U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies > Illegal Immigration
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
View Poll Results: What is your party and stance on illegal immigration?
I am a Democrat, and I am FOR illegal immigrant rights 3 4.62%
I am a Democrat, and I am AGAINST illegal immigrant rights 9 13.85%
I am a Republican, and I am FOR illegal immigrant rights 2 3.08%
I am a Republican, and I am AGAINST illegal immigrant rights 20 30.77%
I am an Other, and I am FOR illegal immigrant rights 1 1.54%
I am an Other, and I am AGAINST illegal immigrant rights 29 44.62%
Other/No Opinion 1 1.54%
Voters: 65. You may not vote on this poll

Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 06-25-2008, 08:52 PM
 
Location: Arizona
2,065 posts, read 3,174,407 times
Reputation: 391

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by David Aguilar View Post
I just think the mindless, ignorant banter constantly preached about how "they need to go" is ridiculous, why don't folks just come out and admit that they are racists, instead of hiding behind the word "illegal". It's obvious they don't want to live or be around people that are different from them. They don't want their children being friends with kids that speak Spanish at home. It's pretty hard to tell who is illegal and who isn't any way. Most of these "illegals" that are constantly being complained about aren't even illegal, they just lump all Hispanics into the same boat as if they are all the same and they are all here illegally. I don't think anybody is going up to these "illegals" and asking them for their papers. People who complain see Hispanics and assume they are illegals.
WOW!!! I think you just set a record for the number of blatant ASS-umptions in a single paragraph!

First sentence..."they are racists"

2nd sentence (paraphrased)..."they are xenophobes"

3rd sentence..."don't like Spanish"

4th sentence..."think ALL Hispanics are illegal"

5th sentence..."don't ask about status"

6th sentence..."People who complain see Hispanics"


Yer battin' 1,000 there, sport. Thanks for the laughs!!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 06-26-2008, 02:54 AM
 
Location: Arvada, CO
12,841 posts, read 23,205,680 times
Reputation: 12223
Quote:
Originally Posted by ArizonaBear View Post
Of course.

As for running most of the illegals out of the USA-------employer sanctions laws like we have here in Arizona are having their intended effect.
You see, I don't have a problem with that. If laws are in place and they are enforced, (which many anti-illegal immigration laws are not), then I don't have a problem. I'm not asking for laws to be repealed so there can be a free-flow of people coming in--I just don't have a problem with the way it is now, they don't bother me. Like I said before, they are just taking advantage of loopholes, and the way I see it, that is the government's fault.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ArizonaBear View Post
Hell: re: Americans of 'Hispanic' background------many of them want the illegals gone as well.
I'm American, of 1/2-Hispanic background. They're here, and I'd think it'd be a waste of money to round everybody up and send them home. They are no threat to me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by desertsun41 View Post
Yea but at least they speak English. The one and only official language of the USA !!!!!
There are illegal-immigrants that speak English as well. Some, you would probably never guess were illegal.

Just a note, there is no "Official language of the USA". English, is the "de facto" national language. There are, however, states that have passed laws making English an official language. West Virginia, I know is one, which I find ironic because they probably have one of the lowest percentages of non-English speakers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by desertsun41 View Post
David to you realize you are all alone? No one here agrees with you. Probably because you are wrong.
As for being all alone, I don't mind, and I knew going into this that I probably would be. I don't need a whole crowd of people behind me to validate my OPINION. I didn't know that majorities were always considered right.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LLLL98 View Post
David, saying that people who are against illegal immigration are full of hate is just plain wrong. I value my friendships with Cubans, Haitians, Jamaicans, Puerto Ricans, Peruvians & many others. I have no problems with anyone who comes here legally from another country. The key word is legal. The United States should be a melting pot, I am in favor of that, but the folks that come here without following the law and don't try to join our culture is who I have a problem with. I understand their desire to live in a more prosperous and fair country and to try to give their children more oppurtunity and safety, but that doesn't given them the right to break our laws.
And overuse and abuse of our system (welfare, medical, schools, police) does affect all of us in some way, you don't have to be on a "high-horse" to recognize that more people using our system is an unfair burden on us as taxpaying,legal citizens.
The way I see it, complaining about illegal immigration is complaining about just one group of people (Mexicans). When people talk about illegal immigration you are generally speaking about Mexico. There is tons of emotion involved when people speak about this subject, and some are down right mean about it.

