U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies > Illegal Immigration
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 06-06-2008, 11:21 PM
 
Location: North Side of Indy, IN
1,965 posts, read 2,373,105 times
Reputation: 655

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by suzie02 View Post
He didn't acknowledge her or anything.
I'm sorry that your neighbor treated your daughter that way. It's not fair for anyone to be treated with disrespect such as that. I am the OP of this thread, and although I stated that I feel personal animosity toward Hispanics nowadays, due to my largely negative daily interactions with them over the course of the past four years, I would never outwardly treat anyone with disgust or rudeness, no matter what their ethnicity is. It's just not my personality to act that way, and it makes me uncomfortable that so many people have no problem with treating others that way.

Quote:
Originally Posted by suzie02 View Post
BTW we were in Arizona so it was a rarity to see a child of Mexican descent.
???? Which part of AZ were you living in??? Here in Phoenix, it is certainly NOT a rarity to see a child of Mexican descent.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 06-06-2008, 11:29 PM
 
Location: Sacramento
2,568 posts, read 5,837,600 times
Reputation: 1905
Quote:
Originally Posted by Politico View Post
???? Which part of AZ were you living in??? Here in Phoenix, it is certainly NOT a rarity to see a child of Mexican descent.
Oops that was a typo. I corrected it. We were in Tucson and these children did not speak Spanish.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-06-2008, 11:43 PM
 
5,757 posts, read 13,320,646 times
Reputation: 4523
Politico, I think you're having a natural reaction to an extreme situation. I can relate. I'm white, and had a nice clean middle-class upbringing, and was taught that it's best to be color-blind, etc., then grew up and got out into the real world, where I had the dual experiences of being personally acquainted with unapologetic bigots and finding that they were regular folks who were not terrible in every way, and encountering the prejudices of black people who made it clear that they automatically and categorically had no use for me, simply because of my race. Both kinds of experiences had my head spinning, making me feel as if this was nothing like the nice, squeaky-clean values I had always been taught.

For a number of years I was overwhelmed by how different the real world was from the sugar-coated ideals that were all I had been taught growing up. That feeling of being overwhelmed led to anger, which in turn led to some fairly intense feelings of prejudice. From your description of the views you were exposed to growing up, it sounds as if you may be having a similar experience. If your experience continues to be like mine, you'll work through it. You'll come to the honest understanding that we all have our prejudices, yet most people find it in themselves to ultimately try and do what is right. And you're likely to find that you recognize the situation that has sparked these feelings as an extreme situation, which naturally leads to some intense feelings, but also to become more realistic about the difference between some individuals who may deserve to be viewed negatively and the reality that this does not mean that all individuals of that same race deserve to be held in disdain. I know it's probably kind of a new and overwhelming situation, but the very fact that you're concerned enough to start this discussion tells me that down inside you'll always stay in touch with what you basically know is right.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-07-2008, 12:26 AM
 
Location: California
3,172 posts, read 5,993,791 times
Reputation: 332
While Mexians and especially Hispanics come in all races, from white to asian to black, the majority of Mexicans in this country are a mix of Indigenous and Spanish. AKA Mestizo.
Most Mexicans share certain characteristics that are distinct in appearance from so called "pure" Europeans.
Whether or not there is no certain race, just like there is no certain language in Mexico, it IS possible to be racist against Mexicans..believe it or not.
Definitely not everyone is racist against brown skinned Latinos, but you better believe there are some.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-07-2008, 04:49 AM
 
Location: Northern VA (for now)
23,000 posts, read 31,942,334 times
Reputation: 30377
Quote:
Originally Posted by Politico View Post
I grew up in the midwest, where probably 75% of my hometown was white, 24% black, and 1% everyone else. My parents taught me to be an accepting, open-minded, tolerant person. I had white friends and black friends, Christian friends and Jewish friends, rich friends and not-so-wealthy friends, gay friends and straight friends. I went to college in the mid-west, as well, where I had an even broader distribution of friends. I really never once thought of myself as a racist. I would even find myself cringing when someone told a racist joke, or used the n-word around me. I could go on and on, but I think you probably get my point, right?

