Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
I hate to be rude but illegals do not have the right to vote....because they are not US citizens.
that may be so, but the illegals' children who were born here DO vote. my opinion is that they tend to vote on that one issue, which is important to keep all of their illegal brethren here milking the good ol USA for all of its wealth.
I hate to be rude but illegals do not have the right to vote....because they are not US citizens.
It's also illegal for them to break into our country and take up residence, but the law doesn't seem to make much of an impact on their behavior. The worst part, though, is our government's complicity in these crimes.
When I read that statement, I see them saying - we don't have to follow the law, YOU (Obama) need to fix our problems and allow us to break the law and find a way for us to not have to abide by the law. It pisses me off! Who are they to tell anyone what to do!
This just follows suit from another post
Quote:
I have a friend from Colombia (who immigrated here legally) and she just shakes her head at this whole situation. According to her, we're all a bunch of dupes, that the illegal immigrants--and the Mexican government--know exactly what they're doing, and are very adept at taking advantage of the PC rhetoric in the U.S. to get their way, calling Americans against illegal immigration "racist," portraying themselves as innocent victims, etc. She also said that "La Raza" is just as racist in Spanish as it is in English. In sum, her view is that Americans are just gullible and clueless. And that we will live to regret it if we extend amnesty.
Last edited by High Springs Gator; 06-12-2008 at 01:55 PM..
I hate to be rude but illegals do not have the right to vote....because they are not US citizens.
There are a lot of apolgists for them who can, and may make their decisions on his response.
The answer, to defend legal immigration, is not to brush this off as this post appears to suggest. It is not to tell both candidates to ignore the Latino vote because it's inconsequential (this is wrong because it will be CRUCIAL to victory).
The answer is for those who want to preserve immigration, legally, to stand up in a rational manner. Not hysterically. Not with ad hominem personal attacks or hyperbole.
But calmly present the case of legal immigrants. How the process of legal immigration does work. And results in law abiding, contributing members of society, who are among the best that provide the foundation for American democracy. And how they are affected by illegal immigration.
If this is done, and honestly I don't see conservative being able to accomplish this effectively, then a nice counterbalance and contrast to the visceral ad hominem attacks from the apologists for illegality can be exposed in a public realm.
There are a lot of apolgists for them who can, and may make their decisions on his response.
The answer, to defend legal immigration, is not to brush this off as this post appears to suggest. It is not to tell both candidates to ignore the Latino vote because it's inconsequential (this is wrong because it will be CRUCIAL to victory).
The answer is for those who want to preserve immigration, legally, to stand up in a rational manner. Not hysterically. Not with ad hominem personal attacks or hyperbole.
But calmly present the case of legal immigrants. How the process of legal immigration does work. And results in law abiding, contributing members of society, who are among the best that provide the foundation for American democracy. And how they are affected by illegal immigration.
If this is done, and honestly I don't see conservative being able to accomplish this effectively, then a nice counterbalance and contrast to the visceral ad hominem attacks from the apologists for illegality can be exposed in a public realm.
Makes a lot of sense on a rational level, but this controversy is FAR from rational, and has been for some time. It's about 90% an emotional 'cat-fight', and as such, rational solutions may not work.
In essence, anyone attempting to carry out the very sensible plan you suggest, would be required to do that which is essentially not possible..that is, to 'prove a negative'. He'd have to somehow "prove" he wasn't a racist. "prove" he didn't hate hard workers, and "prove" his main purpose wasn't just to 'break up families". And that's impossible. Even the Minutemen can't "prove" their intentions aren't anything more than thinly-disguised racism. Why hasn't ONE SINGLE Minuteman ever harmed an illegal? Probably to "deceive" us into thinking they're "good people" (they're waiting to harm them LATER, the sneaky devils !)....and I can't "prove" that this is a silly idea, any more than you or I can't actually "prove" we don't hate Hispanics (which we obviously DO, or we'd support illegals...get it?)...
What the heck makes Hispanics more important than any other race who is here illegally? If he bows to them then he needs to do the same for ALL illegal immigrant. I don't take to lightly to threats and that's what that sounds to me.
Makes a lot of sense on a rational level, but this controversy is FAR from rational, and has been for some time. It's about 90% an emotional 'cat-fight', and as such, rational solutions may not work.
In essence, anyone attempting to carry out the very sensible plan you suggest, would be required to do that which is essentially not possible..that is, to 'prove a negative'. He'd have to somehow "prove" he wasn't a racist. "prove" he didn't hate hard workers, and "prove" his main purpose wasn't just to 'break up families". And that's impossible. Even the Minutemen can't "prove" their intentions aren't anything more than thinly-disguised racism. Why hasn't ONE SINGLE Minuteman ever harmed an illegal? Probably to "deceive" us into thinking they're "good people" (they're waiting to harm them LATER, the sneaky devils !)....and I can't "prove" that this is a silly idea, any more than you or I can't actually "prove" we don't hate Hispanics (which we obviously DO, or we'd support illegals...get it?)...
I get what you're saying. But there are those who then use what you say as an excuse to throw restraint to the wind and say some stupid and embarrassing things that discredit the movement.
I guess what I want is: "Don't say anything stupid or xenophobic! Don't throw personal attacks! Stick to the laws, rules, and the breaking of them and throw in appreciation and admiration for legals!" Add legals' standing up for the process they sacrificed for, and I think it's a better strategy than what the media is portraying now. And that gets into the media bias. But I just don't think the "false conservatives" or so-called "cultural conservatives" have shown an ability to look past their emotions.
I think we both want the same thing. I predict if we let cultural conservatives guide the argument against illegal immigration, too much expressed negative emotion against illegal immigration (i.e. this is MY country, that kind of bs, where "my" is interpreted as "white" and we all know that's how it's interpreted, we can predict it, and no matter how much we can claim or even prove it isn't, the mere prediction that that is how it will be interpreted should be enough for smart defenders of legal immigration to refrain from resorting to that justification for the cause).
I don't want blanket amnesty for illegal immigrants. I REALLY, REALLY DON'T. There are just some (actually many), whom I just want to shut the eff up. They're effing it up for legal immigrants. Please, we all know who these people are. They are our neighbors, and maybe they're well-meaning. If you want to defend the institution of immigration, the legal process. If you want to show appreciation for the millions who recognize what this nation stands for, and sacrifice to respect it, and create value in citizenship.
Tell those idiots who resort to diatribes, rhetoric, xenophobia to shut up. The "white person afraid of losing his country, or his impression of 50s American utopia" perspectives are illegal immigrants' greatest PR ally. And I know they're not the majority. But they are vocal. And we have to consciously, deliberately minimize and counterbalance their effect on this election.
And then add in the legal immigrants' voices. Do that, and I think we have a great chance to affect both candidates.
Let me ask an open question: Any legal immigrants and 1st generation Americans out there on this board who oppose illegal immigration, or feel it discredits what you or your parent(s) have sacrificed for? I know I've seen a few around here . . .
High Springs Gator, I didn't read that post and I don't even think I responded (at least it doesn't sound familiar) so I don't know what you mean. ?
Just another form of manipulation. Sorry for the confusion.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
