U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies > Illegal Immigration
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Closed Thread Start New Thread
 
Old 06-23-2008, 06:52 PM
 
4,828 posts, read 6,800,370 times
Reputation: 620

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by amc760 View Post
Now youre comparing Black people to the KKK? haha.



Jamiel Shaw presented himself as a BLOOD.

He could've got him killed by a lot of people with the way he was presenting himself.

Would you still be playing your fake sympathy if he had been murdered by a Rolling 30s Crip? Or if had been killed by a member of a rival Blood set?
Chances are, if that happened, you would have never heard about it, because that crap happens EVERYDAY.

Just like you never hear about the Mexicans being murdered by Blacks, including 3 year old Kaitlyn Avila.

Would you have felt better if Jamiel Shaw had been killed by a legal member of 18th Street?



FACT is, Jamiel was wearing a RED belt with the number 20 on it in a Rollin' 20s Blood neighborhood.
Espinoza was a member of 18th Street which is at war with that gang.

Jamiel might as well have been wearing a target sign.

It could have been any other gang, but it happened to be Espinoza, an illegal immigrant who came here at the age of FOUR.
I dont think he came here a criminal. He learned the ways of gangs HERE.

And the murder was less race than gang related. After the killing, Espinoza was qouted to be saying "BK all day." "Im gonna wipe out those bloods". BK means Blood killer. He wasnt saying "ahm gna kill me sum black folk!"
He asked Jamiel, "where you from?" What did Jamiel say back? Did he twist his fingers like in all those pictures?

If people care so much about people like Jamiel Shaw, which I doubt, work on cleaning the neighborhoods that breed people with attitudes that Espinoza had, and Jamiel also seemed to have.

Nobody cared about the ghettos until illegal immigrants started moving in there.

Its not a smear campaign against Jamiel. If the truth comes out, and it makes him seem less angelic, then sorry, but thats what it is.
The only smear campaign going on is against illegal immigrants and hispanics in general.
You got that one EXACTLY right.

 
Old 06-23-2008, 06:56 PM
 
4,828 posts, read 6,800,370 times
Reputation: 620
Quote:
Originally Posted by the one View Post
good perspective amc, but some people just want to blame the "illegal". this issue is way more complicated than that. dressing and acting like a thug, whether you are one or not will get you treated like one. by the real thugs and the ones with badges. thats just a reality most people dont understand because they dont live it.

but i do agree that special order 40 should be revised in order to question and document serious offenders. assault, robbery, murder, burglary, etc. not the, riding your bike without a helmet (like in costa mesa!), sleeping on a park bench, had a joint in your pocket, etc. type

go after the bad guys, i have no problem with that, be they black, brown, citizens or not.

and i cant rep you amc so sorry. im sure you prpbably got as many red as you got greens. tryna give you a lil more green. but excellent points. except that most people wont see it as such and still make this about citizenship, when it has to do with a lot more than that.
Agree, btw...the negative reps are off.(thank God, i was always in the red in this section of the forum)
 
Old 06-23-2008, 07:12 PM
 
Location: San Diego North County
4,800 posts, read 7,702,057 times
Reputation: 3010
Quote:
Originally Posted by amc760 View Post
Now youre comparing Black people to the KKK? haha.
I'm comparing Najee Ali's terroristic tactics toward Jamiel Shaw's family to the terroristic tactics used by the KKK. I think a little reading comprehension lesson is required here.

Additionally, if you watch the posted videos, you will see the people below being referred to as "Uncle Tom" and "KKK". I guess those analogies only meet with your approval if those being taunted are on the opposite side of the issue than you are.




Quote:
Jamiel Shaw presented himself as a BLOOD. He could've got him killed by a lot of people with the way he was presenting himself.
Pure speculation. So far, there has been no valid proof that Jamiel Shaw was a gang member. He was a good student, an excellent athlete, and a child whose mother was serving our country in Iraq as her son was being murdered by a person who should have never been in this country to begin with.

Your illegal alien sympathies are hanging out. This is about the fact that Jamiel Shaw's family is lobbying to revoke Special Order 40--the existence of which is the reason their son was killed to begin with. I don't care if the illegal alien murderer is a gang member, a member of MENSA, or a freakin' rodeo clown. He should have been deported NOT released back into the unsuspecting population of Los Angeles.