Well, 6 years ago I moved to Los Angeles, where I lived for 2 years before moving to Phoenix, where I have lived for the past 4 years. Ever since my relocation to the southwest, I find myself becoming less and less tolerant towards Hispanics, and it is starting to worry me.

If another Hispanic person who doesn't speak a word of English (an indicator of one's possible illegal status, though I realize it's not a definite indicator) rings my doorbell at 8am to use hand signals to learn whether or not I'd like for him and his "crew" to weed my yard...If my husband is rear-ended one more time by a person who speaks no English, doesn't have a driver's license, and doesn't carry auto insurance...If I have to wait for four hours in the emergency room one more time, due to a waiting-roomful of non-English speaking Hispanic people who have brought their six children in for free treatment of non-emergency medical problems. (I say "free," because it's "free" for the majority of them, due to their overwhelming unwillingness to pay for said treatment, and an ER won't turn them away. Hospitals in this area have had to close down due to this exact problem. If you don't think this is an issue, try having an actual medical emergency in Phoenix sometime.)...If I have to witness one more time, on my local news, reports of tens of thousands of illegal Mexican immigrants "demonstrating" downtown, and demanding rights from the governement of a country they are residing in illegally...If I hear one more report of a police officer or other public servant being harrassed, hurt, or killed by an illegal Hispanic immigrant...If I have to witness one more of my friends or family members who live in nice, well-kept neighborhoods have to deal with a particular home on their street where, quite literally, dozens of Hispanic people (ie multiple families) are living in one three-bedroom, two-bathroom home...If I have to hear one more conversation in Spanish between two people who are laughing at and mocking one or more of the English-speaking people nearby, because the speakers know that what they're saying will not be understood by the people around them.....

I think I might scream.

There are so many more examples I could give, but this gives an idea of what people in the southwest and other parts of the country are dealing with on a daily basis. For the most part, we (southwesterners) don't just hear of these illegal immigrants or Mexican immigrants or undocumented workers every-once-in-a-while on CNN, or read about them in the paper, or on forums such as city-data. We see these things happening in our neighborhoods, grocery stores, banks, schools, workplaces, on our roads, and in and around our cities every day.

Living in Phoenix, and having to deal with the VERY REAL problem of illegal Mexican and other Hispanic immigrants as a part of my day-to-day life has just become so exhausting, irritating, costly, demanding, alienating, etc, I'm afraid it is starting to make me a racist person. I have a few Hispanic (El Salvadoran and Peruvian) friends through work, whom I enjoy the company of. However, I'm starting to notice that I hold animosity toward Hispanic people in general nowadays, where I didn't used to do so before I lived in the southwest. It scares me, and it saddens me that someone like me, who used to be so tolerant and forgiving, who is educated and involved in the community, has started to see people of a certain race this way. I try not to, but there just comes a point when enough is enough.

Any opinions, whether positive or negative, would be appreciated.
To be honest, i'm sorta going through the same thing now. Except i grew up in 45% black and 45% white Hampton, VA. the biggest minority after blacks were asians. Hispanics there were very few and far between and they NEVER gave me any problems. Living in Hampton did not prepare me for when i moved to Alexandria, VA. As i mentioned the hispanics in Hampton were very well assimlated, very sadly, i can't say that for most of Alexandria's hispanics. It tears me up when 70% of my hispanic customers can't even go through a simple transaction in english.

To some, my feelings may be justified because as an african-american my ancestors were the only ones to not voluntarily come to the US and no group (IMHO) has had more racism directed toward it than african-americans. I refuse to justify myself with those reasons. I'm a Christian and i believe that God made every human with their respective skin color and nationality for a reason and God makes his feelings very clear on prejudice and judging. I also feel if these feelings persist than the actions of my lifelong hero MLK will go in vain for me.

