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Old 06-06-2008, 08:07 PM
 
Location: North Side of Indy, IN
1,965 posts, read 2,373,599 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frenchman View Post
I'm pretty much anti-human these days, what does that make me? A beast? A monster? Baby eater?
I think it might just make you pretty normal.
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Old 06-06-2008, 08:22 PM
 
Location: Sacramento
2,568 posts, read 5,839,397 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ArizonaBear View Post
And the ultimate irony is that Spain is now having a major illegal immigrant problem; mostly Africans but apparently, New World 'Hispanics' as well.
This is nothing new. Africans have been crossing the Straight of Gibraltar since I can remember. They use this falling apart boats called pateras. The difference is that before the Spanish economy wasn't that good so they would just pass through. Now there are staying. Yes there are more Latin-Americans going to Spain too. The reason being that there were no visa requirements to enter and since it was too expensive only the well off crossed the Atlantic. Now it is cheaper and Spain is having to be more strict with visas. Immigration is dynamic.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Politico View Post
I really never once thought of myself as a racist.
Do you think of people of other races are less than you. I myself was a foster mom to two adorable girls of Mexican descent. They were third generation. Well one day my neighbor saw me walking the dog with one of them. When I went to introduce her, he looked at her in discuss and said "Is she Mexican?". He looked at her like she was a rat or something and said that in front of her like she couldn't hear. That is racism. You can be upset and not like the way certain people live. You can blame it on a certain group even if it is unfair but can you be cruel to a child. An innocent child who did nothing to deserve that. How would you feel if someone did that to your child just because you are of a different race?
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Old 06-06-2008, 08:26 PM
 
4,135 posts, read 9,118,806 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by macmeal View Post
I hope you DON'T become a racist, though I can sympathize with your feelings (VERY well stated, I might add). What you're describing is the natural result of a breakdown in the system. Our society is VERY fragile here, though many of us (especially the young) take it for granted. It should NOT be, because I can guarantee you, the system we have here is NOT the 'natural lot' of mankind..AT ALL. Our system relies on ALL of us agreeing to be subject to our OWN laws...there is no "tyrant" here, no "dictator", no "supreme leader", no "secret police" to keep us in line....it's OUR job to do that, ALL of us....and we do that by treating "the law" as though it were a 'sacred thing', and by obeying it, whether it's convenient or NOT. That's what keeps the "freedom" and the "liberty" going. It's now beginning to break down, as your post indicates so well. When our 'fragile system' is finally discarded (because it can no longer 'maintain order'), it will be replaced. I shudder to think of WHAT it will be replaced with, but if it doesn't work, obviously it will be replaced...and my guess is that most of us won't like it when that happens.

Your situation is a DIRECT result of someone in high office, and those charged with the sacred duty of upholding our VERY BENIGN, VERY Tolerant, VERY Fair system of laws, who are choosing to simply IGNORE their duties...to ignore what they swore an OATH to do, and to simply ignore the law, because it 'suits them' to do so, and because they "can".

All the rest follows. The illegals arrive in droves, having NO CONCEPT of our system, (because no one's required them to learn), nor giving a "hoot" about it..it's not THEIR system. They come from places where the law is held in contempt (because in THEIR countries, the law really IS contemptible), and they quickly begin to assume a "right" to come here, and when they become frustrated and disappointed, they become angry and resentful. Our 'tolerant' society, so alien to the experience of most newcomers, is interpreted as meaning "nobody can tell ANYBODY what to do", and the place "really belongs to EVERYBODY"....(because "that's what the Statue of Liberty said"). Brilliant. Wonderful. Freedom for all, no questions asked. Abraham Lincoln and those other dudes said so, right? And didn't he force them to free their slaves or something like that?

