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Old 10-09-2009, 05:05 PM
 
8,973 posts, read 14,617,384 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by briefstop View Post
Thanks for the calm approach.

A lot of people like to use the analogy of illegals being home invaders and stealing from the fridge. When we have food in the fridge that has been getting nibbled on, someone took a slice of pizza, someone took a drink of my gallon of juice, someone took a a couple beers from my 36 pack, do I go rudely interrogate the people I invited to stay for the weekend, and even my own brothers? Yeah, it would make sense to, but in reality, since they didn't, it would come off as extremely rude, and might even cause a rift in the family.
I'm big on analogies....I think they're effective, though of course none are perfect. The "home invaders raiding the fridge" has been used, as you suggest, many times Personally, I think it's a pretty fair analogy. I think there IS a parallel. I think that even "nice" people, at some point, would lose their patience at such 'minor' invasions of their home or property or their hospitality..and when they became 'fed up', I don't think that would mean they were neccessarily hateful, or 'mean', or 'down on people'....just that they had become understandably 'fed up'.

Your conclusions above are probably correct..."hounding" your own family, or your guests....over "who took my three beers" probably WOULD seem petty, stingy, 'trite', and would cause a 'rift' in the family.

But what if your beer disappeared every DAY? What if it wasn't only your guests taking it...but FRIENDS of your guests, whom you didn't invite? What if you gave a big party for 100 guests, and 50 'extras' showed up, DEMANDING to be fed and entertained, and DEMANDING you extend the same hospitality to them, as to your invited guests, and threatening to 'raise Holy Hell' if you tried to get them to go home? Would you get annoyed? Mad? Feel violated? Would your reaction mean you "hated" these people? Would the 'fault' for this unpleasantness lie with YOU...or with your uninvited guests?

Analogies are good...none are 'watertight', though. But those who "crash" a party bear at least SOME similarities in attitude and 'spirit' with those who "crash" a country....and both are sure to cause some negative reaction.

It would be wise to recall that those who "crash" a party are ALSO expected to LEAVE at some point, too. As for the other "crashers"? Good luck with THAT.
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Old 10-09-2009, 05:35 PM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,816,809 times
Reputation: 3028
Quote:
Originally Posted by macmeal View Post
I'm big on analogies....I think they're effective, though of course none are perfect. The "home invaders raiding the fridge" has been used, as you suggest, many times Personally, I think it's a pretty fair analogy. I think there IS a parallel. I think that even "nice" people, at some point, would lose their patience at such 'minor' invasions of their home or property or their hospitality..and when they became 'fed up', I don't think that would mean they were neccessarily hateful, or 'mean', or 'down on people'....just that they had become understandably 'fed up'.

Your conclusions above are probably correct..."hounding" your own family, or your guests....over "who took my three beers" probably WOULD seem petty, stingy, 'trite', and would cause a 'rift' in the family.

But what if your beer disappeared every DAY? What if it wasn't only your guests taking it...but FRIENDS of your guests, whom you didn't invite? What if you gave a big party for 100 guests, and 50 'extras' showed up, DEMANDING to be fed and entertained, and DEMANDING you extend the same hospitality to them, as to your invited guests, and threatening to 'raise Holy Hell' if you tried to get them to go home? Would you get annoyed? Mad? Feel violated? Would your reaction mean you "hated" these people? Would the 'fault' for this unpleasantness lie with YOU...or with your uninvited guests?

Analogies are good...none are 'watertight', though. But those who "crash" a party bear at least SOME similarities in attitude and 'spirit' with those who "crash" a country....and both are sure to cause some negative reaction.

It would be wise to recall that those who "crash" a party are ALSO expected to LEAVE at some point, too. As for the other "crashers"? Good luck with THAT.
Very true, and I am certainly one of the “fed ups.”

Why is it so difficult for some to understand the difference between an invited guest and a home invader? As the mother of a teenager, I ‘share’ my food on a regular basis. However, there’s a huge difference between giving food to my son’s friends and having someone enter my house uninvited and demand I provide them with food. Likewise, there is a huge difference between consensual sex and rape.
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Old 10-09-2009, 05:39 PM
 
Location: San Diego
32,802 posts, read 30,052,880 times
Reputation: 17694
Quote:
Originally Posted by briefstop View Post
Thanks for the calm approach.

I don't think Hispanics are currently being profiled or being mistreated.
I'm against the proposal that such a thing becomes acceptable and encouraged.

I don't think we can compare illegals to flashers. A flasher is a random crime. Being here illegally is more specific. There are other ways to catch them. I think it's a much bigger issue than catching and deporting, but if I were to think that way, there's other ways.

I'm not sure if I like the flasher analogy. If someones going around flashing women, how far will it go if we tell police to go around looking for a male? Not very. No, you get specific information.

