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Old 07-30-2008, 01:22 PM
 
Location: Arizona
2,065 posts, read 3,181,575 times
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Interesting stuff...

What's that old saying about "Where there's smoke...?
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Old 07-30-2008, 01:31 PM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,857,919 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anonymous Political Junky View Post
Except that Mexican is not a race. It is a nationality.
Absolutely! The same way "American" is not a race. He has to continue with his Mexican "race" rhetoric to support his argument that Mexicans are being discriminated against due to race. That’s the only way the “race card” can be played.
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Old 07-30-2008, 02:05 PM
 
7,020 posts, read 9,920,961 times
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Originally Posted by camping! View Post
(sigh).........Look, pedophile priests were horrible, definatly a scandal and you will have no argument from me that those involved in covering it up were just as guilty as the priests themselves.
But..........while I am not naive enough to think that all pedophiles have been rooted out of the clergy neither do I believe that church will or can cover up any current or future allegations of abuse. Catholics know of it, talk openly about it and believe me are watching the priests very closely. I talked of this before....that unlike years before where each parish was an island now people talk about what is going on in each parish --- news of pedophilia would travel fast I assure you. Also, people no longer trust that the archbishop will handle things appropriately. Basically, there is accountability. Catholics learned to talk with their wallets by withholding tithing. And it worked. The last pedophile priest in my area was caught by his housekeeper who called police after finding pictures. The archdiocese cut him loose -- finally. It is a new age, and that sh** is over.
Now about illegals I totally agree with you. They will be much less likely to question authority plus unlike their richer catholic counterparts who only have two or three children they have several more. The catholic church needs to get out of politics and needs to stop encouraging illegal immigration.
I tried to tread lightly as I know this is a very serious and sensitive subject. I apologize to any catholic that I may have offended, and I do indeed pray that the rampant decades of pedophilia is behind them.

As for them getting out of politics, agreed. Either that or surrender their tax exempt status. That one should go for all "churches".
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Old 07-30-2008, 02:07 PM
 
7,020 posts, read 9,920,961 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
Absolutely! The same way "American" is not a race. He has to continue with his Mexican "race" rhetoric to support his argument that Mexicans are being discriminated against due to race. That’s the only way the “race card” can be played.
That's because they are running out of excuses.
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Old 07-31-2008, 06:19 AM
 
Location: Western Cary, NC
4,349 posts, read 6,502,931 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JDubsMom View Post
I tried to tread lightly as I know this is a very serious and sensitive subject. I apologize to any catholic that I may have offended, and I do indeed pray that the rampant decades of pedophilia is behind them.

As for them getting out of politics, agreed. Either that or surrender their tax exempt status. That one should go for all "churches".
JDubsMon,
You should never have to apologize for the truth. I think the cover up by the church and any other powerful organizations need to be exposed when found. Our society has become so political correct, we have lost the ability to inform the truth to the people, and it cost us in lives.
Look at the cover up with smoking. Large companies continued to enhance tobacco for years, making it more addictive and adding to the death count until people broke the news to the public. Now we have laws informing and trying to protecting the public.

The Catholic Church hiding illegal immigrates encourage more to try and cross the border. Hiding child abusers, bank fraud, laundering mob money, smuggling WW II War Criminals, running death camps in Croatia in WW II, involvement in the 1999 Serbian genocide, connection with several ongoing African wars and genocides, involvement in attempted government overthrows, all sound too hard to believe, but the documentation is there, and it seems to be but a few of the Vatican Banks side businesses.

I think not to expose these issues, to the Church members, and also the public in general only allows the repeat these crimes.

I know very few Catholics who would approve of any of these crimes, and I suspect the attempt to shore up membership with Hispanics in the US, and the fact that one in ten Americans are past Catholics is a good sigh Americans are seeing there is more of a problem than the child abuse.

At any rate good post and keep it up.

Last edited by cncracer; 07-31-2008 at 06:55 AM..
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Old 07-31-2008, 08:56 AM
 
8,180 posts, read 11,064,350 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cncracer View Post
JDubsMon,
You should never have to apologize for the truth. I think the cover up by the church and any other powerful organizations need to be exposed when found. Our society has become so political correct, we have lost the ability to inform the truth to the people, and it cost us in lives.
Look at the cover up with smoking. Large companies continued to enhance tobacco for years, making it more addictive and adding to the death count until people broke the news to the public. Now we have laws informing and trying to protecting the public.

The Catholic Church hiding illegal immigrates encourage more to try and cross the border. Hiding child abusers, bank fraud, laundering mob money, smuggling WW II War Criminals, running death camps in Croatia in WW II, involvement in the 1999 Serbian genocide, connection with several ongoing African wars and genocides, involvement in attempted government overthrows, all sound too hard to believe, but the documentation is there, and it seems to be but a few of the Vatican Banks side businesses.

I think not to expose these issues, to the Church members, and also the public in general only allows the repeat these crimes.

I know very few Catholics who would approve of any of these crimes, and I suspect the attempt to shore up membership with Hispanics in the US, and the fact that one in ten Americans are past Catholics is a good sigh Americans are seeing there is more of a problem than the child abuse.

At any rate good post and keep it up.
I haven't had a chance to read the links you sent me....but I will.

However, I do think it is a slap in the face to catholics to think they are sitting back and letting priests rape their children. It is in now known and they are watching believe me. Also, I think there is a lesson to be learned from the catholics for all other demonations......just because someone purports to be a man of god doesn't mean that they are. Rabbi's, Rev's, Pastor's, Imam's --- they all could be pedophiles and it would behoove all parents to be aware of that. So please, don't think that it only can happen in the catholic church --- it can and does happen everywhere.
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Old 07-31-2008, 09:02 AM
 
Location: Western Cary, NC
4,349 posts, read 6,502,931 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by camping! View Post
I haven't had a chance to read the links you sent me....but I will.

