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Old 06-27-2008, 04:57 PM
 
Location: California
3,172 posts, read 5,994,570 times
Reputation: 332

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Quote:
Originally Posted by macmeal View Post
Once again, not to insult you, but you're making my point again. Like you, I respect people until they give me a reason not to. Like you, when they lose my respect, they no longer have it.
This is heading dangerously off topic, and for some reason getting more personal.

How did it go from the American people treating it's Hispanic citizens along with all immigrants with respect, to one of my "homies" losing Azbears respect by harming him, to me challenging your point?

You guys say respect needs to be earned. I believe hate needs to be earned. Respect should be a given.
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Old 06-27-2008, 05:29 PM
 
8,973 posts, read 14,612,395 times
Reputation: 2983
Quote:
Originally Posted by amc760 View Post
This is heading dangerously off topic, and for some reason getting more personal.

How did it go from the American people treating it's Hispanic citizens along with all immigrants with respect, to one of my "homies" losing Azbears respect by harming him, to me challenging your point?

You guys say respect needs to be earned. I believe hate needs to be earned. Respect should be a given.

It's getting more 'heated', I suppose, because no argument seems to penetrate that wall of denial. When you see racism and disrespect "under every rock", you'll probably find it. If not, then you can just 'suspect' it. But for some reason, you seem oblivious the the simple fact that impatience and frustration with illegal immigration does NOT equate with "disrespect for Hispanic citizens".

*I can dislike bullies, but still like most men..

*I can dislike sluts, yet still like most women...

*I can dislike Nazis, but still like most Germans..

*I can dislike diced bananas and horseradish, yet still like to eat..

*I can dislike the Mafia, yet still like most Italians..

*And I can DISLIKE ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION, and what it's doing to our society, and the fact we can't even DISCUSS it in a civil manner anymore..yet at the same time like Hispanics. I've even admitted to 'liking' many individual illegals in past years. I can DO that, while still 'disliking' the current mess, and insisting that it's GOT to stop.

I had a beloved uncle who had a serious drinking problem. I loved him dearly..yet I HATE drunk driving, as a 'concept'...and when he got pulled over, I never thought it was because society didn't "like" my uncle....He got pulled over for what he was DOING...
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Old 06-27-2008, 05:41 PM
 
Location: California
3,172 posts, read 5,994,570 times
Reputation: 332
Quote:
Originally Posted by macmeal View Post
It's getting more 'heated', I suppose, because no argument seems to penetrate that wall of denial. When you see racism and disrespect "under every rock", you'll probably find it. If not, then you can just 'suspect' it. But for some reason, you seem oblivious the the simple fact that impatience and frustration with illegal immigration does NOT equate with "disrespect for Hispanic citizens".

*I can dislike bullies, but still like most men..

*I can dislike sluts, yet still like most women...

*I can dislike Nazis, but still like most Germans..

*I can dislike diced bananas and horseradish, yet still like to eat..

*I can dislike the Mafia, yet still like most Italians..

*And I can DISLIKE ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION, and what it's doing to our society, and the fact we can't even DISCUSS it in a civil manner anymore..yet at the same time like Hispanics. I've even admitted to 'liking' many individual illegals in past years. I can DO that, while still 'disliking' the current mess, and insisting that it's GOT to stop.

I had a beloved uncle who had a serious drinking problem. I loved him dearly..yet I HATE drunk driving, as a 'concept'...and when he got pulled over, I never thought it was because society didn't "like" my uncle....He got pulled over for what he was DOING...
But my argument, while not necessarily directed at you, is that many people are not realizing that distinction.
This topic is supposed to be about illegal immigration, but how many times has the discussion turned to mexicans, and not just the illegal ones?

How many times have we heard abou drug cartels, the "machismo" of Mexicans, the habits of Mexicans, American gangs, prison gangs, Mexican identity, white supremacy of Mexicans ,etc etc?

And how many times have I called you or Azbear racist?
I address the racism that does exist in our country, but I don't run around calling individuals racists, unless they act like one.
I even have to write a disclaimer on any post that has to do with race.
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Old 06-27-2008, 05:50 PM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,809,199 times
Reputation: 3028
Quote:
Originally Posted by amc760 View Post
What is the big deal with calling illegal immigrants immigrants? thats what they are! immigrants who have crossed illegally!
Immigrants are immigrants!

Thats about as neutral a term as it gets.

It acknowledges them as having come illegally, but yet it doesnt go out of its way to put any more negative connotations that you guys seem to want.

Its okay if you want to call them invaders, menace, criminals, etc etc. Thats your opinion, and if you want them to make them sound as evil as possible to justify your fears and negative feelings towards them, then go ahead.

But they are immigrants
.
Funny, you jumped right on my post in response to Ned, while ignoring Ned’s comments to yours. Hmm…..

I have a prior commitment; therefore, I’ll let the United States Citizenship and Immigration Services (USCIS) clarify this for you. Oh, before you try to twist the last sentence in your favor; it is still within the context of “lawful” residence.

Illegal alien
A noncitizen who has not been lawfully admitted to the United States or who has violated the terms of his/her lawful admission.