You mentioned Cubans, ever heard of the wet feet/dry feet policy? All they have to do is reach American soil and are given asylum and the opportunity for citizenship. I find this to be a double standard, where some immigrants are easily allowed in and some are not. Maybe the Mexicans should say they are Cuban when they get caught. (BTW, I'm sure you know Puerto Ricans are Americans)

As for joining our culture, what is our culture any way? It could mean any number of things, as most people around the nation don't conform to one set culture, we are all different, coast to coast. There are legal immigrants that don't join it, and there are illegals that do.

As for breaking our laws, its pretty easy to not feel bad about breaking laws that are rarely enforced. I can't fault them for taking advantage.

And as for using our system, if they were paying more into it (i.e. make them pay taxes), there shouldn't be a problem.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GuyPinestra View Post
WOW!!! I think you just set a record for the number of blatant ASS-umptions in a single paragraph!

First sentence..."they are racists"

2nd sentence (paraphrased)..."they are xenophobes"

3rd sentence..."don't like Spanish"

4th sentence..."think ALL Hispanics are illegal"

5th sentence..."don't ask about status"

6th sentence..."People who complain see Hispanics"


Yer battin' 1,000 there, sport. Thanks for the laughs!!
You're welcome. I don't think all opponents of illegal immigration are racist xenophobes who are afraid of hearing another language. But there are plenty who do fit that mold, which is why I made that ASS-umption.

One question, how and why would you ask someone that doesn't speak English about their immigration status and why would you think they'd tell you the truth?


In conclusion:
-The problem is the laws aren't enforced, if they were, we wouldn't be having this conversation.
-I don't care if the laws aren't enforced, as I don't see illegals as much of a problem or threat for me, I just live my life and don't worry about what everybody else is doing.
-Who cares if they don't speak English, you don't have to talk to everybody, they are the ones with the handicap, not us
-We all, (myself included) need to stop making generalizations, not every person in a particular group is the same
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-26-2008, 07:27 AM
 
Location: Mesa, Az
21,148 posts, read 36,622,458 times
Reputation: 3785
Side note: how can one be 'half Hispanic'------there is no Hispanic race. For the life of me I cannot find the 'Hispanic' gene(s).

If anything: most Latino (White and many Mestizo) men have the same basic Y Chromosome (R1B) as people from the British Isles, Portugal, and many other parts of Western Europe. One can add many Iranians to that list and a few Hungarians as well (my father is Hungarian and I am an R1B carrier). Our common ancestor hailed from what would be northern Spain; the Alta Mira area 30K years ago.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-26-2008, 09:52 AM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,813,362 times
Reputation: 3028
Quote:
Originally Posted by ArizonaBear View Post
Side note: how can one be 'half Hispanic'------there is no Hispanic race. For the life of me I cannot find the 'Hispanic' gene(s).

If anything: most Latino (White and many Mestizo) men have the same basic Y Chromosome (R1B) as people from the British Isles, Portugal, and many other parts of Western Europe. One can add many Iranians to that list and a few Hungarians as well (my father is Hungarian and I am an R1B carrier). Our common ancestor hailed from what would be northern Spain; the Alta Mira area 30K years ago.
You are of course right about the non-existent “Hispanic” race. This is precisely why I have a problem assigning this “label” to my son. I do it only to acknowledge his father’s origin as being Latin American. Still, it makes no sense to me whatsoever; similar to designating “American” as a race....which of course would be utterly ridiculous.

Last edited by Benicar; 06-26-2008 at 09:57 AM.. Reason: Additional comments.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-26-2008, 09:58 AM
 
Location: South Fla
1,044 posts, read 1,722,645 times
Reputation: 284
Quote:
Originally Posted by David Aguilar View Post







The way I see it, complaining about illegal immigration is complaining about just one group of people (Mexicans). When people talk about illegal immigration you are generally speaking about Mexico. There is tons of emotion involved when people speak about this subject, and some are down right mean about it.

You mentioned Cubans, ever heard of the wet feet/dry feet policy? All they have to do is reach American soil and are given asylum and the opportunity for citizenship. I find this to be a double standard, where some immigrants are easily allowed in and some are not. Maybe the Mexicans should say they are Cuban when they get caught. (BTW, I'm sure you know Puerto Ricans are Americans)

As for joining our culture, what is our culture any way? It could mean any number of things, as most people around the nation don't conform to one set culture, we are all different, coast to coast. There are legal immigrants that don't join it, and there are illegals that do.

