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Old 06-12-2008, 05:39 PM
 
3,712 posts, read 5,709,656 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jadel812 View Post
What the heck makes Hispanics more important than any other race who is here illegally? If he bows to them then he needs to do the same for ALL illegal immigrant. I don't take to lightly to threats and that's what that sounds to me.
Amen! I am sick and tired of threats from the hispanic caucus, La Raza, Lulac, and all their other organizations. I cannot think of one other group of people, many of whom are not even citizens, who continually act sooooooo self-important and make such outrageous demands. I have absolutely had it.
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Old 06-12-2008, 05:44 PM
 
8,973 posts, read 14,612,395 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kabluey View Post
I get what you're saying. But there are those who then use what you say as an excuse to throw restraint to the wind and say some stupid and embarrassing things that discredit the movement.

I guess what I want is: "Don't say anything stupid or xenophobic! Don't throw personal attacks! Stick to the laws, rules, and the breaking of them and throw in appreciation and admiration for legals!" Add legals' standing up for the process they sacrificed for, and I think it's a better strategy than what the media is portraying now. And that gets into the media bias. But I just don't think the "false conservatives" or so-called "cultural conservatives" have shown an ability to look past their emotions.

I think we both want the same thing. I predict if we let cultural conservatives guide the argument against illegal immigration, too much expressed negative emotion against illegal immigration (i.e. this is MY country, that kind of bs, where "my" is interpreted as "white" and we all know that's how it's interpreted, we can predict it, and no matter how much we can claim or even prove it isn't, the mere prediction that that is how it will be interpreted should be enough for smart defenders of legal immigration to refrain from resorting to that justification for the cause).

I don't want blanket amnesty for illegal immigrants. I REALLY, REALLY DON'T. There are just some (actually many), whom I just want to shut the eff up. They're effing it up for legal immigrants. Please, we all know who these people are. They are our neighbors, and maybe they're well-meaning. If you want to defend the institution of immigration, the legal process. If you want to show appreciation for the millions who recognize what this nation stands for, and sacrifice to respect it, and create value in citizenship.

Tell those idiots who resort to diatribes, rhetoric, xenophobia to shut up. The "white person afraid of losing his country, or his impression of 50s American utopia" perspectives are illegal immigrants' greatest PR ally. And I know they're not the majority. But they are vocal. And we have to consciously, deliberately minimize and counterbalance their effect on this election.

And then add in the legal immigrants' voices. Do that, and I think we have a great chance to affect both candidates.
You're quite right...I myself am in a delicate situation. Married these many years to someone identical in ethnicity to a good many of our illegals, who's often 'assumed' to be in sympathy with them, both by 'them', and by liberal, well-meaning whites...(both of which groups sometimes express disappointment when they find out they're wrong in their assumptions) we've had a 'rocky ride' over the years. I can assure you that there are MANY people who fit this description, but they aren't on this forum. In essence, such folks are constantly under pressure to explain WHY they aren't in favor of illegals...and racist, judgemental "anti-illegals" are the LAST thing we need.
Years ago, at some sort of High School function, I was approached in the parking lot by some sort of group of 'wackos' handing out literature encouraging "fighting the growing menace from South of the Border" which was threatening "our society". When my wife walked up, these folks got VERY 'huffy', snatched their leaflets away, and walked off in search of more promising company, casting baleful glances our way. (I managed to KEEP one leaflet, which I read later...LOUSY composition, CHILDISH artwork, but really, some pretty scary stuff)...THese folks were soon approached by school officials, and ordered off the property.

But needless to say, despite both my wife and I being against illegals IN PRINCIPLE (while knowing and caring for some, as individuals), we certainly didn't need the company of THOSE guys in our 'beliefs'....and, taking one look at us, together, they apparently didn't feel they needed OUR support, either.
Scary people, and, as you say, certainly no 'asset' to our 'cause', and an embarassment for anyone they'd try to 'help'...
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Old 06-12-2008, 06:36 PM
 
16,700 posts, read 18,913,643 times
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Pretty funny stuff... a LOBBYIST group demanding something... Obama should tell them like he would tell any other lobbyist group... "Go to Heck! And don't come back!"
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Old 06-12-2008, 06:42 PM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,809,199 times
Reputation: 3028
Quote:
Originally Posted by LoveMiiorHateMii View Post
I hate to be rude but illegals do not have the right to vote....because they are not US citizens.
Motor Voter has enabled illegal aliens to register to vote in states such as Maryland, due to our pandering representatives granting them drivers’ license privileges. The voter registration form is conveniently attached to the drivers’ license application and renewal. It brilliantly requires one to simply “affirm” they are a legal U.S. citizen. There is no additional requisite ‘verification’ or notarized authorization.