So hopefully i can deal with these feelings with the help of God and some of the great hispanics in my inner circle. However, i will still believe that immigration must be done with standards and laws.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-07-2008, 09:00 AM
 
47,576 posts, read 58,690,207 times
Reputation: 22158
Quote:
Originally Posted by amc760 View Post
While Mexians and especially Hispanics come in all races, from white to asian to black, the majority of Mexicans in this country are a mix of Indigenous and Spanish. AKA Mestizo.
Most Mexicans share certain characteristics that are distinct in appearance from so called "pure" Europeans.
Whether or not there is no certain race, just like there is no certain language in Mexico, it IS possible to be racist against Mexicans..believe it or not.
Definitely not everyone is racist against brown skinned Latinos, but you better believe there are some.
It's just as possible to be racist against Americans.

It's like the slurs "gringo" and "anglo", looking at someone and referring to them as an anglo or gringo. If Americans travel to Mexico, someone there might comment or ask about them being a gringo. So what?

Asking if some child is a Mexican, or a German, or a black American is not really racist. Or it might be racist but for some reason, people like to categorize by race. It's just as common for Mexicans to do this to Americans.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-07-2008, 09:29 AM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,807,269 times
Reputation: 3028
Quote:
Originally Posted by macmeal View Post
I hope you DON'T become a racist, though I can sympathize with your feelings (VERY well stated, I might add). What you're describing is the natural result of a breakdown in the system. Our society is VERY fragile here, though many of us (especially the young) take it for granted. It should NOT be, because I can guarantee you, the system we have here is NOT the 'natural lot' of mankind..AT ALL. Our system relies on ALL of us agreeing to be subject to our OWN laws...there is no "tyrant" here, no "dictator", no "supreme leader", no "secret police" to keep us in line....it's OUR job to do that, ALL of us....and we do that by treating "the law" as though it were a 'sacred thing', and by obeying it, whether it's convenient or NOT. That's what keeps the "freedom" and the "liberty" going. It's now beginning to break down, as your post indicates so well. When our 'fragile system' is finally discarded (because it can no longer 'maintain order'), it will be replaced. I shudder to think of WHAT it will be replaced with, but if it doesn't work, obviously it will be replaced...and my guess is that most of us won't like it when that happens.

Your situation is a DIRECT result of someone in high office, and those charged with the sacred duty of upholding our VERY BENIGN, VERY Tolerant, VERY Fair system of laws, who are choosing to simply IGNORE their duties...to ignore what they swore an OATH to do, and to simply ignore the law, because it 'suits them' to do so, and because they "can".

All the rest follows. The illegals arrive in droves, having NO CONCEPT of our system, (because no one's required them to learn), nor giving a "hoot" about it..it's not THEIR system. They come from places where the law is held in contempt (because in THEIR countries, the law really IS contemptible), and they quickly begin to assume a "right" to come here, and when they become frustrated and disappointed, they become angry and resentful. Our 'tolerant' society, so alien to the experience of most newcomers, is interpreted as meaning "nobody can tell ANYBODY what to do", and the place "really belongs to EVERYBODY"....(because "that's what the Statue of Liberty said"). Brilliant. Wonderful. Freedom for all, no questions asked. Abraham Lincoln and those other dudes said so, right? And didn't he force them to free their slaves or something like that?

Try to avoid racism. Put the blame where it belongs...your Congressman, your President, your elected officials, and the folks who lure these unwitting people here by offering them employment. THOSE people should (and DO) know better. The illegals come from places where one 'takes what he wants', unless he's stopped. That's the way life works in the Third World. Here, because nobody "stops" them, it's a signal to them that it's "OK". Most know better, and have some culpability. But the "Big Shots", the ones who ALLOW all this to go on, bear far MORE guilt, I believe. They know better, they know our laws (they even WRITE them), and they consciously choose to ignore them. Remember, the illegals never swore a sacred oath of loyalty to the United States...our elected officials DID.
Impeccable post, macmeal! Done with such precision, there really isn’t much to expound on.

