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Old 06-21-2008, 12:21 AM
 
Location: California
3,172 posts, read 5,995,777 times
Reputation: 332

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
In the past, this was indeed true. Immigrants were “forced” to assimilate….press 1 for English and 2 for Italian, German, etc. did not exist. Thus, prior immigrants “had” to learn English to work and survive in this country. There also was no bilingual signage. Thus, when immigrants shopped in stores, if they couldn’t read English, they were SOL. Same for product packaging, drivers’ license exams, voter registration forms, hospital patient info, etc., etc.

The “new wave” of Spanish-speaking immigrants have received unprecedented accommodations. Virtually everything is in both English and Spanish. Consequently, there is no “urgency” to learn English. Not only has our country provided everything in Spanish; some jobs even require their applicants to be bilingual (English/Spanish).

Furthermore, the past immigrants had a genuine desire to become “American” and everything it entailed. The fact is; many of the “immigrants” currently in this country do not share that burning desire, and do not feel compelled to become Americanized. Therein lies the problem.
As I said, my grandmother still doesnt speak English fluently. She wasn't "forced" to assimilate. Neither were my parents and myself. That wasnt the point. The point is, her kids and grandchildren speak English fluently. And nobody told them too. The immgirant's kids are going to be American either way. They will assimilate no matter what.
It has absolutely nothing to do with "desire" or whatever. Its natural. You can be surrounded by spanish speakers all your life, but if youre young and going to school in America, watching English Movies, watching English TV, your going to grow up American speaking English. Even with univision or telemundo whatever.
You have to trust me on this.

 
Old 06-21-2008, 09:00 AM
 
47,576 posts, read 58,711,508 times
Reputation: 22158
Quote:
Originally Posted by amc760 View Post
As I said, my grandmother still doesnt speak English fluently. She wasn't "forced" to assimilate. Neither were my parents and myself. That wasnt the point. The point is, her kids and grandchildren speak English fluently. And nobody told them too. The immgirant's kids are going to be American either way. They will assimilate no matter what.
It has absolutely nothing to do with "desire" or whatever. Its natural. You can be surrounded by spanish speakers all your life, but if youre young and going to school in America, watching English Movies, watching English TV, your going to grow up American speaking English. Even with univision or telemundo whatever.
You have to trust me on this.

That's probably what you told the native Americans when the boats from Europe arrived.

Assimilation is not a given. The push for "bilingual ed" which is really classrooms in Spanish, Mexican radio and television, and all government handouts provided in Spanish make assimilation very unlikely.

Our problems with the inner cities are in large part due to lack of integration (assimilation) with the greater American society -- and those are people who willingly learned English.

We need to get the American people better integrated and assimilated and employed before we go importing hundreds of millions of foreigners.
 
Old 06-21-2008, 09:05 AM
 
47,576 posts, read 58,711,508 times
Reputation: 22158
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
In the past, this was indeed true. Immigrants were “forced” to assimilate….press 1 for English and 2 for Italian, German, etc. did not exist. Thus, prior immigrants “had” to learn English to work and survive in this country. There also was no bilingual signage. Thus, when immigrants shopped in stores, if they couldn’t read English, they were SOL. Same for product packaging, drivers’ license exams, voter registration forms, hospital patient info, etc., etc.

The “new wave” of Spanish-speaking immigrants have received unprecedented accommodations. Virtually everything is in both English and Spanish. Consequently, there is no “urgency” to learn English. Not only has our country provided everything in Spanish; some jobs even require their applicants to be bilingual (English/Spanish).

Furthermore, the past immigrants had a genuine desire to become “American” and everything it entailed. The fact is; many of the “immigrants” currently in this country do not share that burning desire, and do not feel compelled to become Americanized. Therein lies the problem.

Exactly right. Miami is a perfect example. It's becoming less English speaking not more. And there is true anti-American discrimination in that city. A white, black, hispanic, or other American who isn't fluent in Spanish will not find a job. El Paso, Los Angleles are also going the same way.

The new law in Mexico which encourages "dual-citizenship" aims to keep Mexicans from assimilating into American society. They are to stay patriotic to Mexico but use USA citizenship to obtain more benefits. American for the money, Mexican in every other way.
 
Old 06-21-2008, 09:09 AM
 
8,973 posts, read 14,615,066 times
Reputation: 2983
Quote:
Originally Posted by malamute View Post
.