Apart from being unfair and offensive to have police questioning every short, dark, indigenous/mestizo looking person about their citizenship, it wouldn't be effective. If we didn't care about a large segment of Americans and how they feel about that, if we had unlimited resources to literally screen all Latinos in this country to filter out legals and citizens, which aren't an insignificant number, then sure, it makes sense in a very pragmatic way. But at what costs?

Again, should we just find out the crimes most associated with ethnic groups, and create task forces for each crime to shake down that community? I'm sure it'd be effect, but at what cost? Is it worth it? Would the ends justify the means? I don't think so.

A lot of people like to use the analogy of illegals being home invaders and stealing from the fridge. When we have food in the fridge that has been getting nibbled on, someone took a slice of pizza, someone took a drink of my gallon of juice, someone took a a couple beers from my 36 pack, do I go rudely interrogate the people I invited to stay for the weekend, and even my own brothers? Yeah, it would make sense to, but in reality, since they didn't, it would come off as extremely rude, and might even cause a rift in the family.
Ok, taking beer? In this case that is COMPLETELY crossing the line
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Old 10-09-2009, 05:41 PM
 
Location: Mesa, Az
21,148 posts, read 36,628,664 times
Reputation: 3785
Quote:
Originally Posted by briefstop View Post
That's not the case, so it's easy to say that. It means nothing. Your crowd doesn't even like being taxed, you think they would really be cool with it if it was them to be profiled and detained because of their appearance on a regular basis.

But the American people will not accept this, it's not going to happen. So you need to get over it.
No, briefstop, having been profiled by LE in the past due to my appearance: it did not hurt me and it will certainly not hurt others.
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Old 10-09-2009, 06:15 PM
 
Location: Mesa, Az
21,148 posts, read 36,628,664 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by briefstop View Post
What were the circumstances for you to feel so complacent with being profiled by the police for a crime you didn't commit?
Does it matter? I committed no crime; just my appearance gave LE probable cause.
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Old 10-09-2009, 06:18 PM
 
48,519 posts, read 81,048,183 times
Reputation: 17978
Quote:
Originally Posted by total_genius View Post
Do you think that US Citizens who are held and questions during immigration workplace raids should be able to sue for false imprisonment?

Read this article and give your feedback.

Citizens sue after detentions, immigration raids - USATODAY.com
Anyoine can sue. But the poice only need reasonable suspion to stop and check. On thsi they were lioikely acting on probale cause which is much great than that. False imprisonment is a criminal charge anyway not civil.Waste of time.People sue all the time for many thigns but few actaully ever get to court and the governamnt has lawyers to handle just this type case.
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Old 10-09-2009, 09:30 PM
 
3,071 posts, read 7,446,659 times
Reputation: 1619
I gree. You see when someone commits a crime the police have a right to ask for the IDs of anyone who is there with them...The criminals are the ones who brought the cops there you know.If you are with them you need to show your ID..thats how it works.
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Old 10-09-2009, 09:44 PM
 
Location: Mesa, Az
21,148 posts, read 36,628,664 times
Reputation: 3785
Quote:
Originally Posted by briefstop View Post
Uh, yeah, it does.
Are you Black or Latino and were profiled because of your race?
Did your car match a description?
Did you match a specific individual wanted in a crime?

It matters.
Simple. Because being a young Nordic White male with longish hair 30 years ago was probable cause to be stopped/contacted.

Just like White guys today with the skinhead look can expect to be profiled--------even if they are 100% innocent.
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Old 10-09-2009, 10:37 PM
 
Location: California
706 posts, read 796,367 times
Reputation: 179
Quote:
Originally Posted by briefstop View Post
The way you dress and fashion yourself makes more sense than how you were born to look.

I have no problem profiling people with GANG tattoos, gang style clothing, bald heads, looking like their in the act of something suspicious.
That is much different than someone's ethnicity.

I still don't buy that white males were being pulled over and questioned for walking down the street or driving around and treated like criminals by police. There has to be more to the story.

But using your example, I have no problem "profiling" a white guy with a shaved head wearing black boots with swastikas all over him.
I don't see a white guy walking down the street and assume Nazi, though.

In 1967 or so, I and a few friends were headed to a nightclub called "The Trip", owned by Barry Mcguire (eve of destruction") located next to the Playboy Club on Sunset Blvd. Just prior to turning left on SB, we were stopped and thrown against the wall of the PB...facing 4 drawn police weapons....an elderly man had been robbed at gunpoint....we matched the description....white and long hair. The police explained the situation and released us....no problem....

it happens.....to everyone.....
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Old 10-09-2009, 11:14 PM
 
Location: California
706 posts, read 796,367 times
Reputation: 179
Considering that the predominant ethnicity of the Sunset Strip environs at that time was Anglo,I find it understandable that we were stopped.

I was treated as a suspect,( because of long hair and bell bottoms) and released.

pretty simple to me....I wasn't a victim here.....

jmo
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