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Old 06-11-2008, 03:53 PM
 
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So basically, what are the (obviously positive) benefits of Immigration?

Especially benefits pertaining to the economic sphere of America.

Cheers
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Old 06-11-2008, 04:11 PM
 
Location: Texas
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looks like there are none....i totally agree
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Old 06-11-2008, 04:17 PM
 
Location: Northern VA (for now)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by King0fthehill View Post
So basically, what are the (obviously positive) benefits of Immigration?

Especially benefits pertaining to the economic sphere of America.

Cheers
One obvious benefit, pretty exotic ladies (Anchal Joseph, Shakira.)

Another benefit, good doctors (specifically SE Asia.)
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Old 06-11-2008, 04:32 PM
 
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Good question, and I'll address it as seriously as I can, but must warn you, I'm no expert. By the way, I'm going to ignore illegals for now...to me, that's a entirely separate issue, and in many ways, serves to refute what we 'feel' and believe in this society about the matter.

Since many years ago, we Americans have been "spoon fed" on the 'sacred institution' that is immigration. We constantly remind each other that "that's how WE got here" (not to excuse those well-meaning 'dupes' who insist we're 'a nation of immigrants', though. That might SOUND 'cute', but it just isn't so).

Immigration was obviously once the 'engine' that drove our industrial development and our 'expansion' and our becoming a great world power. So taken for granted was this that we can scarcely conceive of any 'normal' person speaking out against it. Yet immigration is only a man-made concept, and like any other concept, it should be subject to periodic re-evalution and review. (For us Catholics, yes, I know, the Church has, of late, made immigration a "God-given right". Whether this is a thinly-disguised plea in support of illegals, a long-standing Church position, or what, isn't clear. I don't remember hearing about it a few years ago, though)

The question I've never heard addressed clearly and concisely, is this...Does America, by some sense of 'moral duty', conscience, 'mandate from above', etc etc.. "owe" the whole world the permanent right to come here legally, in numbers as large as we can possibly accomodate, because THAT IS OUR MORAL OBLIGATION to the WORLD ?..or, is America's primary interest, and obligation, TO ITS CITIZENS, and thus, it's a matter of taking in immigrants whom we NEED, at such a pace as fits our needs, and we'll be able to absorb?

Obvious and simple as these questions are, I've never heard a clear explanation, and quite often, they can provoke an argument. We no longer have vast "frontiers" to populate...nor vast armies of "grunt labor" needed to cut our trees, dig our coal, build our railroads, and staff our steel mills. Should our concept of, and our approach to, immigration be the same as it was 100 years ago...or 30 years ago? If not, why not?...and if so, why?

Once again, no mention in this 'equation" of illegals, except to say that THAT situation takes many of the "immigrantion" concepts we have. "stretches" them to include illegals, and thus, in my opinion, destroys much of the validity of any argument supporting their position. Immigration is a legitimate subject for debate. Illegal immigration is simply a 'black market' shadow-program, and should no more enter an 'immigration' discussion, than organized crime should figure into our policies regarding "business". Organized crime is NOT 'legitimate business"...and illegal imigration is NOT "legitimate immigration".

Bottom line? Here it is...do we take in immigrants because they're needed, and they enrich our society? Or do we take them in because we 'should', and it's our 'duty as a country'? Maybe we do it for BOTH reasons..but their IS a difference, and perhaps this is the cause of some of our arguments...
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Old 06-11-2008, 04:36 PM
 
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Well legal immigration can benefit a country if that country truly is lacking in certain areas of the workforce. However, I do not see that at this time. Only companies that want to pay less of a wage then if they had Americans compete for jobs. Until I see companies really compete for American workers-i.e.-offer decent pay and benefits- I will not believe that there is a job that "Americans refuse to do".




Nicolem
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Old 06-11-2008, 04:42 PM
 
Location: Bountiful, Utah
219 posts, read 378,429 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by macmeal View Post
Obvious and simple as these questions are, I've never heard a clear explanation, and quite often, they can provoke an argument. We no longer have vast "frontiers" to populate...nor vast armies of "grunt labor" needed to cut our trees, dig our coal, build our railroads, and staff our steel mills. Should our concept of, and our approach to, immigration be the same as it was 100 years ago...or 30 years ago? If not, why not?...and if so, why?
Just as everything else changes and adapts with time so should immigration. It should not be the same as 30+ years ago. We do not need that kind of labor. I really don't know what the benefit of immigration is for our country right now. I really cannot think of anything.
I do get the feeling though, that some people are raising the question that this land isn't really ours and it was taken by force so therefore we should allow those that want to come here come, because who are we to make the laws?
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Old 06-11-2008, 04:54 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AnnaGrrrrrl View Post
.
I do get the feeling though, that some people are raising the question that this land isn't really ours and it was taken by force so therefore we should allow those that want to come here come, because who are we to make the laws?
That HAS come up once or twice, now that you mention it. It fits especially well into the "illegal" platform, because once you accept that the place was "stolen", and that "we" (the present populace) have no right to make laws, then it's just a short step from immigration to ILLEGAL immigration....which SOME folks assure us, is "really the same thing, anyway"...

Pretty predictable..
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Old 06-11-2008, 06:16 PM
 
Location: Mesa, Az
21,148 posts, read 36,611,035 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AnnaGrrrrrl View Post
Just as everything else changes and adapts with time so should immigration. It should not be the same as 30+ years ago. We do not need that kind of labor. I really don't know what the benefit of immigration is for our country right now. I really cannot think of anything.
I do get the feeling though, that some people are raising the question that this land isn't really ours and it was taken by force so therefore we should allow those that want to come here come, because who are we to make the laws?
Well; said 'people' can get over it.......

The cold reality is that the indigenous people here were simply beaten by a bigger and badder group of 'Indians'------both Anglo and Hispanic who came here starting 1492.

Not saying it should have happened; but by the standards of the era, such behavior was acceptable. And; it was not just New World inhabitants who were hurt-------the Arabs and Mongols subjugated the 'White' Euros.

And the Chinese grabbed Tibet, the Soviets stole what was western Poland, etc.------which happened within the last 60 odd years.
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Old 06-11-2008, 07:32 PM
 
Location: Bountiful, Utah
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Yes, exactly true, that is just how things went back then. Everyone aquired what they had by force. Oh well, we cannot go back and change it no matter how guilty they make everyone feel. Whatever they thin we can do for them today to make up for it WILL NEVER change what happened back then, ever! This is a concept many cannot grasp. But for some reason we need to feel guilty for what happened back then and the people here now need to pay for it. I would like one of them tell me the name of just one of their ancestors they are directly related to. They can't.
This land has laws no matter who is occupying it right now. Abide by the laws or get the hell out!
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Old 06-11-2008, 08:52 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ArizonaBear View Post


And the Chinese grabbed Tibet, the Soviets stole what was western Poland, etc.------which happened within the last 60 odd years.
Once more, an example of my "western, post-Protestant societal guilt" theory. Not only did the Chinese "grab" Tibet, they're still 'grabbing it' as we speak. THe list of what the Soviets 'grabbed' would fill an entire thread.

But these societies, like most, don't experience, nor do they acknowledge, any notion of societal guilt. They "did what they did", and that's that...case closed.

Only the US, and a few other places, go over and over and over our 'sins", admitting our guilt and even our 'near misses', and inviting the whole WORLD to join in, and give THEIR opinion...(ironically, some of those judging us, themselves have human rights records that would make Fidel Castro blush with shame)....
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