Assimilation is not a given. The push for "bilingual ed" which is really classrooms in Spanish, Mexican radio and television, and all government handouts provided in Spanish make assimilation very unlikely.
.
I understand your frustration, but I'll argue with you to a point. Assimilation is indeed a "given"...as long as it doesn't really mean anything. If we can agree that assimilation involves no sense of 'belonging' to American society as a whole, requires no 'loyalty' to the greater good of the nation, involves no "duties" of citizenship, and no "norms" of behavior, no cultural 'standards', and no real sense of what is, and is not, "appropriate" behavior, then assimilation REALLY IS a 'given'. If you can operate a microwave oven, a cell phone, and a TV remote, then BINGO !...you're "assimilated".

I don't happen to AGREE with the above..just trying to make the point that, today, that's pretty much the "way it is"...and it will probably be a pretty "cool" way to live, ( 'fun', even) until such time as our society is somehow "put to the test"...but heck..what's the chances of THAT ever happening?
 
Old 06-21-2008, 09:21 AM
 
47,576 posts, read 58,711,508 times
Reputation: 22158
Quote:
Originally Posted by macmeal View Post
I understand your frustration, but I'll argue with you to a point. Assimilation is indeed a "given"...as long as it doesn't really mean anything. If we can agree that assimilation involves no sense of 'belonging' to American society as a whole, requires no 'loyalty' to the greater good of the nation, involves no "duties" of citizenship, and no "norms" of behavior, no cultural 'standards', and no real sense of what is, and is not, "appropriate" behavior, then assimilation REALLY IS a 'given'. If you can operate a microwave oven, a cell phone, and a TV remote, then BINGO !...you're "assimilated".

I don't happen to AGREE with the above..just trying to make the point that, today, that's pretty much the "way it is"...

Except that they have microwaves and cell phones in Mexico and other countries. I don't think figuring those out has to do with assimilation at all.

I think assimilation means feeling a part of American society as a whole, being comfortable in the USA. I don't believe we have assimilated all the people whose ancestry might go back 300 years here.

Assimilation wouldn't have someone making statements like "why would I care what a bunch of white men wrote for a Constitution" yet that's what we hear La Raza types saying very often. They see things in terms of race and that shouldn't be what America is all about. They could care less about George Washington, Thomas Jefferson because they were nothing but evil gringoes, they want to keep Pancho Villa, Che Guevara as their national heroes.

Many "immigrants" coming to day could not care less about what has made this country great, they don't care about the ideals of the Founding Fathers. They have no interest in learning the language of this country, but are motivated only by money to come here.

Not all obviously. I think one of the problems is that most illegals first packed their bags with the idea of returning home someday, coming here to work was just a way to get over a financial hurdle but not because they really desired to become American and give up their own culture.

After arriving here and finding a Mexican community to live in, no need to learn English ever, and no reason to change anything, they decide they don't want to go back home and demand they be given citizenship because there are even more financial rewards in that.

I don't see how anyone can go to live forever in a foreign country and be so unmotivated to ever learn to speak a sentence in the language of that country -- yet we've got "immigrants" who have lived here 20-30 years and have made no effort to ever speak our language.
 
Old 06-21-2008, 10:40 AM
 
Location: San Diego North County
4,800 posts, read 7,689,216 times
Reputation: 3010
Quote:
Originally Posted by amc760 View Post
Theirs nothing wrong with ethnic pride. We don't have to give up our culture to become Americans.
If it wasnt for "ethnic pride", America's culture would be very very bland.

What is American culture anyways?
Nathaniel Hawthorne, Edgar Allan Poe, Henry David Thoreau, Mark Twain, Herman Melville, F. Scott Fitzgerald, poets Walt Whitman, T.S. Elliott, Emily Dickinson and Maya Angelou. Eleven U.S. citizens have won the Nobel Prize in Literature, including Toni Morrison in 1993. Ernest Hemingway, the 1954 Nobel laureate, is often named as one of the most influential writers of the twentieth century. Popular literary genres such as the Western and hardboiled crime fiction developed in the United States.

