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Old 05-25-2008, 03:31 PM
 
Location: Mesa, Az
21,148 posts, read 36,622,458 times
Reputation: 3785

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Quote:
Originally Posted by amc760 View Post
Whats racist in the "manifesto"? Can you point that out for me?


Stop comparing the KKK to minority organizations, please. Different reasons for formation, and different causes. You anglos are getting a little too comfortable with that comparison there.
Quote:
1) We are Chicanas and Chicanos of Aztlán reclaiming the land of our birth (Chicana/Chicano Nation); 2) Aztlán belongs to indigenous people, who are sovereign and not subject to a foreign culture; 3) We are a union of free pueblos forming a bronze (Chicana/Chicano) Nation; 4) Chicano nationalism, as the key to mobilization and organization, is the common denominator to bring consensus to the Chicana/Chicano Movement;
National MEChA: The Philosophy of MEChA

Sounds awfully close to the Klan to me.

To those who expouse 'La Raza' beliefs-------we are onto your game now.

Besides: such 'MEChA' nonsense is a slap at Hispanic culture as well------due to it excluding Spaniards, Dominicans and any other non Indian/Mestizo Latino group.

The epitome of hypocrisy is the use of the language of the conquistadors by a bunch of 'Brown Pride' fans: Por La Raza toda (for the 'race', everything).
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Old 05-25-2008, 04:19 PM
 
Location: California
3,172 posts, read 5,995,777 times
Reputation: 332
Quote:
Originally Posted by ArizonaBear View Post
National MEChA: The Philosophy of MEChA

Sounds awfully close to the Klan to me.

To those who expouse 'La Raza' beliefs-------we are onto your game now.

Besides: such 'MEChA' nonsense is a slap at Hispanic culture as well------due to it excluding Spaniards, Dominicans and any other non Indian/Mestizo Latino group.

The epitome of hypocrisy is the use of the language of the conquistadors by a bunch of 'Brown Pride' fans: Por La Raza toda (for the 'race', everything).
that qoute is taken from a paragraph describing the founding of the group and is discussing some things that were discussed during a meething they had in the 60s.


Most of the stuff I just read on that site seem to be talking more about the education and progression of Chicanos.

Chicanos have faced a lot in this country, and they seem to be promoting pride in identity and encouraging Chicano students to get educated and get involved in politics.
I am not against that.


Groups like this, right or wrong, were born out of necessity for the minority groups they represent. When you are a minority, and not looked at as favorable in the country you live, you need a reason to be proud and not just buckle down.

The KKK was hate group that formed because they didnt like Blacks, Jews, and other people. They had no reason to form so they could learn to be proud of their culture...white protestants are the majority and run the country! History books already talked about white American accomplishments, the media was already saturated with positive images of white Americans.

I can't believe you would compare that. Right or wrong, minorities have a right to organize and be proud of their culture and identity,
With out that pride, we would be forced to try as hard as we could to fit in with the majority (i.e. white americans).
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Old 05-25-2008, 04:58 PM
 
47,576 posts, read 58,711,508 times
Reputation: 22158
Quote:
Originally Posted by amc760 View Post
that qoute is taken from a paragraph describing the founding of the group and is discussing some things that were discussed during a meething they had in the 60s.


Most of the stuff I just read on that site seem to be talking more about the education and progression of Chicanos.

Chicanos have faced a lot in this country, and they seem to be promoting pride in identity and encouraging Chicano students to get educated and get involved in politics.
I am not against that.


Groups like this, right or wrong, were born out of necessity for the minority groups they represent. When you are a minority, and not looked at as favorable in the country you live, you need a reason to be proud and not just buckle down.

The KKK was hate group that formed because they didnt like Blacks, Jews, and other people. They had no reason to form so they could learn to be proud of their culture...white protestants are the majority and run the country! History books already talked about white American accomplishments, the media was already saturated with positive images of white Americans.

I can't believe you would compare that. Right or wrong, minorities have a right to organize and be proud of their culture and identity,
With out that pride, we would be forced to try as hard as we could to fit in with the majority (i.e. white americans).
Hitler was also for education and the promotion of his Germans.

That doesn't mean this La Raza crap isn't extremely racist. The fact that they're promoting "chicanos" and not all Americans reveals what they are all about.

Yet -- you don't see them going into Mexico and doing anything for their people in their own country. They aren't really for the Mexican people at all, since there are still somewhat more of them in Mexico and they certainly don't show that they care about them if they stay home.

They are all about taking power in the USA.
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Old 05-25-2008, 05:42 PM
 
93 posts, read 297,393 times
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Speaking as a part native american myself, I find this MEChA stuff just as disturbing as the fascist anglo rhetoric that gets bandied about here in Arizona. What the hell is Aztlan, and how are you going to prove you are a pure descendant of that people, and how do you plan to draw a line delineating your native land? I am a mixed-blood Cherokee, and I'm all for fair treatment of all people, but I'm not marching to reclaim Georgia, my partial ancestral homeland!!!
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Old 05-25-2008, 05:43 PM
 
Location: California
3,172 posts, read 5,995,777 times
Reputation: 332
Quote:
Originally Posted by malamute View Post
Hitler was also for education and the promotion of his Germans.

That doesn't mean this La Raza crap isn't extremely racist. The fact that they're promoting "chicanos" and not all Americans reveals what they are all about.

Yet -- you don't see them going into Mexico and doing anything for their people in their own country. They aren't really for the Mexican people at all, since there are still somewhat more of them in Mexico and they certainly don't show that they care about them if they stay home.

They are all about taking power in the USA.
CHICANO=MEXICAN-AMERICAN.

Their country is AMERICA.


Now your comparing Mexicans to Hitler?? haha.