Quote:
Would you still be playing your fake sympathy if he had been murdered by a Rolling 30s Crip? Or if had been killed by a member of a rival Blood set? Chances are, if that happened, you would have never heard about it, because that crap happens EVERYDAY.
Gee, you mean there are actual homegrown criminals in the U.S.? Does that mean we can stop importing them illegally?

As a mother, my heart will always go out to any parent who loses a child. I cannot imagine anything more heartrending than the untimely death of one's child--especially when that death could have been prevented--as in this case. My sympathy for Jamiel Shaw's family--for the family of any slain child is most definitely NOT fake.

Quote:
Just like you never hear about the Mexicans being murdered by Blacks, including 3 year old Kaitlyn Avila. Would you have felt better if Jamiel Shaw had been killed by a legal member of 18th Street?
As I stated, we have enough people who are citizens of this country--ready to fold, spindle, and mutilate their fellow human beings ACROSS color lines. Why in God's name are we importing more?

Quote:
FACT is, Jamiel was wearing a RED belt with the number 20 on it in a Rollin' 20s Blood neighborhood. Espinoza was a member of 18th Street which is at war with that gang. Jamiel might as well have been wearing a target sign. It could have been any other gang, but it happened to be Espinoza, an illegal immigrant who came here at the age of FOUR. I dont think he came here a criminal. He learned the ways of gangs HERE.
Yeah, well I used to wear a red bandana all the time in L.A. too until somebody told me it really wasn't safe to do so. Just because a person wears clothing that could remotely be gang affiliated does not make them a gang member. Most of the people who knew Jamiel intimately still insist he was not a gang member. Again, it matters not a whit to me where Espinoza learned his evil ways. The fact remains that as an illegal alien, if he had been arrested somewhere other than the sanctuary city of Lost Angeles, CA where Special Order 40 protects the rights of criminals at the expense of its citizens, he would have been deported and Jamiel Shaw would still be alive. Regardless of what extent you believe Jamiel might have been involved in gang life, he still cared enough about himself and his life to stay in school and to be active in extracurricular activities that had NOTHING to do with gangs.

Quote:
And the murder was less race than gang related. After the killing, Espinoza was qouted to be saying "BK all day." "Im gonna wipe out those bloods". BK means Blood killer. He wasnt saying "ahm gna kill me sum black folk!" He asked Jamiel, "where you from?" What did Jamiel say back? Did he twist his fingers like in all those pictures?
What color are the members of "BK"?

Quote:
If people care so much about people like Jamiel Shaw, which I doubt, work on cleaning the neighborhoods that breed people with attitudes that Espinoza had, and Jamiel also seemed to have. Nobody cared about the ghettos until illegal immigrants started moving in there. Its not a smear campaign against Jamiel. If the truth comes out, and it makes him seem less angelic, then sorry, but thats what it is. The only smear campaign going on is against illegal immigrants and hispanics in general.
Many people I know, my father included, have worked in those neighborhoods for years--to categorically state that "nobody cared about those areas until illegal immigrants moved in" does them and all others who have dedicated their lives to people of all races in need a great disservice.

Only an illegal alien sympathizer could take the outcry against Special Order 40 and its disasterous effects and turn it into a racist besmirching of Hispanics in general. Why do you assume that all illegal aliens must be Hispanic?

In reading your post again though, I see that in order for you to feel okay about the death of a 17 year old child at the hands of an illegal alien, you have to believe that he was somehow less of a person and more deserving of slaughter because there's an off chance he might have been a gang member. I guess it helps you to sleep better at night if you imagine that all of the Americans who have died at the hands of illegal aliens OF ALL RACES AND CREEDS are somehow deserving of their fate.

Nice.

Last edited by Kele; 06-23-2008 at 07:51 PM..
 
Old 06-23-2008, 07:27 PM
 
1,398 posts, read 6,030,002 times
Reputation: 1798
If I were to answer in so cavalier a fashion as blackknight's "argument" has been presented, I would proffer that the so-called facts listed in our local newspapers brought out by the illegal's defense attorney, whose very job it is to villify the victim, were that the murder victim was wearing a belt with decorative skulls and the word "wild" on it. Frankly, I would be surprised at any stylin' teen boy in Los Angeles of any race who didn't wear such an item. Have you been to L.A. lately?

More seriously and to the point, gang members who interpret every hue in the rainbow and each human motor twitch as instant provocation are a notoriously moronic demographic. Remember the gang member here in L.A. who attacked a deaf couple who were innocently communicating with one another in American Sign Language? The moronic gangsta's "defense" was that "they was throwin' gang signs!" This is true, recorded in the newsmedia, and certainly not an urban legend.