Try to avoid racism. Put the blame where it belongs...your Congressman, your President, your elected officials, and the folks who lure these unwitting people here by offering them employment. THOSE people should (and DO) know better. The illegals come from places where one 'takes what he wants', unless he's stopped. That's the way life works in the Third World. Here, because nobody "stops" them, it's a signal to them that it's "OK". Most know better, and have some culpability. But the "Big Shots", the ones who ALLOW all this to go on, bear far MORE guilt, I believe. They know better, they know our laws (they even WRITE them), and they consciously choose to ignore them. Remember, the illegals never swore a sacred oath of loyalty to the United States...our elected officials DID.
Excellent description of the topic.
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Old 06-06-2008, 08:29 PM
Status: "Make America the Great Joke Again" (set 23 days ago)
 
Location: Denver
9,060 posts, read 15,470,148 times
Reputation: 5288
Quote:
I'm afraid it is starting to make me a racist person. I have a few Hispanic (El Salvadoran and Peruvian) friends through work, whom I enjoy the company of. However, I'm starting to notice that I hold animosity toward Hispanic people in general nowadays, where I didn't used to do so before I lived in the southwest.
Why do you hold it against them? I don't get that, Americans are raised to be more racially rational I would think. Unfortunately, many people are doing exactly what you are. I heard comments directed towards my wife (Who is American of 100% Mexican decent) that "she is pretty smart for a Mexican, and there really aren't that many smart Mexicans"...One of her work colleagues actually told me that. Little did he know I am also half Mexican.

Listen there are idiots and poor people of every race, why is that most people I see begging for change on the corner are White in America? That annoys the hell out of me. But does it make me hate them, no. I love all people honestly.

I am happy you are able minded to identify this problem, here is what I would recommend:

1) Open your mind to those Hispanic people at work, don't close them out.
2) Go out and meet some smart clean Mexican people (I know a bunch that live in Scottsdale that I went to ASU with).
3) Open your heart to them and realize that these are not demons.
4) To cure this downward spiral you need a change in perspective on Hispanics and it sounds like Mexicans in general. Come to San Diego, head to the Fashion Valley Mall and witness thousands of clean, educated Mexicans and assimilated Americans.
5) If you accept them and forgive those who annoy you, you will have a much easier life.

Breathe easy mi amigo!

"caras vemos, corazones no sabemos" = "faces we see, hearts we don't know"

Last edited by Mach50; 06-06-2008 at 08:41 PM..
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Old 06-06-2008, 09:31 PM
 
411 posts, read 700,033 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mach50 View Post
I love all people honestly.
3) Open your heart to them.
The heart is a muscular organ.
You love all people, dishonestly.
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Old 06-06-2008, 10:32 PM
 
47,576 posts, read 58,711,508 times
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I doubt it's racism -- unless the reason you don't appreciate them is directly related to their hair and eye color, skin tone and whatever racial characteristics they supposedly have.

It might just be that you don't want to live in a hispanic country, particularly Mexico and don't appreciate the way they come here and insist on living the same way they did back in the country they fled.

They aren't coming here to become Americans except for the benefits that provide, or to learn our language and fit into our culture.
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Old 06-06-2008, 10:37 PM
 
47,576 posts, read 58,711,508 times
Reputation: 22158
Quote:
Originally Posted by suzie02 View Post
This is nothing new. Africans have been crossing the Straight of Gibraltar since I can remember. They use this falling apart boats called pateras. The difference is that before the Spanish economy wasn't that good so they would just pass through. Now there are staying. Yes there are more Latin-Americans going to Spain too. The reason being that there were no visa requirements to enter and since it was too expensive only the well off crossed the Atlantic. Now it is cheaper and Spain is having to be more strict with visas. Immigration is dynamic.



Do you think of people of other races are less than you. I myself was a foster mom to two adorable girls of Mexican descent. They were third generation. Well one day my neighbor saw me walking the dog with one of them. When I went to introduce her, he looked at her in discuss and said "Is she Mexican?". He looked at her like she was a rat or something and said that in front of her like she couldn't hear. That is racism. You can be upset and not like the way certain people live. You can blame it on a certain group even if it is unfair but can you be cruel to a child. An innocent child who did nothing to deserve that. How would you feel if someone did that to your child just because you are of a different race?
Mexican isn't really a race, Mexico is simply a foreign country and a Mexican is a citizen of that country. Why would it be any more cruel to ask if someone is Mexican than to ask if they are Canadian? Or if they are from Germany to ask if they are German?
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Old 06-06-2008, 10:44 PM
 
Location: North Side of Indy, IN
1,965 posts, read 2,373,599 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by malamute View Post
Mexican isn't really a race, Mexico is simply a foreign country and a Mexican is a citizen of that country. Why would it be any more cruel to ask if someone is Mexican than to ask if they are Canadian? Or if they are from Germany to ask if they are German?
I was thinking the same thing. I think I understand what Suzie was trying to get at, but I don't think a neighbor asking her if her child is Mexican is necessarily racist, in and of itself, for the same reasons you stated above. I think nowadays, too many people think that "Mexican" is a bad word, and that people shouldn't refer to anyone as such. Because of the illegal immigration situation in our country, which largely involves Mexican immigrants, a negative connotation has been attached to the word "Mexican."