Immigrant
A noncitizen who has been granted lawful permanent residence in the United States and is issued a Form I-551 (green card). An immigrant may either obtain an immigrant visa at a consular office overseas or, if a visa number is immediately available, adjust status at an INS office in the United States. Also refers to an individual who has moved to a new country with the intent of remaining there for 1 year or more. (See also Lawful permanent resident alien.)

http://www.uscis.gov/files/article/8%20Glossary.pdf (broken link)


BTW, you appear to be somewhat out of sorts today. Perhaps you need this…..
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Old 06-27-2008, 05:55 PM
 
Location: Mesa, Az
21,148 posts, read 36,615,542 times
Reputation: 3785
Benica and macmeal: the tide is clearly turning against illegal immigrants and their enablers at an increasing rate------hence desperation disguised as machismo, etc.
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Old 06-27-2008, 06:20 PM
 
8,973 posts, read 14,612,395 times
Reputation: 2983
Quote:
Originally Posted by amc760 View Post

How many times have we heard abou drug cartels, the "machismo" of Mexicans, the habits of Mexicans, American gangs, prison gangs, Mexican identity, white supremacy of Mexicans ,etc etc?
.
It HAS gotten out in left field, yes. But the frequent references to the specifics of "Mexicans" are mostly being used to illustrate "why these illegals do what they do, and think what they think". Every effort has been made to assure you that US citizens, such as yourself, are not being 'lumped in' with foreign illegals. THeir illegal actions are NOT blamed on you. The connection you insist on with THEM (a cultural bond) is NOT reason enough to 'lay the blame on you' for what THEY do. That blame is in your mind.

The illegal 'line jumping' of the immigrants, and the astounding hypocrisy shown by the Mexican government in all this...is NOT the fault of the "Hispanic American citizen"....as I've tried to say, in at LEAST three hundred different ways.
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Old 06-28-2008, 10:41 AM
 
Location: Arizona
2,065 posts, read 3,173,806 times
Reputation: 391
Quote:
Originally Posted by NibblingNed View Post
Why, yes, I did said Google search. Did you go past the first page? As retrieved on 26 June, 2008, links to the actual article (from Harper's) are for subscribers only. Did you, GuyPinestra, read the original article (i.e. are you a Harper's subscriber)?

When I clicked on the #1 URL (from above retrieval date) at The Church of Morris Dees - November, 2000 - Harper's Magazine, from something called "American Patrol" (not a likely objective resource) I can trace the "Original URL" to http://www.texasls.org/articles/reading_room/church_of_morris_dees.htm (broken link), which is a "The file your looking for could not be found." at the Texas League of the South. Whether the Texas League of the South is any sort of, y'know, neo-confederate or racist website is certainly up to anyone that wants to check their website. That is, anyone can Google the League of the South and make up his or her own mind about the LOS viewpoint. He or she might pay particular attention to the FAQ's if she or he cares to look into the LOS viewpoint, as you suggest.

I wholeheartedly agree with GuyPinestra. You should Google "The Church of Morris Dees". You should look into those providing information (like Harper's, American Patrol or the LOS).

What's with the nsm88 site on page 1 of that Google search, GuyPinestra? Did you want to make a moral comparison between the SPLC and their critics at the NSM site you recommended?
Don't try to paint me with that racist brush simply because the article appears on the American Patrol website, or any OTHER website, for that matter.

Don't try to claim that I 'recommended' any OTHER websites, either, as that just goes to show how disingenuous you can be.

The original article appeared in Harper's magazine. Have you found some information that discredits that publication or the author of said article? If not, you're simply trying to discredit it AND me by trying to associate it with some neo-Nazi, racist agenda.

I don't appreciate it, and if this wasn't a moderated website I'd tell you EXACTLY what I think of your underhanded tactics.

Have a nice day...
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Old 06-28-2008, 02:42 PM
 
Location: California
3,172 posts, read 5,994,570 times
Reputation: 332
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
Funny, you jumped right on my post in response to Ned, while ignoring Ned’s comments to yours. Hmm…..

I have a prior commitment; therefore, I’ll let the United States Citizenship and Immigration Services (USCIS) clarify this for you. Oh, before you try to twist the last sentence in your favor; it is still within the context of “lawful” residence.

Illegal alien
A noncitizen who has not been lawfully admitted to the United States or who has violated the terms of his/her lawful admission.

Immigrant
A noncitizen who has been granted lawful permanent residence in the United States and is issued a Form I-551 (green card). An immigrant may either obtain an immigrant visa at a consular office overseas or, if a visa number is immediately available, adjust status at an INS office in the United States. Also refers to an individual who has moved to a new country with the intent of remaining there for 1 year or more. (See also Lawful permanent resident alien.)

http://www.uscis.gov/files/article/8%20Glossary.pdf (broken link)


BTW, you appear to be somewhat out of sorts today. Perhaps you need this…..
What about Ned's comment to me me? I didnt respond because he seemed to think I was trying to justify white supremacist groups crossing paths with anti-immigrant groups when I clearly don't.
I did watch the video, and it seems like he didnt understand what I meant by my comments.
Whats your point in pointing that out?
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Old 06-28-2008, 02:59 PM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,809,199 times
Reputation: 3028
Quote:
Originally Posted by amc760 View Post
What about Ned's comment to me me? I didnt respond because he seemed to think I was trying to justify white supremacist groups crossing paths with anti-immigrant groups when I clearly don't.
I did watch the video, and it seems like he didnt understand what I meant by my comments.
Whats your point in pointing that out?
Actually nothing. It’s just that I would have expected you to have first responded to a direct response to your post, prior to attacking mine.
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Old 06-28-2008, 03:02 PM
 
Location: California
3,172 posts, read 5,994,570 times
Reputation: 332
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
Actually nothing. It’s just that I would have expected you to have first responded to a direct response to your post, prior to attacking mine.
Too lazy to explain that he got my intention way wrong.
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