I witnessed a Spanish-speaking man placing several voter registration forms into the box last year when I renewed my license. I know he had several, because the slot on the box is so narrow he could only submit one at a time. He didn’t even try to conceal it. My complaints to a DMV employee were essentially ignored. In a lackadaisical manner, she informed me that motor vehicle employees have nothing whatsoever to do with voter registration, and ‘advised’ me to notify the MD Boards of Elections. I was livid, to say the least. I have sent two letters, and as of today, have yet to receive a response. I even contacted the State Attorney General, to no avail.

Yes, illegal aliens are voting; and there is widespread malfeasance among our elected officials who choose to ignore this illegal practice. It was not in jest when illegal aliens chanted, “today we march, tomorrow we vote.”

"Motor Voter"
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Old 06-12-2008, 07:06 PM
 
Location: Mesa, Az
21,148 posts, read 36,615,542 times
Reputation: 3785
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kabluey View Post
Let me ask an open question: Any legal immigrants and 1st generation Americans out there on this board who oppose illegal immigration, or feel it discredits what you or your parent(s) have sacrificed for? I know I've seen a few around here . . .
My father immigrated to the USA (legally) from Hungary in 1951------and, I am quite anti illegal immigration.
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Old 06-12-2008, 08:01 PM
 
1,031 posts, read 2,023,762 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by macmeal View Post
You're quite right...I myself am in a delicate situation. Married these many years to someone identical in ethnicity to a good many of our illegals, who's often 'assumed' to be in sympathy with them, both by 'them', and by liberal, well-meaning whites...(both of which groups sometimes express disappointment when they find out they're wrong in their assumptions) we've had a 'rocky ride' over the years. I can assure you that there are MANY people who fit this description, but they aren't on this forum. In essence, such folks are constantly under pressure to explain WHY they aren't in favor of illegals...and racist, judgemental "anti-illegals" are the LAST thing we need.
Years ago, at some sort of High School function, I was approached in the parking lot by some sort of group of 'wackos' handing out literature encouraging "fighting the growing menace from South of the Border" which was threatening "our society". When my wife walked up, these folks got VERY 'huffy', snatched their leaflets away, and walked off in search of more promising company, casting baleful glances our way. (I managed to KEEP one leaflet, which I read later...LOUSY composition, CHILDISH artwork, but really, some pretty scary stuff)...THese folks were soon approached by school officials, and ordered off the property.

But needless to say, despite both my wife and I being against illegals IN PRINCIPLE (while knowing and caring for some, as individuals), we certainly didn't need the company of THOSE guys in our 'beliefs'....and, taking one look at us, together, they apparently didn't feel they needed OUR support, either.
Scary people, and, as you say, certainly no 'asset' to our 'cause', and an embarassment for anyone they'd try to 'help'...
Well, I know down here in Arizona there are a number of legal Americans from Mexico who share your wife's opinion. They are out there. And those in favor of legal immigration who have personal experience with it should not be afraid to speak up. Not just against illegal immigration and for legal immigration (and the attached, INHERENT distinction) but also against intolerance.

