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Old 01-31-2010, 07:45 AM
 
Location: Mesa, Az
21,148 posts, read 36,622,458 times
Reputation: 3785

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Quote:
Originally Posted by expect View Post
its called sarcasm. and it works to show that there is nothing to be learned from any mexican system. nothing about their immigration policy works, even without the extracurricular activities carried out by the police and immigration agents, immigrants are still getting in illegally.

the bolded part is especially funny, the last part in particular about "securing our borders." shows how much you know about mexico and their immigration issue, which is nothing.
This I do know: Mexico in many regards is a colossal failure-----------otherwise why is ca. 5-10% of its population living here in the USA illegally? What is especially offensive to me is that Mx is not a poor nation compared to 90% of the world. Even its per capita income is above $14K a year.
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Old 01-31-2010, 09:47 AM
 
Location: Lake Norman, North Carolina
1,213 posts, read 1,397,570 times
Reputation: 392
Quote:
Originally Posted by macmeal View Post
OK, so apparently you agree with my statement that we 'ought to pick and choose....let in the good, and keep out the bad'.

Yet only today, you and I argued about 'What is an American supposed to act like', and 'What is assimilation'?, etc., etc....So how do we "let in the good", unless we can define 'good'? How do we "keep out the bad", without angering or annoying someone? How do we 'welcome all immigrants', yet admit only those who are 'beneficial' to our society? Who defines 'good' and 'bad'?

More to the point, is a guy with a wife, 7 kids, two elderly parents, a 4th grade education, and no knowledge of English, nor any interest in American culture, "good" for our society? (He may be a 'good person'; that's not the question. The question is, is he a 'good' addition to our society? What if we have a million others, just like him? Good additions to our society? If so, why? If not, why not?...and who says so?)...

Nothing against such folks, you understand...we have a HUGE number of them here, already. Most of them were born here; they're 'ours'. The hypothetical guy I'm taking about was NOT born here...he's a foreigner, applying to 'get in', from elsewhere. The question is, do we let him in? How many? What do we do if he gets 'No' for an answer, but comes in ANYWAY? Do we let him stay? What if there's a MILLION of him? Five million? Twenty million? What do we do, and how do we do it, without making someone angry, either way we go?
Knowing that Teddy Chappaquiddick Kennedy changed the immigration laws to legally allow more 3rd worlders in who could be more easily converted to welfare dependent future democratic voters, gives us some insight into whether that non English speaking guy with a wife, 7 kids, 2 elderly parents, no knowledge or interest in American culture, and having only a 4th grade education is a 'good addition to our society'. The answer obviously is hell no! Allowing poverty stricken immigrants in who would be malleable to democratic welfare and thus would become welfare dependent future democratic voters was purely a political decision, not in the best interest of the US, just the best interest of the democratic party. It's going to require voting out left wing amnesty democratic politicians and electing conservatives before we could ever hope to go a merit system on immigration which requires each and every prospective immigrant to meet requirements deemed to be good for America and not just good for future democratic voters. Now if the above poverty stricken immigrants try to come in illegally, future democratic voters or not, they need to be quickly deported.
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Old 01-31-2010, 11:08 AM
 
Location: Los Angeles
77 posts, read 88,145 times
Reputation: 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by ArizonaBear View Post
This I do know: Mexico in many regards is a colossal failure-----------otherwise why is ca. 5-10% of its population living here in the USA illegally? What is especially offensive to me is that Mx is not a poor nation compared to 90% of the world. Even its per capita income is above $14K a year.
but the poor cities are close to the border. If Detroit or Appalalachia bordered with Mexico city more Americans would live there.
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Old 01-31-2010, 11:37 AM
 
Location: Mesa, Az
21,148 posts, read 36,622,458 times
Reputation: 3785
Quote:
Originally Posted by Latino & Proud View Post
but the poor cities are close to the border. If Detroit or Appalalachia bordered with Mexico city more Americans would live there.
Actually; the poorest parts of Mexico are closer to Guatemala than the USA.

