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Old 06-13-2008, 04:30 PM
 
8,973 posts, read 14,617,384 times
Reputation: 2983

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Quote:
Originally Posted by El Rhino View Post
This is a scary school of thought in our society. We can send our troops thousands of miles away and try to keep some on hand to deal with a country who isn't bothering anyone except maybe the people (Israel) who want to see them wiped off the face of the Earth, but using our military on our soil to defend our borders and way of life is out of the question and not feasable. We need to take a step back and think about our real priorities here.
I sense your frustration, but firstly, you're in error. Israel doesn't want anyone 'wiped of the face of the Earth'....that's what Israel's NEIGHBORS want to do to "it"...big difference, there.

In addition, you're up against the "Posse Comitatus" act of 1878, which, essentially, forbids the use of the US Military, in most cases, from being used domestically. THis keeps us from the VERY 'nasty' situation (I've seen it myself) of being in a country where its OWN TANKS are rolling through its streets, to 'keep things in line'. Looks 'exciting' when it happens overseas, but I can guarantee you, it wouldn't look 'pretty' if we had to get used to it here. Want to get a really 'creepy' feeling? Right here, next door, in Mexico, the military is often used in checkpoints along highways. REAL soldiers, with REAL weapons, stop civilian motorists at random checkpoints, searching for drugs, contraband, etc. I don't think we Americans would like having to get used to that, in everyday life, So far, we haven't, because here, it's not allowed.

Whether the border situaton is 'domestic' or not, is probably arguable. But any 'military' called up in its defense would obviously be in "our territory", and so far, that's pretty much against the law.

We DO have Border Patrol and ICE, and the National Guard, and they COULD be doing a lot more, granted. And they SHOULD be, and The Minutemen should go home, and probably WOULD, if the situation were being taken care of. So far, it hasn't been.
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Old 06-14-2008, 06:44 AM
 
Location: In a house
5,230 posts, read 7,322,321 times
Reputation: 2558
Quote:
I hear a ton of talk about securing and militarizing our borders.
Talk never acomplished much in & of itself.

Quote:
This is not a viable option at this time. Our troops are committed in two Wars and we have an impending war with Iran in the future. It is going to happen... No use arguing this point...we cannot withdrawal our troops and stick them on our borders...
Its a very viable solution, actually its why they exist. It wont happen but thats part of our problem. Its more important to those pulling the strings to secure countries that have no use for us than to secure our own.

Quote:
My brother just returned from Iraq and If I was 18 I would have served on what I'm about to suggest. No questions asked...My family has a strong military and police background.
You dont have to be 18. I think the cut off for reserves is 42. If you want to fight other peoples wars chances are you can.

Quote:
So the question is, How do we militarize our borders?
Theres a difference between secureing them & militarizing them. If we use the military thats fine but we can do it with the Border Patrol if we take off the kid gloves. If more manpower is needed then we should fund it, it should take priority over Iraq & Iran or any other country for that matter.

Grant Border patrol officers immunity from prosecution for doing their job & give orders to shoot if border jumpers dont comply IMMEDIATELY with orders to stop or if they resist in any way.

Quote:
I have one suggestions (might not be popular). We need to go the route of Israel. All 18 year old male and female citizens must serve in a homeland securities force. They get Army training, go to basic and so on. Since they are not regular Armed Forces they do not have to serve in foreign wars unless they specifically sign up for a regular branch of the Armed Forces.
Not a terribly bad idea, except we already have plenty of men to do the job. Also Why fund the training, arming & careers when we have willing civilians that will do it for nothing?
If, for some reason they are actually attacked by Mexican nationals then we should take it up with the Mexican govt.
Hell, we should anyway. Why do we bear the burden of their corrupt politics. We give the Mexican Govt an ultimatum. YOU, MEXICO, secure the border or WE the USA will take a mile wide corridor along the border & make it a no mans land. We do it in other countries & enforce them for decades. Why not here?

Quote:
If they refuse service they lose rights.

The right to vote.

The right to work in government (from local to national..no police, no fire, no courts, etc.).
Thats rediculous. The govt has no authority to remove civil rights.

Quote:
The right to receive any security clearance.
This isn't a right.

Quote:
The right to work in any company that has a government contract.
This isn't a right

Quote:
The right to attend or work in any public college on university. Yeah, they can go to private and work in private colleges and universities.
These arent rights

Quote:
The right to teach in any public schools. They can teach in private schools.
This aint a right either.