Altogether, there is no possible excusing an illegal murdering anyone. Period. Special Order 40 should be revoked. Period.

And though I normally refrain from being personal
Quote:
Originally Posted by blacknight04 View Post
Agree, btw...the negative reps are off.(thank God, i was always in the red in this section of the forum)
leads me to comment, how else can one react to someone saying it is totally okay to break the laws of our country? Being knee-jerk pro-illegal is an insult to naturalized citizens, foreign nationals legally here for valid work reasons, and tax-paying citizens forced to foot the bill for these mean-spirited, nasty illegals here wholly to work the system. I know, I live right here with them in Los Angeles.

Last edited by fastfilm; 06-23-2008 at 07:44 PM..
 
Old 06-23-2008, 08:54 PM
 
4,828 posts, read 6,800,370 times
Reputation: 620
Quote:
Originally Posted by fastfilm View Post

And though I normally refrain from being personalleads me to comment, how else can one react to someone saying it is totally okay to break the laws of our country? Being knee-jerk pro-illegal is an insult to naturalized citizens, foreign nationals legally here for valid work reasons, and tax-paying citizens forced to foot the bill for these mean-spirited, nasty illegals here wholly to work the system. I know, I live right here with them in Los Angeles.

Yeah,yeah. Spare me the faux outrage.
 
Old 06-23-2008, 09:43 PM
 
Location: Mesa, Az
21,148 posts, read 36,685,038 times
Reputation: 3785
Quote:
Originally Posted by blacknight04 View Post
Yeah,yeah. Spare me the faux outrage.
I agree with fastfilm here..........
 
Old 06-23-2008, 10:20 PM
 
47,576 posts, read 58,858,290 times
Reputation: 22174
Quote:
Originally Posted by fastfilm View Post
If I were to answer in so cavalier a fashion as blackknight's "argument" has been presented, I would proffer that the so-called facts listed in our local newspapers brought out by the illegal's defense attorney, whose very job it is to villify the victim, were that the murder victim was wearing a belt with decorative skulls and the word "wild" on it. Frankly, I would be surprised at any stylin' teen boy in Los Angeles of any race who didn't wear such an item. Have you been to L.A. lately?

More seriously and to the point, gang members who interpret every hue in the rainbow and each human motor twitch as instant provocation are a notoriously moronic demographic. Remember the gang member here in L.A. who attacked a deaf couple who were innocently communicating with one another in American Sign Language? The moronic gangsta's "defense" was that "they was throwin' gang signs!" This is true, recorded in the newsmedia, and certainly not an urban legend.

Altogether, there is no possible excusing an illegal murdering anyone. Period. Special Order 40 should be revoked. Period.

And though I normally refrain from being personalleads me to comment, how else can one react to someone saying it is totally okay to break the laws of our country? Being knee-jerk pro-illegal is an insult to naturalized citizens, foreign nationals legally here for valid work reasons, and tax-paying citizens forced to foot the bill for these mean-spirited, nasty illegals here wholly to work the system. I know, I live right here with them in Los Angeles.
It's outrageous that foreign criminals are allowed to come into this country and kill Americans who belong here. There is no equivalence, an American is in the country he belongs in, the illegal had no business being here, and of course had no right to kill a citizen.

Immigration laws are meant to protect the citizens of a country, they exist for a reason and one could begin to suspect they are not being enforced for a very malicious reason.

To act like it was somehow a justifiable murder because Jamiel Shaw might have worn a color that made him deserve being murdered is about the most absurd justification for open borders and letting illegals do whatever they please. Blame the victim -- especially when he's a victim of a precious illegal.
 
Old 06-23-2008, 10:36 PM
 
Location: California
3,172 posts, read 6,005,884 times
Reputation: 332
my replies in bold.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kele View Post
I'm comparing Najee Ali's terroristic tactics toward Jamiel Shaw's family to the terroristic tactics used by the KKK. I think a little reading comprehension lesson is required here.
Is he burning crosses in front their home? Planting bombs on their house? Lynching them?
And Im pretty sure Ali was one of the first to speak out on Jamiel's murder as being race-related, something that was being spread around in the heat of the moment.
After things cooled down, and more research into the incident was done, he realized he jumped to that conclusion to fast and changed his stance.


