People who lobby and want to make change in the government regarding immigration laws, on the other hand, have more of my respect.
All racists are not anti illegal - Mecha, for instance, I am sure has no problem with illegals.
And why only indignant about those whose goal is to remove or harass people of color? Are they the only ones who deserve your sympathy? Just last week, one of the CD posters was confronted by a pro-illegal and asked to "leave" if they didn't like it. Where is your indignation there?
And what about Gilchrist allowing Storm Front members to attend meetings?
Not all anti-illegals are racists,
but I bet all racists are anti-illegal.
I dont trust any group who's goal is to remove or harass people of color, sticking cameras in people's faces while taunting them, then editing the video later and calling it assault. and yes these immigrants are people of color. All though there may be some good people in these groups, the whole anti-hispanic and vigilante aspects dont attract the kind of people i'd like to associate with.
And I do believe many in the groups are anti-hispanic. Even with your puppet Lupe Moreno.
People who lobby and want to make change in the government regarding immigration laws, on the other hand, have more of my respect.
Gilchrist was long ago booted from the Minuteman Project. He showed his true colors and agenda when he endorsed Huckabee, the open borders loving Republican candidate for President. It was the last desperate act of a desperate man who had been embezzling money from the MMP for some time. He has no credibility within the Pro-Legal Immigration movement and hasn't for quite awhile.
I know many, many more Hispanic people in the pro-legal immigration movement than Lupe, who is no more a "puppet" for the pro-legal immigration movement than any of the other people of Hispanic descent who are involved in this movement. The group "You Don't Speak for Me" comes to mind: You Don't Speak for Me (http://dontspeakforme.org/ - broken link)
BTW, do you know Lupe? I do. I don't think she would take to highly to being called a "puppet" for anyone. She is a woman of very strongly held beliefs as are the many people she affiliates herself with--people of ALL colors.
You may find a few fringe elements who are anti Hispanic. There are probably also some who are anti Jewish, anti Ethiopian, or anti Martian. I've met and stood with many, many people in this movement. I've found only a few who were in the movement for the wrong reasons. The vast majority of them want nothing more than for the government to enforce the sovereignty of the United States of America, to enforce our CURRENT laws, and to secure our borders.
I think it is extremely narrow-minded and prejudicial for you to attempt to paint all or the majority of those in the pro-legal immigration movement as anti-anything but anti-illegal immigration.
As far as all racists being anti-illegal immigration--La Raza and MEChA come to mind....
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