But like you said, a person asking, "Is she Mexican?" should be no more offensive than a person asking, "Is she French?" Nor should it be any more offensive to ask this of a child, than of an adult, which Suzie also seemed to take issue with. Shouldn't children be taught to be proud of their nationality, heritage, and ethnicity, and not to be offended when others simply refer to their country of origin or ethnicity by name, as Suzie's neighbor did?

But I digress from my own topic...

Last edited by Politico; 06-06-2008 at 10:54 PM..
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Old 06-06-2008, 10:54 PM
 
Location: Sacramento
2,568 posts, read 5,839,397 times
Reputation: 1905
Quote:
Originally Posted by Politico View Post
I was thinking the same thing. I think I understand what Suzie was trying to get at, but I don't think a neighbor asking her if her child is Mexican is necessarily racist, in and of itself, for the same reasons you stated above. I think nowadays, too many people think that "Mexican" is a bad word, and that people shouldn't refer to anyone as such. Because of the illegal immigrant situation in our country, which largely involves Mexican immigrants, a negative connotation has been attached to the word 'Mexican." But, like you said, a person asking, "Is she Mexican?" should be no more offensive than a person asking, "Is she French?"
It was his tone? And the way he looked at her? We were "dog" friends with them. She was our foster child and I was introducing her to him. He didn't acknowledge her or anything. My answer to him was "she is Hispanic like us" and I walked away. We never spoke to them again. BTW we were in Arizona so it was not a rarity to see a child of Mexican descent. Yes she is a US citizen as well as her parents and grandparents.

Last edited by suzie02; 06-06-2008 at 11:28 PM..
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Old 06-06-2008, 11:15 PM
 
8,973 posts, read 14,615,066 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Politico View Post
But like you said, a person asking, "Is she Mexican?" should be no more offensive than a person asking, "Is she French?" Nor should it be any more offensive to ask this of a child, than of an adult, which Suzie also seemed to take issue with. Shouldn't children be taught to be proud of their nationality, heritage, and ethnicity, and not to be offended when others simply refer to their country of origin or ethnicity by name, as Suzie's neighbor did?

But I digress from my own topic...
Theoretically, yes. Asking innocently as to one's origins should be a 'neutral' issue. Sometimes it IS, many times it's not. In the story about the foster child, mention was made of looking at her with 'disgust', etc. This, combimed with the "ethnic" question, could cause SOME folks to assume racism...or certainly to suspect it. Did the neighbor ask the foster mother's ethnicity, or her national origin?...and if not, why not?

My wife is an American Indian, who lives in California on the same parcel of land where her family has lived for about 140 years, before which time they "migrated" from an area about 8 miles away. She was born here, as were her ancestors, and they've been here since before there WAS a United States. Being a native California, of course, she "looks like a Mexican", and is often ASSUMED to be one, by Mexicans as well as 'others'.

Some years back, as we pulled up to a stop light, (I was driving, she was in the passenger seat), two young white marines pulled up beside us on a motorbike. The one on the rear barked rather abruptly at my wife (who was probably about the age of his mother), and asked in a Southern accent "Hey!! Speak English ?"

Because she has a terrific sense of humor, she just made a joke..."Oh. a little, I guess..now and then..if you make it simple.."...The guy got embarrassed, asked for directions, and we got a good laugh as they 'peeled' away, acting 'tough'.

Was it racism? I'm pretty sure it was. Did it ruin our lives? No, we get a lot of entertainment from such people.

But, for a more sensitive soul?...one who may be having a bad day?...this COULD have been very insulting.

So I'll say, in this case, I can't PROVE it was racism...but I'll bet this young Southern marine didn't habitually approach strangers in Southern California by asking whether they "spoke English". I'll bet he only asked that of SOME people here. You're free to interpret THAT any way you like....
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