Additionally, if you watch the posted videos, you will see the people below being referred to as "Uncle Tom" and "KKK". I guess those analogies only meet with your approval if those being taunted are on the opposite side of the issue than you are.

How do you know they meet my approval if I haven't even seen them?




Pure speculation. So far, there has been no valid proof that Jamiel Shaw was a gang member. He was a good student, an excellent athlete, and a child whose mother was serving our country in Iraq as her son was being murdered by a person who should have never been in this country to begin with.
PURE speculation would be if someone assumed he might have been targeted as Blood because he was a Black young male walking in a Bloods neighborhood.
But when he is found to have been wearing a red belt with the number 20 on it in a Rollin 20s Blood neighborhood, IS black, and the killer suggests he killed him because he was a Blood, then that is EVIDENCE leading people to believe he was killed because he was thought to be a Blood.
It doesn't matter if he was or not.
He emulated that image, and quite possibly caught a bullet because of it. Being an excellent athlete has absolutely nothing to do with it. Neither does his mother serving in Iraq.
You are a propagandists dream. You're letting irrelevant details cloud your judgement.

Your illegal alien sympathies are hanging out. This is about the fact that Jamiel Shaw's family is lobbying to revoke Special Order 40--the existence of which is the reason their son was killed to begin with. I don't care if the illegal alien murderer is a gang member, a member of MENSA, or a freakin' rodeo clown. He should have been deported NOT released back into the unsuspecting population of Los Angeles.
This is about exploiting the problem of gang violence and a young man's death to label this a hate crime, further splitting the Latino and Black communities for the sake of the agenda of the anti-illegal immigrants. Its completely irresponsible.


Gee, you mean there are actual homegrown criminals in the U.S.? Does that mean we can stop importing them illegally?
Pedro Espinoza was 4 years old when he arrived in America. He's basically a homegrown criminal. He wasn't an imported criminal, he was a child who grew up in the volatile climate of South Central Los Angeles which has been breeding gangbangers for decades.

As a mother, my heart will always go out to any parent who loses a child. I cannot imagine anything more heartrending than the untimely death of one's child--especially when that death could have been prevented--as in this case. My sympathy for Jamiel Shaw's family--for the family of any slain child is most definitely NOT fake.




As I stated, we have enough people who are citizens of this country--ready to fold, spindle, and mutilate their fellow human beings ACROSS color lines. Why in God's name are we importing more?



Yeah, well I used to wear a red bandana all the time in L.A. too until somebody told me it really wasn't safe to do so. Just because a person wears clothing that could remotely be gang affiliated does not make them a gang member. Most of the people who knew Jamiel intimately still insist he was not a gang member. Again, it matters not a whit to me where Espinoza learned his evil ways. The fact remains that as an illegal alien, if he had been arrested somewhere other than the sanctuary city of Lost Angeles, CA where Special Order 40 protects the rights of criminals at the expense of its citizens, he would have been deported and Jamiel Shaw would still be alive. Regardless of what extent you believe Jamiel might have been involved in gang life, he still cared enough about himself and his life to stay in school and to be active in extracurricular activities that had NOTHING to do with gangs.
A white woman wearing a red bandana in the westside or the valley or whatever isn't the same as a Black or Brown male doing the same anywhere in LA. People who grow up in neighborhood don't make mistakes like that.
And a red belt in a Bloods neighborhood is pretty obvious.
And a red belt with the number 20 on it in the Rollin 20s hood isnt "remotely" gang related.
And if he's on myspace saying stuff like "Eighteen Killer" (the gang Espinoza belonged to) "Crip Killer" etc etc, thats pretty incriminating. If you live in that neighborhood, and you have a myspace page that lots of kids from school are looking at, REAL Bloods are looking at, and your throwing up your hood that hard, people are going to take you seriously.



What color are the members of "BK"?

members? BK means blood killer. Its not a gang, its a statement. The color of people who say that? Black and Brown people of many different sets.


Many people I know, my father included, have worked in those neighborhoods for years--to categorically state that "nobody cared about those areas until illegal immigrants moved in" does them and all others who have dedicated their lives to people of all races in need a great disservice.

Only an illegal alien sympathizer could take the outcry against Special Order 40 and its disasterous effects and turn it into a racist besmirching of Hispanics in general. Why do you assume that all illegal aliens must be Hispanic?
hahah, nice try trying to flip it, but after everything else you've said? Weak attempt.

