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Old 01-30-2010, 08:49 PM
 
Location: ...at a 3AM epiphany
2,206 posts, read 2,141,372 times
Reputation: 453

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Quote:
Originally Posted by expect View Post
i dont come close to saying it. i know the United States offers a myriad of things missing in other countries, perhaps the most attractive of all for immigrants are the chances for upward mobility and opportunity. why else would people from all over the world come here? nothing ive said or nothing u posted above contradicts.
Then let them stand in line and enter legally, if they qualify. If the come here illegally, they should go to jail and then be deported back to where they came from.
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Old 01-30-2010, 08:52 PM
 
1,807 posts, read 2,796,911 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagonut View Post
Nope! Mexico's immigration policies are not unfair just a little harsher and they work because they enforce them. That is why we should adopt them. All the policies by other countries that you mentioned are not fair and not moral. We don't want to adopt them. Good try with your apples and oranges though.
oh ok not unfair right.. "just a little harsher"
i suppose you'd support indefinite detention then... i mean why bother sending them back, we can just hold them here. this includes a 2 year sentence for the first offense, and a 10 year sentence for the 2nd.
and you'd also support beating the detained men and women too.. i mean it could serve to "send a message" right? a good old fashioned thrashing, yea a good idea. our immigration officials can also learn from Mexico's, maybe learn a few lessons in corruption and extortion. how to steal their money and throw them in jail. or how to rape illegal immigrant women, or how to cram 24 detainees into a single cell and deprive them of food. because this is definitely fair and moral right?

yes we can learn a lot from the wonderful, responsible, forward looking Mexican government, because it isnt one of the most corrupt governments in the world or human rights violators.

what a joke.
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Old 01-30-2010, 09:39 PM
 
14,307 posts, read 11,165,382 times
Reputation: 2130
Quote:
Originally Posted by expect View Post
oh ok not unfair right.. "just a little harsher"
i suppose you'd support indefinite detention then... i mean why bother sending them back, we can just hold them here. this includes a 2 year sentence for the first offense, and a 10 year sentence for the 2nd.
and you'd also support beating the detained men and women too.. i mean it could serve to "send a message" right? a good old fashioned thrashing, yea a good idea. our immigration officials can also learn from Mexico's, maybe learn a few lessons in corruption and extortion. how to steal their money and throw them in jail. or how to rape illegal immigrant women, or how to cram 24 detainees into a single cell and deprive them of food. because this is definitely fair and moral right?

yes we can learn a lot from the wonderful, responsible, forward looking Mexican government, because it isnt one of the most corrupt governments in the world or human rights violators.

what a joke.
Do you often make negative assumption about others rather than asking what their views are? I am for quick deportations, got that? No, I do not think anyone deserves a beating, got that? No, no one deserves to be raped or have their money stolen, got that? No, I am not in favor of any inhumane treatment, got that?

What we need to mirror Mexico on in regards to their immigration policies is zero tolerance of illegal immigration and to secure our borders.
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Old 01-30-2010, 09:40 PM
 
Location: ...at a 3AM epiphany
2,206 posts, read 2,141,372 times
Reputation: 453
Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagonut View Post
Do you often make negative assumption about others rather than asking what their views are? I am for quick deportations, got that? No, I do not think anyone deserves a beating, got that? No, no one deserves to be raped or have their money stolen, got that? No, I am not in favor of any inhumane treatment, got that?

What we need to mirror Mexico on in regards to their immigration policies is zero tolerance of illegal immigration and to secure our borders.



Yes!
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Old 01-30-2010, 10:14 PM
 
8,973 posts, read 14,632,169 times
Reputation: 2983
Quote:
Originally Posted by expect View Post
i dont come close to saying it. i know the United States offers a myriad of things missing in other countries, perhaps the most attractive of all for immigrants are the chances for upward mobility and opportunity. why else would people from all over the world come here? nothing ive said or nothing u posted above contradicts.
OK, so apparently you agree with my statement that we 'ought to pick and choose....let in the good, and keep out the bad'.

Yet only today, you and I argued about 'What is an American supposed to act like', and 'What is assimilation'?, etc., etc....So how do we "let in the good", unless we can define 'good'? How do we "keep out the bad", without angering or annoying someone? How do we 'welcome all immigrants', yet admit only those who are 'beneficial' to our society? Who defines 'good' and 'bad'?

More to the point, is a guy with a wife, 7 kids, two elderly parents, a 4th grade education, and no knowledge of English, nor any interest in American culture, "good" for our society? (He may be a 'good person'; that's not the question. The question is, is he a 'good' addition to our society? What if we have a million others, just like him? Good additions to our society? If so, why? If not, why not?...and who says so?)...

Nothing against such folks, you understand...we have a HUGE number of them here, already. Most of them were born here; they're 'ours'. The hypothetical guy I'm taking about was NOT born here...he's a foreigner, applying to 'get in', from elsewhere. The question is, do we let him in? How many? What do we do if he gets 'No' for an answer, but comes in ANYWAY? Do we let him stay? What if there's a MILLION of him? Five million? Twenty million? What do we do, and how do we do it, without making someone angry, either way we go?
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Old 01-30-2010, 10:16 PM
 
Location: Mesa, Az
21,148 posts, read 36,669,573 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagonut View Post
Do you often make negative assumption about others rather than asking what their views are? I am for quick deportations, got that? No, I do not think anyone deserves a beating, got that? No, no one deserves to be raped or have their money stolen, got that? No, I am not in favor of any inhumane treatment, got that?

