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Old 06-06-2008, 05:10 PM
 
Location: North Side of Indy, IN
1,965 posts, read 2,373,315 times
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I grew up in the midwest, where probably 75% of my hometown was white, 24% black, and 1% everyone else. My parents taught me to be an accepting, open-minded, tolerant person. I had white friends and black friends, Christian friends and Jewish friends, rich friends and not-so-wealthy friends, gay friends and straight friends. I went to college in the mid-west, as well, where I had an even broader distribution of friends. I really never once thought of myself as a racist. I would even find myself cringing when someone told a racist joke, or used the n-word around me. I could go on and on, but I think you probably get my point, right?

Well, 6 years ago I moved to Los Angeles, where I lived for 2 years before moving to Phoenix, where I have lived for the past 4 years. Ever since my relocation to the southwest, I find myself becoming less and less tolerant towards Hispanics, and it is starting to worry me.

If another Hispanic person who doesn't speak a word of English (an indicator of one's possible illegal status, though I realize it's not a definite indicator) rings my doorbell at 8am to use hand signals to learn whether or not I'd like for him and his "crew" to weed my yard...If my husband is rear-ended one more time by a person who speaks no English, doesn't have a driver's license, and doesn't carry auto insurance...If I have to wait for four hours in the emergency room one more time, due to a waiting-roomful of non-English speaking Hispanic people who have brought their six children in for free treatment of non-emergency medical problems. (I say "free," because it's "free" for the majority of them, due to their overwhelming unwillingness to pay for said treatment, and an ER won't turn them away. Hospitals in this area have had to close down due to this exact problem. If you don't think this is an issue, try having an actual medical emergency in Phoenix sometime.)...If I have to witness one more time, on my local news, reports of tens of thousands of illegal Mexican immigrants "demonstrating" downtown, and demanding rights from the governement of a country they are residing in illegally...If I hear one more report of a police officer or other public servant being harrassed, hurt, or killed by an illegal Hispanic immigrant...If I have to witness one more of my friends or family members who live in nice, well-kept neighborhoods have to deal with a particular home on their street where, quite literally, dozens of Hispanic people (ie multiple families) are living in one three-bedroom, two-bathroom home...If I have to hear one more conversation in Spanish between two people who are laughing at and mocking one or more of the English-speaking people nearby, because the speakers know that what they're saying will not be understood by the people around them.....

I think I might scream.

There are so many more examples I could give, but this gives an idea of what people in the southwest and other parts of the country are dealing with on a daily basis. For the most part, we (southwesterners) don't just hear of these illegal immigrants or Mexican immigrants or undocumented workers every-once-in-a-while on CNN, or read about them in the paper, or on forums such as city-data. We see these things happening in our neighborhoods, grocery stores, banks, schools, workplaces, on our roads, and in and around our cities every day.

Living in Phoenix, and having to deal with the VERY REAL problem of illegal Mexican and other Hispanic immigrants as a part of my day-to-day life has just become so exhausting, irritating, costly, demanding, alienating, etc, I'm afraid it is starting to make me a racist person. I have a few Hispanic (El Salvadoran and Peruvian) friends through work, whom I enjoy the company of. However, I'm starting to notice that I hold animosity toward Hispanic people in general nowadays, where I didn't used to do so before I lived in the southwest. It scares me, and it saddens me that someone like me, who used to be so tolerant and forgiving, who is educated and involved in the community, has started to see people of a certain race this way. I try not to, but there just comes a point when enough is enough.

Any opinions, whether positive or negative, would be appreciated.
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Old 06-06-2008, 05:59 PM
 
Location: Mesa, Az
21,148 posts, read 36,615,542 times
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Trust me:

I know of what you speak of there....and, I was born/raised in the Wash DC area which ain't exactly 100% 'lily White' either. I had friends of all races/ethnicities there. Note I left off 'Hispanic' because in the 1960's-70's they were counted as 'White'----much like dark skinned Arabs, Italians, etc.

What does concern me is innocent people (of any race/ethnicity) who look stereotypically 'Hispanic' AKA Mestizo getting caught in the crossfire.
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Old 06-06-2008, 06:01 PM
 
1,448 posts, read 2,658,155 times
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If millions of poor white uneducated immigrants were flooding into Mexico and doing the same I believe the feelings would be mutual among many Mexicans.
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Old 06-06-2008, 06:12 PM
 
Location: Mesa, Az
21,148 posts, read 36,615,542 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by High Springs Gator View Post
If millions of poor white uneducated immigrants were flooding into Mexico and doing the same I believe the feelings would be mutual among many Mexicans.
Yeppers........

And the ultimate irony is that Spain is now having a major illegal immigrant problem; mostly Africans but apparently, New World 'Hispanics' as well.
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Old 06-06-2008, 06:36 PM
 
8,973 posts, read 14,612,395 times
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I hope you DON'T become a racist, though I can sympathize with your feelings (VERY well stated, I might add). What you're describing is the natural result of a breakdown in the system. Our society is VERY fragile here, though many of us (especially the young) take it for granted. It should NOT be, because I can guarantee you, the system we have here is NOT the 'natural lot' of mankind..AT ALL. Our system relies on ALL of us agreeing to be subject to our OWN laws...there is no "tyrant" here, no "dictator", no "supreme leader", no "secret police" to keep us in line....it's OUR job to do that, ALL of us....and we do that by treating "the law" as though it were a 'sacred thing', and by obeying it, whether it's convenient or NOT. That's what keeps the "freedom" and the "liberty" going. It's now beginning to break down, as your post indicates so well. When our 'fragile system' is finally discarded (because it can no longer 'maintain order'), it will be replaced. I shudder to think of WHAT it will be replaced with, but if it doesn't work, obviously it will be replaced...and my guess is that most of us won't like it when that happens.