However, I do think it is a slap in the face to catholics to think they are sitting back and letting priests rape their children. It is in now known and they are watching believe me. Also, I think there is a lesson to be learned from the catholics for all other demonations......just because someone purports to be a man of god doesn't mean that they are. Rabbi's, Rev's, Pastor's, Imam's --- they all could be pedophiles and it would behoove all parents to be aware of that. So please, don't think that it only can happen in the catholic church --- it can and does happen everywhere.
Camper we are on the same page, I think I have a wider view and watch the Church in Rome because of all the historical data related to them. I also watch a lot of other organizations and not just religious ones.
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Old 07-31-2008, 09:51 AM
 
7,020 posts, read 9,920,961 times
Reputation: 1094
Quote:
Originally Posted by cncracer View Post
JDubsMon,
You should never have to apologize for the truth. I think the cover up by the church and any other powerful organizations need to be exposed when found. Our society has become so political correct, we have lost the ability to inform the truth to the people, and it cost us in lives.
Look at the cover up with smoking. Large companies continued to enhance tobacco for years, making it more addictive and adding to the death count until people broke the news to the public. Now we have laws informing and trying to protecting the public.

The Catholic Church hiding illegal immigrates encourage more to try and cross the border. Hiding child abusers, bank fraud, laundering mob money, smuggling WW II War Criminals, running death camps in Croatia in WW II, involvement in the 1999 Serbian genocide, connection with several ongoing African wars and genocides, involvement in attempted government overthrows, all sound too hard to believe, but the documentation is there, and it seems to be but a few of the Vatican Banks side businesses.

I think not to expose these issues, to the Church members, and also the public in general only allows the repeat these crimes.

I know very few Catholics who would approve of any of these crimes, and I suspect the attempt to shore up membership with Hispanics in the US, and the fact that one in ten Americans are past Catholics is a good sigh Americans are seeing there is more of a problem than the child abuse.

At any rate good post and keep it up.

Excellent post and ITA. It's my pleasure to rep you for it
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Old 07-31-2008, 10:03 AM
 
7,020 posts, read 9,920,961 times
Reputation: 1094
Quote:
Originally Posted by camping! View Post
I haven't had a chance to read the links you sent me....but I will.

However, I do think it is a slap in the face to catholics to think they are sitting back and letting priests rape their children. It is in now known and they are watching believe me. Also, I think there is a lesson to be learned from the catholics for all other demonations......just because someone purports to be a man of god doesn't mean that they are. Rabbi's, Rev's, Pastor's, Imam's --- they all could be pedophiles and it would behoove all parents to be aware of that. So please, don't think that it only can happen in the catholic church --- it can and does happen everywhere.
I think you have totally misunderstood both myself and cncracer. Nobody has accused the parishoners of having prior knowledge or condoning the disgusting and disgraceful actions of the priest. However, I have seen more than one documentary that clearly exposes decades of prior knowledge and cover up of the sexual abuse of alter boys and other children by those higher up in the church authority. Often times, after obtaining full knowledge of the pedophilia comitted, they were duplicitous in playing "musical chairs" with the priests, in order to keep the truth about the predatory priests from exposure.

In addition to the many documentaries of their taking advantage of the parents trust and molesting innocent children, there was one documentary where a mentally ill woman who was having an affair with a priest, gave birth and committed suicide when he refused to leave the church and marry her. This fact was hidden until the child of the priest uncovered the truth during adulthood. This particular priest was moved from one sanctuary to the next after repeatedly being exposed for having affairs, when he should have been dismissed.

All that being said I think both myself and cncracer are fully aware that large numbers of parishoners have since left the catholic church as a result of the scandal.

Last edited by JDubsMom; 07-31-2008 at 10:15 AM..
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Old 07-31-2008, 11:08 AM
 
8,180 posts, read 11,064,350 times
Reputation: 2878
Quote:
Originally Posted by JDubsMom View Post
I think you have totally misunderstood both myself and cncracer. Nobody has accused the parishoners of having prior knowledge or condoning the disgusting and disgraceful actions of the priest. However, I have seen more than one documentary that clearly exposes decades of prior knowledge and cover up of the sexual abuse of alter boys and other children by those higher up in the church authority. Often times, after obtaining full knowledge of the pedophilia comitted, they were duplicitous in playing "musical chairs" with the priests, in order to keep the truth about the predatory priests from exposure.

In addition to the many documentaries of their taking advantage of the parents trust and molesting innocent children, there was one documentary where a mentally ill woman who was having an affair with a priest, gave birth and committed suicide when he refused to leave the church and marry her. This fact was hidden until the child of the priest uncovered the truth during adulthood. This particular priest was moved from one sanctuary to the next after repeatedly being exposed for having affairs, when he should have been dismissed.

All that being said I think both myself and cncracer are fully aware that large numbers of parishoners have since left the catholic church as a result of the scandal.
On this you and cncracer are singing to the choir. Having been raised catholic and having relatives who still are practicing catholics I don't need to watch a documentary to know what is and has been going on.
Absolutely 'bad' priests were moved around and crimes covered up. My point is only that while it is naive to suggest that there are no pedophiles left in the priesthood (of any demonation, really) the catholics themselves are on top of this. Plus, to give the church a modicum of credit they have instituted various programs that are taught once a year throughout all parishes (schools and ccds) that warns of the dangers of pedophila to children (i.e. if a trusted adult such as a teacher, family friend, priest wants you to keep a secret from your family --- this is wrong type of thing).
So, while the catholic churh as a whole has a lot of answering to do for its reaction to pedophilia in the past, it is a whole new ballgame.
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