Broadway, blue jeans, the Space Shuttle Program, North Carolina BBQ, Mickey Mouse, James Brown, Barbie, Dr. Pepper, Elvis Presley, Bob Hope, Aerosmith, Babe Ruth, crab cakes, Gone with the Wind, Marilyn Monroe, Buddy Rich, Indiana Jones, chocolate chip cookies, Sesame Street, Baseball, the Human Genome Project, American football, Apple Pie, jazz, the blues, Hip Hop, Judy Garland, country music, Ralph Lauren, Starbucks, Jack Daniels, Calvin Klein, Michael Jordan, Dizzy Gillespie, LaDainian Tomlinson, the Chicago performing arts scene, Nat King Cole, Ella Fitzgerald, the entrepreneurial spirit, Lucille Ball, Wilt Chamberlain, Hollywood and Vine....

You know, you're right. There's no such thing as an "American Culture."
 
Old 06-21-2008, 11:13 AM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,813,362 times
Reputation: 3028
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kele View Post
Nathaniel Hawthorne, Edgar Allan Poe, Henry David Thoreau, Mark Twain, Herman Melville, F. Scott Fitzgerald, poets Walt Whitman, T.S. Elliott, Emily Dickinson and Maya Angelou. Eleven U.S. citizens have won the Nobel Prize in Literature, including Toni Morrison in 1993. Ernest Hemingway, the 1954 Nobel laureate, is often named as one of the most influential writers of the twentieth century. Popular literary genres such as the Western and hardboiled crime fiction developed in the United States.

Broadway, blue jeans, the Space Shuttle Program, North Carolina BBQ, Mickey Mouse, James Brown, Barbie, Dr. Pepper, Elvis Presley, Bob Hope, Aerosmith, Babe Ruth, crab cakes, Gone with the Wind, Marilyn Monroe, Buddy Rich, Indiana Jones, chocolate chip cookies, Sesame Street, Baseball, the Human Genome Project, American football, Apple Pie, jazz, the blues, Hip Hop, Judy Garland, country music, Ralph Lauren, Starbucks, Jack Daniels, Calvin Klein, Michael Jordan, Dizzy Gillespie, LaDainian Tomlinson, the Chicago performing arts scene, Nat King Cole, Ella Fitzgerald, the entrepreneurial spirit, Lucille Ball, Wilt Chamberlain, Hollywood and Vine....

You know, you're right. There's no such thing as an "American Culture."
Beautiful!!!
 
Old 06-21-2008, 11:13 AM
 
8,973 posts, read 14,615,066 times
Reputation: 2983
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kele View Post
Nathaniel Hawthorne, Edgar Allan Poe, Henry David Thoreau, Mark Twain, Herman Melville, F. Scott Fitzgerald, poets Walt Whitman, T.S. Elliott, Emily Dickinson and Maya Angelou. Eleven U.S. citizens have won the Nobel Prize in Literature, including Toni Morrison in 1993. Ernest Hemingway, the 1954 Nobel laureate, is often named as one of the most influential writers of the twentieth century. Popular literary genres such as the Western and hardboiled crime fiction developed in the United States.

Broadway, blue jeans, the Space Shuttle Program, North Carolina BBQ, Mickey Mouse, James Brown, Barbie, Dr. Pepper, Elvis Presley, Bob Hope, Aerosmith, Babe Ruth, crab cakes, Gone with the Wind, Marilyn Monroe, Buddy Rich, Indiana Jones, chocolate chip cookies, Sesame Street, Baseball, the Human Genome Project, American football, Apple Pie, jazz, the blues, Hip Hop, Judy Garland, country music, Ralph Lauren, Starbucks, Jack Daniels, Calvin Klein, Michael Jordan, Dizzy Gillespie, LaDainian Tomlinson, the Chicago performing arts scene, Nat King Cole, Ella Fitzgerald, the entrepreneurial spirit, Lucille Ball, Wilt Chamberlain, Hollywood and Vine....

You know, you're right. There's no such thing as an "American Culture."
That's not enough....I want names and addresses....and I want sources for your allegations !!
 
Old 06-21-2008, 11:18 AM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,813,362 times
Reputation: 3028
Quote:
Originally Posted by macmeal View Post
That's not enough....I want names and addresses....and I want sources for your allegations !!
I can always count on you to bring a smile to my face. Thanks!
 
Old 06-21-2008, 11:33 AM
 
8,973 posts, read 14,615,066 times
Reputation: 2983
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
I can always count on you to bring a smile to my face. Thanks!
Thanks....that's very American of you....
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