Your situation is a DIRECT result of someone in high office, and those charged with the sacred duty of upholding our VERY BENIGN, VERY Tolerant, VERY Fair system of laws, who are choosing to simply IGNORE their duties...to ignore what they swore an OATH to do, and to simply ignore the law, because it 'suits them' to do so, and because they "can".

All the rest follows. The illegals arrive in droves, having NO CONCEPT of our system, (because no one's required them to learn), nor giving a "hoot" about it..it's not THEIR system. They come from places where the law is held in contempt (because in THEIR countries, the law really IS contemptible), and they quickly begin to assume a "right" to come here, and when they become frustrated and disappointed, they become angry and resentful. Our 'tolerant' society, so alien to the experience of most newcomers, is interpreted as meaning "nobody can tell ANYBODY what to do", and the place "really belongs to EVERYBODY"....(because "that's what the Statue of Liberty said"). Brilliant. Wonderful. Freedom for all, no questions asked. Abraham Lincoln and those other dudes said so, right? And didn't he force them to free their slaves or something like that?

Try to avoid racism. Put the blame where it belongs...your Congressman, your President, your elected officials, and the folks who lure these unwitting people here by offering them employment. THOSE people should (and DO) know better. The illegals come from places where one 'takes what he wants', unless he's stopped. That's the way life works in the Third World. Here, because nobody "stops" them, it's a signal to them that it's "OK". Most know better, and have some culpability. But the "Big Shots", the ones who ALLOW all this to go on, bear far MORE guilt, I believe. They know better, they know our laws (they even WRITE them), and they consciously choose to ignore them. Remember, the illegals never swore a sacred oath of loyalty to the United States...our elected officials DID.
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Old 06-06-2008, 06:51 PM
 
Location: Mesa, Az
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macmeal encapsulated that subject in a nutshell------very cut and dried.
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Old 06-06-2008, 07:03 PM
 
Location: Pa
20,310 posts, read 18,881,481 times
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Once again Mac sums it up to perfection..
I am not afraid of becoming racist. I am more afraid of being labeled something that I am not. In todays political climate a racist is any white who doesn't feel all of the worlds problems are the white mans fault.
Sorry but I believe in personal accountability. No one forces anyone to commit crimes. That is a choice the criminal makes on their own. No one forces ethnic groups to form violent gangs. No one forced illegals to cross our border and commit the various crimes they commit. That too was choice.
What I detest is the idea that is racist to point out that illegals should not be rewarded. That its racist to feel they should be deported. That its racist to point out that the majority of illegals came across our southern border. Why are facts racist? I don't know, and I hope I never understand it. If that day happens then the loons will have succeeded in making me as whacked as they are.
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Old 06-06-2008, 07:12 PM
 
Location: South Fla
1,044 posts, read 1,722,379 times
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I am in agreement with macmeal, my opinion on the subject has evolved somewhat due in part to my experiences which are similar to the OP. I grew up in Baltimore, black/white were pretty much the only choices, a few Middle Eastern and Asian as well, Jew/Christian, gay/straight, whatever. I was actually excited to come down here to South Florida so that I could experience the various cultures that call South Florida home, well there are some positives and of course the negatives as well.

I truly hope that you don't become a racist, there are many legal citizens that are hispanic who respect the law and they should be welcomed and not discriminated upon at all.

I do think that a willingness to assimilate is essential, I certainly respect people's cultures, but they must also respect ours. Learning english is at the top of this list.

It's pretty rare that I feel anger at this, I guess I am just sort of accepting of it and therefore I feel anger would be wasteful, I am really not sure what can be done.
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Old 06-06-2008, 07:37 PM
 
Location: Mesa, Az
21,148 posts, read 36,615,542 times
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And the irony is there is no actual 'Hispanic' race--------they range from Nordic White blue eyes blondes to Black with everything in between.

Anymore: 'Hispanic/Latino' are becoming code words for indigenous/mixed race New World people who have a significant archaic Spanish based culture. More and more; today's Spaniards are showing fewer and fewer stereotypical Hispanic traits----Spain's way of life is, if anything, reflecting Scandinavian beliefs as in lack of machismo, respect for women, etc.
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Old 06-06-2008, 08:03 PM
 
34,990 posts, read 33,858,849 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by macmeal View Post
I hope you DON'T become a racist, though I can sympathize with your feelings (VERY well stated, I might add). What you're describing is the natural result of a breakdown in the system. Our society is VERY fragile here, though many of us (especially the young) take it for granted. It should NOT be, because I can guarantee you, the system we have here is NOT the 'natural lot' of mankind..AT ALL.
...

Try to avoid racism. Put the blame where it belongs...your Congressman, your President, your elected officials, and the folks who lure these unwitting people here by offering them employment. THOSE people should (and DO) know better. The illegals come from places where one 'takes what he wants', unless he's stopped. That's the way life works in the Third World. Here, because nobody "stops" them, it's a signal to them that it's "OK". Most know better, and have some culpability. But the "Big Shots", the ones who ALLOW all this to go on, bear far MORE guilt, I believe. They know better, they know our laws (they even WRITE them), and they consciously choose to ignore them. Remember, the illegals never swore a sacred oath of loyalty to the United States...our elected officials DID.
"that's what the Statue of Liberty said"

Brilliant post! You could do this for a living.
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