Why would they talk about all Americans? They formed at a time when Chicanos were very marginalized. The Blacks were fighting for their rights, successfully. They inspired many Chicanos to do the same.

Its mind boggling that you seem offended because your group isnt included in an organization that was formed to help out Chicanos.

They were encouraging Mexican-Americans to go to college and become involved in politics, because back then, America certainly wasnt!
They promoted a postive image of Mexican-Americans, giving them an identity to be proud of, because back then, America certainly wasn't!


Theres a couple of people on this board that seem to be against Mexican-Americans possesing any kind of identity. I dont understand it.
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Old 05-25-2008, 06:00 PM
 
Location: Mesa, Az
21,148 posts, read 36,622,458 times
Reputation: 3785
Quote:
Originally Posted by crewbank View Post
Speaking as a part native american myself, I find this MEChA stuff just as disturbing as the fascist anglo rhetoric that gets bandied about here in Arizona. What the hell is Aztlan, and how are you going to prove you are a pure descendant of that people, and how do you plan to draw a line delineating your native land? I am a mixed-blood Cherokee, and I'm all for fair treatment of all people, but I'm not marching to reclaim Georgia, my partial ancestral homeland!!!
Aztlan is a fraud: pure and simple.

The Aztec Indians did not even live in our present Southwest prior to the arrival of Cortez.

Many American Indians (Navajo, Hopi, Apache, etc); as you alluded to, have no love for the MEChA crowd for historical reasons.
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Old 05-25-2008, 06:04 PM
 
Location: Mesa, Az
21,148 posts, read 36,622,458 times
Reputation: 3785
Quote:
Originally Posted by amc760 View Post
CHICANO=MEXICAN-AMERICAN.

Their country is AMERICA.


Now your comparing Mexicans to Hitler?? haha.


Why would they talk about all Americans? They formed at a time when Chicanos were very marginalized. The Blacks were fighting for their rights, successfully. They inspired many Chicanos to do the same.

Its mind boggling that you seem offended because your group isnt included in an organization that was formed to help out Chicanos.

They were encouraging Mexican-Americans to go to college and become involved in politics, because back then, America certainly wasnt!
They promoted a postive image of Mexican-Americans, giving them an identity to be proud of, because back then, America certainly wasn't!


Theres a couple of people on this board that seem to be against Mexican-Americans possesing any kind of identity. I dont understand it.
I call BS on that:

Mexicans come in all races/ethnicities------along with Mexican-Americans.

Unless you are inferring that all Mexicans are Mestizo. Tell that to former Mx president Vincente Fox......he has no indigenous heritage.
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Old 05-25-2008, 06:18 PM
 
Location: California
3,172 posts, read 5,995,777 times
Reputation: 332
Quote:
Originally Posted by ArizonaBear View Post
I call BS on that:

Mexicans come in all races/ethnicities------along with Mexican-Americans.

Unless you are inferring that all Mexicans are Mestizo. Tell that to former Mx president Vincente Fox......he has no indigenous heritage.
Youre calling BS?

We have an identity in this country. Why is that so hard for you to comprehend?


Are you Mexican-American? Have you grown up in a Mexican-American community?

No. All you know is limited to what you read, and waht you hear from the handful of Mexicans you know. I call BS on your so called authority of what makes a Mexican-American in this country.

As far as Im concerned, your an outsider to the community who read a couple stats and feel you konw more than Mexican-Americans themselves. Find a poll or article that says how Mexican-Americans are segregated amongst themselves due to race.

Last edited by amc760; 05-25-2008 at 06:27 PM..
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Old 05-25-2008, 06:41 PM
 
Location: San Diego North County
4,800 posts, read 7,689,216 times
Reputation: 3010
Quote:
Originally Posted by crewbank View Post
Speaking as a part native american myself, I find this MEChA stuff just as disturbing as the fascist anglo rhetoric that gets bandied about here in Arizona. What the hell is Aztlan, and how are you going to prove you are a pure descendant of that people, and how do you plan to draw a line delineating your native land? I am a mixed-blood Cherokee, and I'm all for fair treatment of all people, but I'm not marching to reclaim Georgia, my partial ancestral homeland!!!
I have to agree with you wholeheartedly. My Native American ancestry is Apache. Before there were Mexicans in Texas, there were the Apache. Mexicans paid the white man to settle Texas and erradicate my people for them. When I hear that reconquista garbage, I feel it necessary to remind Mexican nationals that Texas belonged to my people long before they or their ancestors, the European Spanish, ever arrived in this country.

BTW, just because Mexico is a part of the North American continent, that does not entitle the inhabitants of that country to run back and forth over the U.S. border at will. You don't see the French invading Italy by the millions while declaring that their status as an indigenous person to the European continent entitles them to do so. That argument holds absolutely no water and becomes more and more ridiculous every time I hear it.
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Old 05-25-2008, 06:49 PM
 
Location: Mesa, Az
21,148 posts, read 36,622,458 times
Reputation: 3785
Quote:
Originally Posted by amc760 View Post
Youre calling BS?

We have an identity in this country. Why is that so hard for you to comprehend?


Are you Mexican-American? Have you grown up in a Mexican-American community?

No. All you know is limited to what you read, and waht you hear from the handful of Mexicans you know. I call BS on your so called authority of what makes a Mexican-American in this country.

As far as Im concerned, your an outsider to the community who read a couple stats and feel you konw more than Mexican-Americans themselves. Find a poll or article that says how Mexican-Americans are segregated amongst themselves due to race.
The only real link that I can see tying 'all' Mexicans together is maybe culture. It certainly is not race-------Latinos can be of any race/ethnicity.

I know more than you may think-------despite not being any variety of 'Hispanic'
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