In reading your post again though, I see that in order for you to feel okay about the death of a 17 year old child at the hands of an illegal alien, you have to believe that he was somehow less of a person and more deserving of slaughter because there's an off chance he might have been a gang member. I guess it helps you to sleep better at night if you imagine that all of the Americans who have died at the hands of illegal aliens OF ALL RACES AND CREEDS are somehow deserving of their fate.

Nice.

Likely Jamiel could have outgrown his thug phase. Unlike many kids, he had a way out. But he shouldnt been messing around in the first place. Wear colors, and try to portray yourself as a tough guy, you might get taken out. Could have been a legal 18th Street member, could have been a Crip, could've been a different Blood set....if he wasn't really a Blood, it could've been a real member of the set he was throwing up killing him just for pretending he was one.
He was writing CK and EK all over his page. Who knows if he would have taken his affiliation further one day and been the one doing the killing?
Espinoza and apparently Jamiel are both products of the deep rooted problems in LA. It just happened to be Espinoza who took it all the way in this case.

But I didnt once defend Espinoza. He's going to get what he gets. I never defended the killer. But I will call out the exploitation of this murder by the anti-illegal camp. You guys jumped all over this when it hit the news. It was too good to be true.
A young black athlete, went to school had a promising future, a mother serving the country in Iraq, killed at random by vicious racist Illegal Mexican gangbanger! See! Ethnic Cleansing is REAL! Illegal Aliens really are killing people!

People were on this even BEFORE it turned out Espinoza was illegal. All he needed to be was Mexican.

But now the truth is coming out, and you don't want to hear it.

I am disgusted by the hypocrites that are using this murder for their agendas.

Outside the arraignment of Espinoza:

Gotta take a picture with a black man
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...l/DSC05791.jpg

Success! A black man and a brown man! No racist here!
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...l/DSC05798.jpg

Last edited by amc760; 06-23-2008 at 10:48 PM..
 
Old 06-23-2008, 11:29 PM
 
Location: San Diego North County
4,800 posts, read 7,702,057 times
Reputation: 3010
Quote:
Originally Posted by amc760 View Post
my replies in bold.
Frankly, I'm exhausted just trying to make sense of your post. I'd love to respond, but I used the last bit of my energy trying to wade through that dreck.

However, I do have this to say....



I also wanted to say that I love the fact that you feel free to comment on how you "believe" Najee Ali may have reacted to the murder of Jamiel Shaw, but admit to not having even bothered to watch the videos. Hilarious.

I'll respond to your little argument apart tomorrow if I have the time. I'm leaving for Europe Wednesday for six weeks and although I will bring my computer, I seriously doubt that sparing with you will rank high on my list as I make my way through Britain, Scotland, France, Belgium, Switzerland, and Italy.

Sorry.

BTW, I am also Native American. You are so quick to toss the race card about like juggling pins gone wild--it would behoove you to remember that as you continue to accuse me of racial insensitivity simply based on what you perceive to be the color of my skin.
 
Old 06-23-2008, 11:52 PM
 
Location: California
3,172 posts, read 6,005,884 times
Reputation: 332
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kele View Post
Frankly, I'm exhausted just trying to make sense of your post. I'd love to respond, but I used the last bit of my energy trying to wade through that dreck.

However, I do have this to say....



I also wanted to say that I love the fact that you feel free to comment on how you "believe" Najee Ali may have reacted to the murder of Jamiel Shaw, but admit to not having even bothered to watch the videos. Hilarious.

I'll respond to your little argument apart tomorrow if I have the time. I'm leaving for Europe Wednesday for six weeks and although I will bring my computer, I seriously doubt that sparing with you will rank high on my list as I make my way through Britain, Scotland, France, Belgium, Switzerland, and Italy.

Sorry.

BTW, I am also Native American. You are so quick to toss the race card about like juggling pins gone wild--it would behoove you to remember that as you continue to accuse me of racial insensitivity simply based on what you perceive to be the color of my skin.
Half of the "dreck" is yours.

I dont even see the link to your video. I know of Ali's statements because Ive been following that story as it has been developing.

And saying its different for a white woman to be wearing gang colors instead of a black or brown man is fact..not playing the race card. And I'm aware youre part Native American.
We have the same racial makeup!

I will however say that I believe you are far from knowledgable on certain topics regarding certain minorities in this country.

Enjoy Europe, and I hope you become engligthened.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Closed Thread

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies > Illegal Immigration
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2018, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top