What we need to mirror Mexico on in regards to their immigration policies is zero tolerance of illegal immigration and to secure our borders.
You summed it up in a nutshell.

Hell: put illegals in detention camps; if they are good enough for illegals in Australia-----------they are acceptable here.
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Old 01-30-2010, 11:05 PM
 
1,807 posts, read 2,796,911 times
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Originally Posted by macmeal View Post
OK, so apparently you agree with my statement that we 'ought to pick and choose....let in the good, and keep out the bad'.

Yet only today, you and I argued about 'What is an American supposed to act like', and 'What is assimilation'?, etc., etc....So how do we "let in the good", unless we can define 'good'? How do we "keep out the bad", without angering or annoying someone? How do we 'welcome all immigrants', yet admit only those who are 'beneficial' to our society? Who defines 'good' and 'bad'?
its more along the lines of things like having an education, not having a criminal record, being tied to extremist groups and so forth. you keep the bad (terrorist, suspected terrorists, ppl w/criminal records, ppl with little to no technical skills etc) out, and the good you let in. it has nothing to do with what they look/dress/act like.

Quote:
Originally Posted by macmeal View Post
More to the point, is a guy with a wife, 7 kids, two elderly parents, a 4th grade education, and no knowledge of English, nor any interest in American culture, "good" for our society? (He may be a 'good person'; that's not the question. The question is, is he a 'good' addition to our society? What if we have a million others, just like him? Good additions to our society? If so, why? If not, why not?...and who says so?)...
if they are coming here legally, they first have to apply for themselves first. because he/she gets residence doesnt mean the rest of their family gets in also. they also have to petition for the rest of their families if they wish to bring them, which is a long and expensive process. in my opinion, if someone goes through that process and passes, why not? if they followed the law, then the immigration system worked. otherwise what is the point of having that system in place?

illegals are a completely different issue. i do not believe we should keep anyone here who is caught living here illegally.
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Old 01-30-2010, 11:09 PM
 
1,807 posts, read 2,796,911 times
Reputation: 1228
Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagonut View Post
Do you often make negative assumption about others rather than asking what their views are? I am for quick deportations, got that? No, I do not think anyone deserves a beating, got that? No, no one deserves to be raped or have their money stolen, got that? No, I am not in favor of any inhumane treatment, got that?

What we need to mirror Mexico on in regards to their immigration policies is zero tolerance of illegal immigration and to secure our borders
.
its called sarcasm. and it works to show that there is nothing to be learned from any mexican system. nothing about their immigration policy works, even without the extracurricular activities carried out by the police and immigration agents, immigrants are still getting in illegally.

the bolded part is especially funny, the last part in particular about "securing our borders." shows how much you know about mexico and their immigration issue, which is nothing.
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Old 01-30-2010, 11:49 PM
 
8,973 posts, read 14,632,169 times
Reputation: 2983
Quote:
Originally Posted by expect View Post
its more along the lines of things like having an education, not having a criminal record, being tied to extremist groups and so forth. you keep the bad (terrorist, suspected terrorists, ppl w/criminal records, ppl with little to no technical skills etc) out, and the good you let in. it has nothing to do with what they look/dress/act like.


illegals are a completely different issue. i do not believe we should keep anyone here who is caught living here illegally.
You want to keep out people with criminal records? OK...but what about a 35-year old man with a 15-year old wife? He's not a criminal at home...is he a criminal here? What if he has TWO 15-year old wives?

You want to keep out people who are terrorists, or who are SUSPECTED terrorists, but you aren't concerned about 'How they act'? How do you make that decision? What if they're not terrorists, but simply 'martyrs'? Is that OK?

You want to keep out people with no technical skills? What if they're hungry? What if they're needy? How do you decide?

Not attempting to 'trip you up' here...I'm only making a point that we DO need to think about how people "act"..and how they "live"...and what their values are..BEFORE they get here. After all, it's a big BIG world...and one man's "bad" is another man's "good". You can't do ANYTHING unless you have a set of parameters....and as soon as you set parameters, you let SOME people in, but you keep OTHER people out....and when you do that, you're making evaluations...what's acceptable vs what's not.
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Old 01-31-2010, 08:10 AM
 
14,307 posts, read 11,165,382 times
Reputation: 2130
Quote:
Originally Posted by macmeal View Post
OK, so apparently you agree with my statement that we 'ought to pick and choose....let in the good, and keep out the bad'.

Yet only today, you and I argued about 'What is an American supposed to act like', and 'What is assimilation'?, etc., etc....So how do we "let in the good", unless we can define 'good'? How do we "keep out the bad", without angering or annoying someone? How do we 'welcome all immigrants', yet admit only those who are 'beneficial' to our society? Who defines 'good' and 'bad'?

More to the point, is a guy with a wife, 7 kids, two elderly parents, a 4th grade education, and no knowledge of English, nor any interest in American culture, "good" for our society? (He may be a 'good person'; that's not the question. The question is, is he a 'good' addition to our society? What if we have a million others, just like him? Good additions to our society? If so, why? If not, why not?...and who says so?)...

Nothing against such folks, you understand...we have a HUGE number of them here, already. Most of them were born here; they're 'ours'. The hypothetical guy I'm taking about was NOT born here...he's a foreigner, applying to 'get in', from elsewhere. The question is, do we let him in? How many? What do we do if he gets 'No' for an answer, but comes in ANYWAY? Do we let him stay? What if there's a MILLION of him? Five million? Twenty million? What do we do, and how do we do it, without making someone angry, either way we go?
Well stated as usual, macmeal!
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