In fact: quite a few of the old time people who live close to the US border are not poor--------unlike the newer arrivals from points south now living in shantytowns.
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Old 01-31-2010, 03:29 PM
 
1,807 posts, read 2,790,445 times
Reputation: 1228
Quote:
Originally Posted by macmeal View Post
You want to keep out people with criminal records? OK...but what about a 35-year old man with a 15-year old wife? He's not a criminal at home...is he a criminal here? What if he has TWO 15-year old wives?

You want to keep out people who are terrorists, or who are SUSPECTED terrorists, but you aren't concerned about 'How they act'? How do you make that decision? What if they're not terrorists, but simply 'martyrs'? Is that OK?

You want to keep out people with no technical skills? What if they're hungry? What if they're needy? How do you decide?

Not attempting to 'trip you up' here...I'm only making a point that we DO need to think about how people "act"..and how they "live"...and what their values are..BEFORE they get here. After all, it's a big BIG world...and one man's "bad" is another man's "good". You can't do ANYTHING unless you have a set of parameters....and as soon as you set parameters, you let SOME people in, but you keep OTHER people out....and when you do that, you're making evaluations...what's acceptable vs what's not.

what "parameters" do you suggest? and what is wrong with what i said (about education, criminal record and so forth)? if someone is "hungry or needy" then they obviously won't have the money necessary for the paperwork that goes into applying for legal residence. or do you think some starving man or woman in some 3rd world country like sudan is going to have the money to file the paperwork, then buy the plane tickets needed to come here? answer: no
i think you're thinking of extreme and more than likely improbable scenarios.. a 35 year old guy with two 15 year old wives right... really? no. the parameters i listed in my previous post suffice in terms of screening values go. there is absolutely no way of knowing how people ACT if they are living in another country, so the best gauge of knowing whether this person will be productive is their education + whether or not they've gotten into trouble in their own country. it is irrational to think that you can screen people in any other way. there are millions and millions of people trying to come here legally. criminal records, education level and i suppose disease are the most important factors. if they come from a "high risk" area, like the middle east, then keeping tabs on them is something that can be done to ensure they aren't up to anything crazy. but for the regular person trying to come here for a better life, say an immigrant from Panama or the Ukraine.. if they are bothering to go thru the legal process, then odds are they aren't going to go through so much trouble just to come here and destroy something.
and lastly, there is no such thing as a "martyr" candidate for residence or citizenship. a martyr, by definition is someone who has already died for A or B cause.
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Old 04-27-2010, 02:22 PM
 
234 posts, read 202,528 times
Reputation: 39
Quote:
Originally Posted by ArizonaBear View Post
This I do know: Mexico in many regards is a colossal failure-----------otherwise why is ca. 5-10% of its population living here in the USA illegally? What is especially offensive to me is that Mx is not a poor nation compared to 90% of the world. Even its per capita income is above $14K a year.
Maybe you consider Mexico a colossal failure due in part becuase it has resisted western culture and capitalism for so long.

Its economic & sociopolitical system has only recently been influenced by the United States going back to NAFTA which has drastically improved and shifted Mexico from a so called 3rd world nation to an emerging market & Industrialized Nation. Mexico is going through growing pains and it's refusal to adopt more mainstream western ideological infulence is where you can see the fail.

Compairing Mexico to the rest of Latin America, Mexico is a shining star. It just depends on what your compairing Mexico to.
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Old 04-27-2010, 02:30 PM
 
14,307 posts, read 11,146,155 times
Reputation: 2130
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rico from East Los View Post
Maybe you consider Mexico a colossal failure due in part becuase it has resisted western culture and capitalism for so long.

Its economic & sociopolitical system has only recently been influenced by the United States going back to NAFTA which has drastically improved and shifted Mexico from a so called 3rd world nation to an emerging market & Industrialized Nation. Mexico is going through growing pains and it's refusal to adopt more mainstream western ideological infulence is where you can see the fail.