As for breaking our laws, its pretty easy to not feel bad about breaking laws that are rarely enforced. I can't fault them for taking advantage.

And as for using our system, if they were paying more into it (i.e. make them pay taxes), there shouldn't be a problem.




Your implication was that people who had a problem with illegal immigrants also had a problem with all immigrants, mainly brown skinned from the nature of your post, so I wanted to make it clear that my problem is not with their skin color or language. And complaining about illegal immigration is not neccesarily complaining about mexicans, the mexican-american contribution to America should be respected and acknowledged, but to regard a complaint about people crossing the border illegally as an attack on mexicans or any other single group is misguided and not true. Maybe your geographic location has more impact on the nature of the remarks that you hear about Mexicans, our main immigrant groups are mainly from the Caribbean.

Yes I do know about the wet foot/dry foot policy and that is a completely unfair not to mention unneccesary policy put in place and continued because of the enourmous power of the Cuban population down here in South Florida. There is no logical reason why a Cuban should be allowed to stay, but a Haitian will be sent back, it makes no sense whatsoever. This just makes for a very bitter relationship between Cubans and other immigrant groups.

American culture is made up a lot things, our language of course is the most obvious thing, our laws, our history, our cities, our people. When someone enters this country illegally then their very first act in relation to America is an act of disrespect to the laws of our country, and therefor the very culture of our country. While I do not blame this individual for wanting a better life here in America, the blame should be placed on the individuals who are supplying jobs, housing, and free government services, I do find that this disrespect is a negative contribution to our country. The arguement that illegal immigration is not wrong because no one enforces the laws doesn't really address the question. I guess the question should be, do you think the existing laws should be enforced more strictly? Or do you think there should be very lenient immigration laws? Most countries in the world that have high standards of living have very strict immigration standards, you have to prove that you are an asset to the country before you are allowed to enter. That makes sense to me, we have enough non-contributing citizens that are born here, we certainly don't need a bunch of non-contributing non-citizens entering from another country. No, not every illegal is a drain on our society, but the more illegals that enter the more likely the chance that some will enter who don't wish to add to our society in a positive way.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-26-2008, 10:07 AM
 
Location: Arvada, CO
12,841 posts, read 23,205,680 times
Reputation: 12223
Quote:
Originally Posted by ArizonaBear View Post
Side note: how can one be 'half Hispanic'------there is no Hispanic race. For the life of me I cannot find the 'Hispanic' gene(s).

If anything: most Latino (White and many Mestizo) men have the same basic Y Chromosome (R1B) as people from the British Isles, Portugal, and many other parts of Western Europe. One can add many Iranians to that list and a few Hungarians as well (my father is Hungarian and I am an R1B carrier). Our common ancestor hailed from what would be northern Spain; the Alta Mira area 30K years ago.
I am well aware there is no Hispanic race, and I never said there was. But Hispanic, as per the US Census bureau is an ethnicity or ancestry, just like Italian, German etc. But the Census bureau doesn't treat it as such; they treat Hispanics as a separate group, but at the same level as White, Black, Asian, Other etc. For someone to be counted as Hispanic, they have to mark "Hispanic" and one of the races (White, Black, Other), whereas someone of non-Hispanic ancestry/ethnicity isn't separated at the same level. I personally find all this preposterous, and in this day in age, this sort of thing shouldn't matter that much.

One, such as myself can be half-Hispanic in this way. My mother is white. My father is white, of Mexican descent. My ancestry would be half-Hispanic, not my racial background. If someone's mother were from Italy and their father from Germany, that person would be half-Italian, half-German. Why all this matters is beyond me, I consider myself to be non-ethnocentric, I really could care less where my ancestors are from, nor where anybody else's did.