Best of luck to you both. I am confident there are many of similar experiences who share your view where you live.
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Old 06-12-2008, 08:35 PM
 
Location: Bountiful, Utah
219 posts, read 378,461 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by macmeal View Post
You're quite right...I myself am in a delicate situation. Married these many years to someone identical in ethnicity to a good many of our illegals, who's often 'assumed' to be in sympathy with them, both by 'them', and by liberal, well-meaning whites...
Wow, Macmeal that was nice of you to share your situation with us. You would be surprised how many are in the same situation. I mentioned in another post my mom was from Mexico but I am also married to Spaniard. All who oppose illegal immigration. But we live in Utah, which to me is very prejudice and since I have lived here all my life and being 1/2 mexican I have had to deal with a lot of not so nice situations. I never let it bother me, but now that I am older and I see the way people look at my husband (they don't look at me like that because I look white - thanks to my dad) who is obviously not an alien, speaks the language well and does NOT look like a mexican and they still overlook him for a job because of the way he looks. It makes you mad. But at the same time I can't blame most white people they really don't know the difference between a Spanish person and a mexican and after being around it all my life I am used to it. But despite all that, I wouldn't want to be anywhere else!
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Old 06-12-2008, 08:46 PM
 
Location: Mesa, Az
21,148 posts, read 36,615,542 times
Reputation: 3785
Quote:
Originally Posted by AnnaGrrrrrl View Post
Wow, Macmeal that was nice of you to share your situation with us. You would be surprised how many are in the same situation. I mentioned in another post my mom was from Mexico but I am also married to Spaniard. All who oppose illegal immigration. But we live in Utah, which to me is very prejudice and since I have lived here all my life and being 1/2 mexican I have had to deal with a lot of not so nice situations. I never let it bother me, but now that I am older and I see the way people look at my husband (they don't look at me like that because I look white - thanks to my dad) who is obviously not an alien, speaks the language well and does NOT look like a mexican and they still overlook him for a job because of the way he looks. It makes you mad. But at the same time I can't blame most white people they really don't know the difference between a Spanish person and a mexican and after being around it all my life I am used to it. But despite all that, I wouldn't want to be anywhere else!
For the record: a Spaniard (from Spain) is almost always White; genetically speaking, they are closer to English, Irish, etc. than to most (Mestizo) Mexicans.

To the Utah crowd: many of the Mormons of 50-100 years ago were actually 'Mexican'------they were born/raised in Chihuahua, etc. but had no indigenous heritage.
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Old 06-12-2008, 08:48 PM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,809,199 times
Reputation: 3028
Quote:
Originally Posted by macmeal View Post
You're quite right...I myself am in a delicate situation. Married these many years to someone identical in ethnicity to a good many of our illegals, who's often 'assumed' to be in sympathy with them, both by 'them', and by liberal, well-meaning whites...(both of which groups sometimes express disappointment when they find out they're wrong in their assumptions) we've had a 'rocky ride' over the years. I can assure you that there are MANY people who fit this description, but they aren't on this forum. In essence, such folks are constantly under pressure to explain WHY they aren't in favor of illegals...and racist, judgemental "anti-illegals" are the LAST thing we need.

But needless to say, despite both my wife and I being against illegals IN PRINCIPLE (while knowing and caring for some, as individuals), we certainly didn't need the company of THOSE guys in our 'beliefs'....and, taking one look at us, together, they apparently didn't feel they needed OUR support, either. Scary people, and, as you say, certainly no 'asset' to our 'cause', and an embarassment for anyone they'd try to 'help'...
I couldn’t agree more! While I'm a staunch opponent of illegal immigration, I am by no means anti-Hispanic. It’s disconcerting to be remotely aligned with racists; in particular, groups I abhor such as the KKK.

An unfortunate upshot of this issue is the ‘assumption’ that all Hispanics are illegal. I can certainly relate to your family’s dilemma due to my son’s very ‘Latino’ appearance. Fortunately, he has become adept at discounting ignorance.
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Old 06-12-2008, 08:55 PM
 
Location: OC, CA
3,309 posts, read 5,031,707 times
Reputation: 645
In a sense, illegals CAN vote. California is estimated to have 4 electoral votes for illegal aliens. It is also estimated that 19 State Assembly Districts in California (all Democratic) have populations of AT LEAST 25% illegal immigrants, which are factored into the Census (since the Census does not ask about your legal status). Downtown Los Angeles's Assembly District is approximately 65% illegals, and guess what, they are factored into the population count for those districts. So, in a sense, illegal aliens are still a number in our government representatives...and even though they can't vote technically, most would vote Democratic, and their number (especially in LA) respresents a vote for a Democrat.

Its confusing, I know, but its one of the holes in our nations government.
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