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Old 06-23-2008, 09:46 PM
 
Location: Maine
15,156 posts, read 19,801,513 times
Reputation: 17370

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Quote:
Originally Posted by tinman01 View Post
Works pretty good between North and South Korea
Again: A tiny border compared to the U.S./Mexico border, and one guarded by hundreds of troops and the best weaponry in the world.

Do we really want 40,000 army troops using their time and our tax dollars to keep out cheap labor? A needless waste of their time and our money.

Start enforcing penalties against employers who hire illegals. THAT is the heart of the problem right there. If illegals know there are no jobs waiting for them, the flood across the border will slow to a trickle. A trickle we can control (without a silly fence). No fence is going to stop the current flood.

And really, until Mexico becomes a military dictatorship stuffed full of nuclear missiles, the North and South Korea comparison is pretty well unfounded.
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Old 06-23-2008, 09:55 PM
 
Location: Maine
15,156 posts, read 19,801,513 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ArizonaBear View Post
The Berlin Wall worked quite nicely keeping the East Germans in.

The difference between the East and West Germans was that most of the people on both sides of the Wall wanted it gone.

Re: our border with Mexico; most Americans want it closed/locked.
There are three BIG differences between the Berlin wall and the proposed fence a between the US and Mexico, one of which you've alread mentioned:

1.) The Berlin Wall was meant to keep people in, not out.

2.) The Berlin Wall was 96 miles long. The border between the United States and Mexico is just shy of 2000 miles long --- most of it rugged desert.

3.) The Berlin Wall actually wasn't all that successful. Lots of people got through. It wasn't easy, to be sure, but folks who were smart and determined enough made it.

A fence along the U.S./Mexico border is expensive, silly, impractical, and IT WON'T WORK. At best, it's a symbolic gesture to make certain people feel better.

There is a reason that illegal immigrants are coming here by the thousands. Remove that reason, and most of the problem will stop.
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Old 06-23-2008, 10:27 PM
 
Location: Mesa, Az
21,148 posts, read 36,690,703 times
Reputation: 3785
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark S. View Post
There are three BIG differences between the Berlin wall and the proposed fence a between the US and Mexico, one of which you've alread mentioned:

1.) The Berlin Wall was meant to keep people in, not out.

2.) The Berlin Wall was 96 miles long. The border between the United States and Mexico is just shy of 2000 miles long --- most of it rugged desert.

3.) The Berlin Wall actually wasn't all that successful. Lots of people got through. It wasn't easy, to be sure, but folks who were smart and determined enough made it.

A fence along the U.S./Mexico border is expensive, silly, impractical, and IT WON'T WORK. At best, it's a symbolic gesture to make certain people feel better.

There is a reason that illegal immigrants are coming here by the thousands. Remove that reason, and most of the problem will stop.
Remember the whole East-West German border-----and, there were fortifications all the way along Czechoslovakia, Hungary, Romania, Bulgaria, Greece and Turkey as well.

Too; the flow of people was slowed to a trickle attempting to cross after 1961.
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Old 06-23-2008, 11:38 PM
 
Location: Southern Arizona
9,310 posts, read 25,745,899 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark S. View Post
A fence along the U.S./Mexico border is expensive, silly, impractical, and IT WON'T WORK. At best, it's a symbolic gesture to make certain people feel better.

There is a reason that illegal immigrants are coming here by the thousands. Remove that reason, and most of the problem will stop.
You are absolutely correct, Mark . . . eliminating ALL INCENTIVES, not just employment, should be priority one.

However, we need the wall as well simply because it is obvious many individuals enter this country illegally for reasons other than employment . . . DRUGS AND CRIME for example plus ACTS OF TERRORISM.
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Old 06-24-2008, 08:27 AM
 
Location: Mesa, Az
21,148 posts, read 36,690,703 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bummer View Post
You are absolutely correct, Mark . . . eliminating ALL INCENTIVES, not just employment, should be priority one.

However, we need the wall as well simply because it is obvious many individuals enter this country illegally for reasons other than employment . . . DRUGS AND CRIME for example plus ACTS OF TERRORISM.
And; for the biggest 'legal' farce as well: Bush's Patriot Act mandating strict checks coming into the USA-------which apparently does not apply to illegals crossing the border via coyote.
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Old 06-24-2008, 09:59 AM
 
Location: Maine
15,156 posts, read 19,801,513 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bummer View Post
However, we need the wall as well simply because it is obvious many individuals enter this country illegally for reasons other than employment . . . DRUGS AND CRIME for example plus ACTS OF TERRORISM.
You really think a wall is going to stop a determined criminal or terrorist? A wall isn't going to stop jackrabbits.
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Old 06-24-2008, 11:12 AM
 
1,861 posts, read 2,972,301 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tinman01 View Post
Once again you hard hearted anti-illegals have misinterpreted what is actually going on.
The illegals leave those valuables as gift. Much the same as we would take used but perfectly good clothing items to the salvation army. It is our own fault for not putting collection boxes in convenient locations.
Dirty diapers? Used condoms? Feces?

No thanks, I don't want it.
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Old 06-24-2008, 11:17 AM
 
Location: San Diego North County
4,800 posts, read 7,703,406 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark S. View Post
You really think a wall is going to stop a determined criminal or terrorist? A wall isn't going to stop jackrabbits.
Good, then we won't hear the bleeding heart so called environmentalists screaming about the impact on local fauna then will we....
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Old 06-24-2008, 11:29 AM
 
8,973 posts, read 14,640,529 times
Reputation: 2983
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark S. View Post
You really think a wall is going to stop a determined criminal or terrorist? A wall isn't going to stop jackrabbits.
Please....I LOVE a good debate, but let's debate honestly. No one is suggesting a "wall" or a fence will keep out "determined criminals or terrorists"...OR jackrabbits.

What a "wall" will do is keep out tens of thousands of 'casual' crossers who might be seriously tempted to breach an 'invisible border' for a better job, but would NOT want to scale a high fence. It's both a physical and a psychological statement that says "No Trespassing" in a clear way.

Fences DO work..there's one around the White House...and there are THOUSANDS of miles of them. They serve their purpose, by keeping out the 'casual trespassers', freeing up law enforcement to concentrate on the really determined 'bad guys' for whom fences mean nothing.

Even if the border were only PARTIALLY fenced, few people would be tempted to walk 400 miles to find the nearest "hole".

The 'terrorist' angle is just silly "PC". Any terrorist 'worth his salt' wouldn't be fazed by a fence...and a very few terrorists are all it would 'take'....so, it's a silly thing to say. The "terrorist' pitch is made so that the 'fence' will be seen as having a 'noble' purpose, rather than the 'mean' or 'racist' purpose of just keeping out 'hard workers'.

If you don't want the fence, by all means say so. But don't tell anyone 'it won't keep out terrorists and jackrabbits'. We already know that. The fence will keep out 'casual trespassers', and that's what fences are SUPPOSED to do. Criminals? They'll still get in....and the 'cops' will be able to 'zero in' on them, with most of the illegal 'civilians' out of the way.
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Old 06-24-2008, 11:33 AM
 
Location: Southern Arizona
9,310 posts, read 25,745,899 times
Reputation: 10574
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark S. View Post
You really think a wall is going to stop a determined criminal or terrorist? A wall isn't going to stop jackrabbits.
No wall or fence will stop everyone or everything, however, DOING NOTHING IS BLATANT SUICIDE, not to mention, STUPIDITY!

Comparison . . . locking your vehicle as well as your home is not foolproof but . . .
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