Another side note: When I go about my days and people ask me or tell me how Mexican I am, it is kind of frustrating, i.e., telling me what side of town I oughta live on, asking what I think about Hispanic-related issues, assuming I speak Spanish, etc. To me what I "am" doesn't matter, and it shouldn't to anybody else either. Granted, this kind of thing doesn't happen very often (some places more than others), but it can strain otherwise fine interpersonal relationships.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-26-2008, 11:08 AM
 
Location: Arvada, CO
12,841 posts, read 23,205,680 times
Reputation: 12223
Quote:
Originally Posted by LLLL98 View Post
Your implication was that people who had a problem with illegal immigrants also had a problem with all immigrants, mainly brown skinned from the nature of your post, so I wanted to make it clear that my problem is not with their skin color or language. And complaining about illegal immigration is not neccesarily complaining about mexicans, the mexican-american contribution to America should be respected and acknowledged, but to regard a complaint about people crossing the border illegally as an attack on mexicans or any other single group is misguided and not true. Maybe your geographic location has more impact on the nature of the remarks that you hear about Mexicans, our main immigrant groups are mainly from the Caribbean.
You see, my intention wasn't to offend anybody, just to provide a different/my opinion. This thread would have been of little value, debate, or fun if it was all "Republican/against" on down the line.

My main geographic location throughout life has been the West, (CA, WA, CO), so my views are going to mostly come from what I have experienced or seen out here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LLLL98 View Post
Yes I do know about the wet foot/dry foot policy and that is a completely unfair not to mention unneccesary policy put in place and continued because of the enourmous power of the Cuban population down here in South Florida. There is no logical reason why a Cuban should be allowed to stay, but a Haitian will be sent back, it makes no sense whatsoever. This just makes for a very bitter relationship between Cubans and other immigrant groups.
Couldn't agree more.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LLLL98 View Post
the blame should be placed on the individuals who are supplying jobs, housing, and free government services
Agreed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LLLL98 View Post
The arguement that illegal immigration is not wrong because no one enforces the laws doesn't really address the question. I guess the question should be, do you think the existing laws should be enforced more strictly? Or do you think there should be very lenient immigration laws?
I'm all for laws being enforced, that's why they were made in the first place. I used to work in a restaurant in Southern California, and guys coming in to apply for jobs as busboys or cooks would come in with the most obviously fake documents they could find, and would get jobs without a problem. I was appalled at this, but I couldn't blame them. I got to know many of them and many were good people. They were breaking the law, but I didn't think it's up to me to tell them that what they are doing is wrong, they know it, and are taking the chance on eventually getting caught and deported. One time, I helped a guy (illegal immigrant), translate (my Spanish is about as good as his English) after he got in a car accident. The Highway Patrol came and they knew he wasn't legally allowed to be in the USA, but they didn't care, they let him and his friends leave with me (he was a co-worker). I even asked the patrolmen if as soon as I left, was I going to get pulled over for transporting illegals, and the patrolmen told me no. So there you go.

Illegal immigration is wrong, I never said it was right, but the laws aren't being enforced very strictly right now, so I can't fault them for taking advantage. I don't mind them being here, so it doesn't hurt my feelings that much that the laws aren't enforced, but then again my feelings won't hurt that much once the laws are enforced either. So I can't really answer your question, because they know what kind of chance they are taking by being here. If laws were enacted gradually, to deter them from coming here I wouldn't have a problem with it, I'm strongly against a mass deportation. From what I understand, becoming a citizen is a long process that many don't want to undertake, many want to just come to make some cash to send back home to build a mansion any way. The others just find a way to fly under the radar. Maybe if they didn't have to pay fees, or learn English, they would be more apt at becoming citizens. Many get by without ever learning English, which I think is a detriment to themselves, not anybody else.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LLLL98 View Post
Most countries in the world that have high standards of living have very strict immigration standards, you have to prove that you are an asset to the country before you are allowed to enter. That makes sense to me, we have enough non-contributing citizens that are born here, we certainly don't need a bunch of non-contributing non-citizens entering from another country. No, not every illegal is a drain on our society, but the more illegals that enter the more likely the chance that some will enter who don't wish to add to our society in a positive way.
As far as Mexican/Central Americans go, many don't have the opportunities to become assets in their own countries. Those nations have the good ol' boys calling the shots, so the lower classes don't get the jobs or education they need to become marketable.

I think many illegal immigrants are contributors to society, most work, and also shop in our stores. I don't see anything wrong with working and shopping.

I tend to look at people under one scope, I think an American who doesn't add to society is no better than an illegal immigrant who doesn't add to society.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies > Illegal Immigration
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2018, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top