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Old 08-01-2009, 02:02 PM
 
Location: Mesa, Az
21,148 posts, read 36,628,664 times
Reputation: 3785

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Canaan-84 View Post
How far back can that test go? It sounds interesting though when I googled it all I found was paternity DNA tests.
Google identigene

In my case; all I got was the basic test, the more extensive ones was $$$ which I did not have at the time.

 
Old 08-01-2009, 04:53 PM
 
8,973 posts, read 14,617,384 times
Reputation: 2983
Quote:
Originally Posted by Canaan-84 View Post
Also, I highly doubt the northern part of Mexico would become part of the U.S.
It did once....
 
Old 08-01-2009, 04:56 PM
 
Location: Mesa, Az
21,148 posts, read 36,628,664 times
Reputation: 3785
Quote:
Originally Posted by macmeal View Post
It did once....
Ouch! And southern Mexico was a bit bigger till Guatemala pulled a 'Texas 1836' a while back.
 
Old 08-01-2009, 06:55 PM
 
27 posts, read 29,650 times
Reputation: 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by ArizonaBear View Post
And newer groups of American Indians subjugated the previous nations/tribes so it was not just a Euro White thing.

Besides: all human beings can trace their DNA to E Africa 60K years ago----------so that makes all people in the New World 'immigrants'
Yes indeed they were many fights amongst the various native tribes, but the fact is that Europeans are the ones who made a point of eliminate the natives. As for our African roots, yes indeed we human beings originated there, but that doesn't change the fact that native Indians were here before the Europeans, African and other. So, please do not try to state that because we all originally (as human) originated from Africa, That native Indians are not the rightful inhabited of this continent.Anyway my point was, we might disagree on illegal immigration today, but we have to take in consideration that everyone, beside "US" native Indians cannot claim that this land is really theirs, on the other hand Natives can legitimately ask people to go back where they are from( thing that we do not do, or rather can't do). We must learn to be kind and just in regards to what we ask of others, most importantly how we treat others .... that's all.
An illegal person, might be here for many reasons, some good, some not so good, some not good at all. The US as a country must indeed apply the law to protect his interest, but it must be done in all fairness, without marginalise a specific group of people.I personally know many people who are not Mexicans nor of Hispanic origins who have been illegally living here for many years, and are never persecuted for being illegal immigrants. You know why? because of the way they look... some are "white, some are black, some are Asian". Many in New England are actually Canadian from Quebec, I have not heard yet of a big outrage about the Canadian taking over New England...why is that???
All I am saying people just need to be fair when they make judgement that's it.
PS: To the people who really believe that all Mexicans in the US are illegal. Well I have a news for you, some today US citizen of Mexican origins have been in the US before territory such as California, Texas, Arizona etc....... were even part of the US. So, you know what? they are as American as you are and their families have always been there, contrarily to yours who illegally immigrated there many many many years after.

Last edited by 2newintown; 08-01-2009 at 07:09 PM..
 
Old 08-01-2009, 07:20 PM
 
Location: Mesa, Az
21,148 posts, read 36,628,664 times
Reputation: 3785
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2newintown View Post
Yes indeed they were many fights amongst the various native tribes, but the fact is that Europeans are the ones who made a point of eliminate the natives. As for our African roots, yes indeed we human beings originated there, but that doesn't change the fact that native Indians were here before the Europeans, African and other. So, please do not try to state that because we all originally (as human) originated from Africa, That native Indians are not the rightful inhabited of this continent.Anyway my point was, we might disagree on illegal immigration today, but we have to take in consideration that everyone, beside "US" native Indians cannot claim that this land is really theirs, on the other hand Natives can legitimately ask people to go back where they are from( thing that we do not do, or rather can't do). We must learn to be kind and just in regards to what we ask of others, most importantly how we treat others .... that's all.
An illegal person, might be here for many reasons, some good, some not so good, some not good at all. The US as a country must indeed apply the law to protect his interest, but it must be done in all fairness, without marginalise a specific group of people.I personally know many people who are not Mexicans nor of Hispanic origins who have been illegally living here for many years, and are never persecuted for being illegal immigrants. You know why? because of the way they look... some are "white, some are black, some are Asian". Many in New England are actually Canadian from Quebec, I have not heard yet of a big outrage about the Canadian taking over New England...why is that???
All I am saying people just need to be fair when they make judgement that's it.
PS: To the people who really believe that all Mexicans in the US are illegal. Well I have a news for you, some today US citizen of Mexican origins have been in the US before territory such as California, Texas, Arizona etc....... were even part of the US. So, you know what? they are as American as you are and their families have always been there, contrarily to yours who illegally immigrated there many many many years after.
Two quick notes here:

#1: the reality is that the Euros (both Anglo and Hispanic) were simply a bigger and badder group of 'Indians' who subjugated the previous people here. I am not saying it was right by today's standards but, back then, to the victor goes the spoils.

#2: as for illegal aliens of any race/ethnicity; the USA is a sovereign nation and we have the right and the power to boot those criminal losers out--------which is occurring as we speak As for my direct ancestors-----------they all came to the USA legally so your argument is moot as it pertains to me personally.
 
Old 08-01-2009, 07:37 PM
 
27 posts, read 29,650 times
Reputation: 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by ArizonaBear View Post
Two quick notes here:

#1: the reality is that the Euros (both Anglo and Hispanic) were simply a bigger and badder group of 'Indians' who subjugated the previous people here. I am not saying it was right by today's standards but, back then, to the victor goes the spoils.

#2: as for illegal aliens of any race/ethnicity; the USA is a sovereign nation and we have the right and the power to boot those criminal losers out--------which is occurring as we speak As for my direct ancestors-----------they all came to the USA legally so your argument is moot as it pertains to me personally.

#1 I see that you have read my posting and answered...Good.
# 2 Trying to justify wrong acts does not suddenly make them good, no matter when they were done
# 3 Your ancestors came legallygood for you.( when did they came btw?)
# 4 As a nation of law and human rights advocates, we just need to treat all the people who break our rules the same...that's all.
 
Old 08-01-2009, 08:07 PM
 
8,973 posts, read 14,617,384 times
Reputation: 2983
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2newintown View Post
Yes indeed they were many fights amongst the various native tribes, but the fact is that Europeans are the ones who made a point of eliminate the natives. As for our African roots, yes indeed we human beings originated there, but that doesn't change the fact that native Indians were here before the Europeans, African and other. So, please do not try to state that because we all originally (as human) originated from Africa, That native Indians are not the rightful inhabited of this continent.Anyway my point was, we might disagree on illegal immigration today, but we have to take in consideration that everyone, beside "US" native Indians cannot claim that this land is really theirs, on the other hand Natives can legitimately ask people to go back where they are from( thing that we do not do, or rather can't do). We must learn to be kind and just in regards to what we ask of others, most importantly how we treat others .... that's all.
An illegal person, might be here for many reasons, some good, some not so good, some not good at all. The US as a country must indeed apply the law to protect his interest, but it must be done in all fairness, without marginalise a specific group of people.I personally know many people who are not Mexicans nor of Hispanic origins who have been illegally living here for many years, and are never persecuted for being illegal immigrants. You know why? because of the way they look... some are "white, some are black, some are Asian". Many in New England are actually Canadian from Quebec, I have not heard yet of a big outrage about the Canadian taking over New England...why is that???
All I am saying people just need to be fair when they make judgement that's it.
PS: To the people who really believe that all Mexicans in the US are illegal. Well I have a news for you, some today US citizen of Mexican origins have been in the US before territory such as California, Texas, Arizona etc....... were even part of the US. So, you know what? they are as American as you are and their families have always been there, contrarily to yours who illegally immigrated there many many many years after.
I agree with most of what you say...as far as it goes. I've been married to a "native" for 40 years...so I have some interest in this. (The 'native' I'm married to had a Spanish surname, if that is of any importance..and was raised in a bilingual household).

Yes, there's some prejudice in our society. How much? I'm not sure. Compared to what OTHER society? Not sure about that, either. Maybe we're "worse" than any other society....maybe not. Or maybe we're just more willing to discuss it. I don't know.