Politico, you have eloquently conveyed the feelings of millions of citizens across this nation. I don’t consider you a racist, because IMO racism has no rationale, and is a baseless aversion. Conversely, you are experiencing a justifiable level of frustration that is being exacerbated by the pandering and corruption of our government. These feelings are further compounded by the flagrant arrogance and sense of entitlement prevalent among many illegal aliens. The fact that the majority of illegals are ‘Hispanic’ and you have simply had enough, does not qualify as racism.

Your feelings of dismay at what you perceive as impending racism, is a glaring indication that you are NOT a racist. A racist always justifies hatred, and wouldn’t feel even a tinge of guilt.

Stay apprised of pending legislation pertaining to illegal immigration. Call, fax, and email ALL of our members of Congress, starting with your state representatives. Be encouraged by the fact that anti-illegal immigration activists have been instrumental in defeating many amnesty-laden bills, and that states are enacting immigration laws at an unprecedented rate. Your activism may also stem some of your feelings of hopelessness. Hang in there, and don’t give up. You are not alone in your frustration.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-07-2008, 09:46 AM
 
8,973 posts, read 14,610,630 times
Reputation: 2983
Quote:
Originally Posted by amc760 View Post
While Mexians and especially Hispanics come in all races, from white to asian to black, the majority of Mexicans in this country are a mix of Indigenous and Spanish. AKA Mestizo.
Most Mexicans share certain characteristics that are distinct in appearance from so called "pure" Europeans.
Whether or not there is no certain race, just like there is no certain language in Mexico, it IS possible to be racist against Mexicans..believe it or not.
Definitely not everyone is racist against brown skinned Latinos, but you better believe there are some.
This is absolutely true, and I couldn't agree more. And the presence of massive numbers of illegals, heavily represented by ONE country, (the one you just mentioned), to the fantastic point that about 10% of that "country" has now packed up and moved HERE (and it's not a LITTLE country, either), makes the 'racists' all the worse, by giving them "fuel" and credibility.

Racists can be 'racists' without any particular reason. They just pick out a group and decide to hate them....simple. But it's a racist's "dream come true" when he can find something ELSE in his 'target group' to dislike, other than just 'race'. And in THIS case, it's there. Not only are Mexicans guilty of being Mexican (the racists hate that fact, remember), a HUGE number of Mexicans are ALSO guilty of something ELSE....being in this country illegally. When they do THAT, they succeed in making even the "non-racists" mad at them. It takes a real racist to hate someone for their race. But ANYBODY can get mad at a lawbreaker.

Can we "prove" who the lawbreakers are, just by looking at them on the street? Of course not. But it takes an effort NOT to judge in this way, and that's the effort (and struggle) the OP was referring to. If not for the massive illegal crisis, I'm pretty sure our OP wouldn't be "worried about becoming a racist" at all.

The REAL racists aren't worried...they're already racists. It's the good people like the OP, who find all this so disturbing.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-07-2008, 10:49 AM
 
Location: Surprise, Az
3,496 posts, read 8,340,555 times
Reputation: 1832
Quote:
But, like you said, a person asking, "Is she Mexican?" should be no more offensive than a person asking, "Is she French?"
Of course it can offensive!! None of us were there!!

90% of communication is unspoken...obviously she picked up on some cues...tone of voice, body language. Not very hard to pick up on these cues...
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-07-2008, 11:24 AM
 
Location: Mesa, Az
21,148 posts, read 36,611,035 times
Reputation: 3785
Quote:
Originally Posted by ibarrio View Post
Of course it can offensive!! None of us were there!!

90% of communication is unspoken...obviously she picked up on some cues...tone of voice, body language. Not very hard to pick up on these cues...
I almost committed a faux pas in Kingman about 4 years ago.

A lady walked into a coffeehouse; she looked like a stereotypical Latina, I politely said something to her, when she replied------an English accent came out.

The woman was from the UK so definitely an Anglo. She may have been of Spanish or Italian heritage admittedly but still.......

In fact: check out this festival; Carnaval del Pueblo......it is held in London every year. It is a 'Hispanic' themed event.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies > Illegal Immigration
Similar Threads
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2018, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top