Quote:
I think only physical and mental exemptions should be allowed. No Religious exemptions! If you have the right to practice any religion then you have the obligation to defend such right...
Never happen. Why shouldn't physical or mentally handicapped people be able to help within their capabilities?

Quote:
So post your comments. Add your suggestions. Keep in mind that it should be common sense that out regular troops are not going to be pulled and put on our borders.
I disagree. I think its common sense that our military forces should be used for our national security first. We can turn the mideast to glass from right here if they pose a threat. If its a problem having active military operations on our soil they can stay on Mexico's side.
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Old 06-14-2008, 08:17 AM
 
Location: Mesa, Az
21,148 posts, read 36,628,664 times
Reputation: 3785
One thing the MEChA, etc. types need to remember is when we took the (sparsely populated) northern part of newly independent Mexico in 1848.......what was left of Mx needed to thank their lucky stars.

We damn near subjugated the whole country; but, the US Congress at the time was afraid of having many more potential slave states------and, there was also the chance that the 'brown' Mexicans would have been placed into slavery with the 'White' Mexicans being accepted into US 'Anglo' society back then.
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Old 06-14-2008, 08:02 PM
 
358 posts, read 461,857 times
Reputation: 57
the easiest way to secure our southern border is to:

Have a private company build a canal 1 mile wide and 400 feet deep with 100 foot high walls and only a couple of bridges across, running from the baja gulf to the gulf of mexico. then we do not have to rely on panama and we can control almost all access into the USA from mexico.

if mexico does not like it, then send them the bill for all of our medical and welfare care coming from illegal aliens.
that should shut them up fast.
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Old 06-14-2008, 08:36 PM
 
2,344 posts, read 3,800,501 times
Reputation: 2191
It is 90 miles from Cuba to America in rough seas and shark infested waters, doesn't stop them from coming.

Look at African illegals in Europe, their trips are even worse.

With that in mind, the only thing your canal will do is provide them with drinking water for the trip.

Physical barriers will not stop anyone from coming over, the DMZ should be even more proof of that.
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Old 06-14-2008, 09:09 PM
 
Location: Florida
540 posts, read 1,105,331 times
Reputation: 164
Quote:
Originally Posted by ibarrio View Post
I hear a ton of talk about securing and militarizing our borders.

This is not a viable option at this time. Our troops are committed in two Wars and we have an impending war with Iran in the future. It is going to happen... No use arguing this point...we cannot withdrawal our troops and stick them on our borders...

My brother just returned from Iraq and If I was 18 I would have served on what I'm about to suggest. No questions asked...My family has a strong military and police background.

So the question is, How do we militarize our borders?

I have one suggestions (might not be popular). We need to go the route of Israel. All 18 year old male and female citizens must serve in a homeland securities force. They get Army training, go to basic and so on. Since they are not regular Armed Forces they do not have to serve in foreign wars unless they specifically sign up for a regular branch of the Armed Forces.

If they refuse service they lose rights.

The right to vote.

The right to work in government (from local to national..no police, no fire, no courts, etc.).

The right to receive any security clearance.

The right to work in any company that has a government contract.

The right to attend or work in any public college on university. Yeah, they can go to private and work in private colleges and universities.

The right to teach in any public schools. They can teach in private schools.

I think only physical and mental exemptions should be allowed. No Religious exemptions! If you have the right to practice any religion then you have the obligation to defend such right...

So post your comments. Add your suggestions. Keep in mind that it should be common sense that out regular troops are not going to be pulled and put on our borders.
That is just taking away too many rights! This would no longer be the land of the FREE!
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Old 06-15-2008, 01:04 AM
 
Location: Bradenton, Florida
27,236 posts, read 40,279,788 times
Reputation: 10915
Quote:
Originally Posted by macmeal View Post
Sorry, but I STILL say the US is a land of "peace, understanding, non-violence, and tolerance". Even your post won't change my mind.

PS It's ALSO a land of personal freedom, and I'll "Get an Education" when I darn well FEEL like it.....not when someone TELLS me to....
I thought that was the sarcastic part....SORRY!!
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Old 06-15-2008, 08:21 AM
 
7,139 posts, read 12,895,974 times
Reputation: 2315
Great idea, Losertarian. But don't forget the alligators!
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