Why do illegal "Mexicans" get picked on, while illegal French-Canadians do not? Maybe because of racial prejudice...or maybe because illegal French-Canadians have no "lobby"...maybe because French-Canadians don't claim tto have ever "owned" New England..or maybe because Mexicans form by far the LARGEST segment...(and the LOUDEST) of ALL illegal groups...Frankly, I don't know.

I don't "hate" illegals...I've known, worked with, helped (and BEEN helped by), found jobs for, found housing for, attended quinceaneras with, and even been RELATED to, illegal Mexicans for decades. At one time, illegal immigration was a 'win-win' situation, was common THROUGHOUT the Southwest, caused LITTLE objection from the 'gringos', and was generally looked at as an all-around "non-issue". Today, obviously, MOST of that has changed. Why? It would take PAGES of wording to even BEGIN to get into "why".

I respect your position as a "native", and value your opinion. I may not think your opinion goes FAR enough, but I'm here..and I'm listening...and you certainly have the "right" to be in this discussion, at LEAST as much as anyone else.

All the best to you....from a very MODERATE 'anti-illegal'.
 
Old 08-01-2009, 08:28 PM
 
Location: Houston, Texas
1,164 posts, read 1,277,354 times
Reputation: 387
Quote:
Originally Posted by antireconquista View Post
The NCLR, LULAC, MALDEF, US Chamber of Commerce, PRLDEF, CHIRLA, ADL, SPLC, ACLU, AFL-CIO, AILA, various business groups, various religious groups, etc.

I could continue listing forever.
I'm sure if the U.S. began deporting large numbers of Polish, Canadian, African and Asian immigrants they'd begin to lobby as well. There are about 65,000-75,000 illegal Canadians in the U.S. but only about 600 of them have been detained (less than 1%) .
 
Old 08-01-2009, 08:32 PM
 
Location: Mesa, Az
21,148 posts, read 36,628,664 times
Reputation: 3785
Quote:
Originally Posted by Canaan-84 View Post
I'm sure if the U.S. began deporting large numbers of Polish, Canadian, African and Asian immigrants they'd begin to lobby as well. There are about 65,000-75,000 illegal Canadians in the U.S. but only about 600 of them have been detained (less than 1%) .
Boot 'em all out!
 
Old 08-01-2009, 09:22 PM
 
27 posts, read 29,650 times
Reputation: 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by macmeal View Post
I agree with most of what you say...as far as it goes. I've been married to a "native" for 40 years...so I have some interest in this. (The 'native' I'm married to had a Spanish surname, if that is of any importance..and was raised in a bilingual household).

Yes, there's some prejudice in our society. How much? I'm not sure. Compared to what OTHER society? Not sure about that, either. Maybe we're "worse" than any other society....maybe not. Or maybe we're just more willing to discuss it. I don't know.

Why do illegal "Mexicans" get picked on, while illegal French-Canadians do not? Maybe because of racial prejudice...or maybe because illegal French-Canadians have no "lobby"...maybe because French-Canadians don't claim tto have ever "owned" New England..or maybe because Mexicans form by far the LARGEST segment...(and the LOUDEST) of ALL illegal groups...Frankly, I don't know.

I don't "hate" illegals...I've known, worked with, helped (and BEEN helped by), found jobs for, found housing for, attended quinceaneras with, and even been RELATED to, illegal Mexicans for decades. At one time, illegal immigration was a 'win-win' situation, was common THROUGHOUT the Southwest, caused LITTLE objection from the 'gringos', and was generally looked at as an all-around "non-issue". Today, obviously, MOST of that has changed. Why? It would take PAGES of wording to even BEGIN to get into "why".

I respect your position as a "native", and value your opinion. I may not think your opinion goes FAR enough, but I'm here..and I'm listening...and you certainly have the "right" to be in this discussion, at LEAST as much as anyone else.

All the best to you....from a very MODERATE 'anti-illegal'.
I respect your opinion and your position in regards to this matter. I can understand that illegal immigration creates many problems for security, economy and just being able to to control who is in one's country. What I hate is marginalising one specific group of people and stereotyping them in other to put a "face" to hate, prejudice, fear".
We as a country must control the influx of immigrants, but all I wish is that it will be done fairly and humanly.
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