Compairing Mexico to the rest of Latin America, Mexico is a shining star. It just depends on what your compairing Mexico to.
And yet their citizens are fleeing that country in droves to come to our "western culture, capitalistic" country.
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Old 04-27-2010, 02:33 PM
 
181 posts, read 274,231 times
Reputation: 170
Quote:
Originally Posted by High Springs Gator View Post
Please offer some proof Mexicans are more honest than Americans.
He didn't say Americans, he said white people.
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Old 04-28-2010, 07:34 PM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,809,199 times
Reputation: 3028
Quote:
Originally Posted by expect View Post
what "parameters" do you suggest? and what is wrong with what i said (about education, criminal record and so forth)? if someone is "hungry or needy" then they obviously won't have the money necessary for the paperwork that goes into applying for legal residence. or do you think some starving man or woman in some 3rd world country like sudan is going to have the money to file the paperwork, then buy the plane tickets needed to come here? answer: noi think you're thinking of extreme and more than likely improbable scenarios.. a 35 year old guy with two 15 year old wives right... really? no. the parameters i listed in my previous post suffice in terms of screening values go. there is absolutely no way of knowing how people ACT if they are living in another country, so the best gauge of knowing whether this person will be productive is their education + whether or not they've gotten into trouble in their own country. it is irrational to think that you can screen people in any other way. there are millions and millions of people trying to come here legally. criminal records, education level and i suppose disease are the most important factors. if they come from a "high risk" area, like the middle east, then keeping tabs on them is something that can be done to ensure they aren't up to anything crazy. but for the regular person trying to come here for a better life, say an immigrant from Panama or the Ukraine.. if they are bothering to go thru the legal process, then odds are they aren't going to go through so much trouble just to come here and destroy something.
and lastly, there is no such thing as a "martyr" candidate for residence or citizenship. a martyr, by definition is someone who has already died for A or B cause.
Why use Sudan as an example? The vast majority of illegal aliens are not Sudanese, they are Mexican. And, if Mexican illegals are too poor to afford immigration fees, why aren’t they also “too poor” to afford to pay a coyote $5,000 to escort them across the border?
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Old 04-28-2010, 08:02 PM
 
11,961 posts, read 12,433,936 times
Reputation: 2772
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rico from East Los View Post
Maybe you consider Mexico a colossal failure due in part becuase it has resisted western culture and capitalism for so long.

Its economic & sociopolitical system has only recently been influenced by the United States going back to NAFTA which has drastically improved and shifted Mexico from a so called 3rd world nation to an emerging market & Industrialized Nation. Mexico is going through growing pains and it's refusal to adopt more mainstream western ideological infulence is where you can see the fail.

Compairing Mexico to the rest of Latin America, Mexico is a shining star. It just depends on what your compairing Mexico to.
Pardon, Mexico has been subsidized by American taxpayers for quite some time. Other nations have joined us in this subsidy/ general assistance as well. I wish Mexico well, root for her success, but in the context of illegal immigration perpetrated upon American soil-- I have no sympathy whatsoever. Those who complain about what assistance has been given or method of delivery... come up with a better plan and enough with the whining.

The reason they can't come up with a better plan is because it cannot account for the pervasive corruption and violence that large populations throughout central and south America have been conditioned to abide. That doesn't mean everyone is crooked, it means that when all attempting to meaningfully participate must consistently suffer from a few bad apples throughout their history, they have less faith in anything resembling social order (not a reference to class assignments, just good order and self discipline within society). Mexican citizens thrive best in mountainous regions away from cities and tourist areas. The tradition of self sufficiency & expressions of healthy community/ culture are preserved well there.

They may come here abiding our laws in our country by knocking on the front door. Clearly there is a problem with the front door and we need to fix that, however, that doesn't justify breaking and entering. The only immigrants that are legitimate in my eyes are the ones who mean to divorce themselves from dysfunction and assimilate with our laws. Illegal aliens are inherently flawed from day one. There is an absence of respect for America. We've left the door wide open for criminals whose only objective is to reap a larger harvest through demographics. Location location location.

Are all illegals criminals? Yes, guilty with an explanation. Other crimes? Lets presume a good deal of them don't commit overt crimes (violence, theft, etc). We can't have honest statistics because deception was afoot day one. The problem even with what anyone would characterize as well intended illegal aliens is that this underground population of 2nd class citizens are inherently incompatible with the American way and American law. Something had to give 30yrs ago and neglecting this problem too long has only exacerbated the problems.
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