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Old 06-29-2008, 02:08 AM
 
Location: California
3,172 posts, read 5,994,570 times
Reputation: 332

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Quote:
Originally Posted by JesusisLord View Post
Yeah no doubt MCCain should focus on Latino voters for sure, especially in Florida, he will need to counter the high black turnout that existed in 2000, when the state was decided by 36 votes. There's no doubt A.A. will have an incredibly high turnout for an African American candiate. Most of his party has decided to use an enforcement only program, which has turned Latinos off, 2006 elections showed that. But he cannot turn his base off with amnesty language. He has decided to go the safe way, rather than gamble on Latino Voters. We'll see the outcome.
For some reason, I think theres going to be a record turnout for this election. A lot more younger voters too.
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Old 06-29-2008, 02:11 AM
 
Location: California
3,172 posts, read 5,994,570 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
I agree with most of your post. However, I disagree with your assertion that blacks "resent" the growth of the "Hispanic" community. I simply take issue with the fact that "Hispanic" is not actually a race; and the fact that illegal aliens are being included in the stats.
Although Hispanic is not a race, most people see it that way. And anyways, from what I understand, Hispanics have become the largest ethnic minority group, not racial.
I wasn't aware that illegals are counted in those numbers, since it comes from the Census.
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Old 06-29-2008, 09:51 AM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,809,199 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amc760 View Post
Although Hispanic is not a race, most people see it that way. And anyways, from what I understand, Hispanics have become the largest ethnic minority group, not racial.
I wasn't aware that illegals are counted in those numbers, since it comes from the Census.
If I’m not mistaken, the purpose of census data is to primarily account for “racial” populations within this country, rather than merely “ethnic.” Race has a genetic basis; whereas ethnicity equates “cultural” identification. I have several friends from Puerto Rico, Dominican Republic, and Panama who are “racially” Black, yet “ethnically” or “culturally” Hispanic. Likewise, my ex is “racially” White, yet “ethnically” Hispanic; which is precisely the rationale behind census categories such as….Black–Non-Hispanic, Black–Hispanic, White–Non-Hispanic, White–Hispanic; the former being the “race” and the latter being the “ethnicity.”

Given the fact that “Hispanic” is a cultural or ethnic identification with no racial basis, it should not be classified as a “minority” -- nor should “Hispanic” be enumerated as a racial category for population data. I submit there is a hidden agenda; and I suspect “immigration” to be an integral component of said agenda.

Furthermore, illegal aliens are indeed included in the census statistics; which is precisely my issue. They are not “legal” residents of this country, and therefore IMO should not be included. If anything, there should be a separate category for informational purposes, without including these figures in the “count” for general population data. The inclusion of illegal aliens in the “Hispanic” statistics is precisely the basis for the “growth” of Hispanics in this country, and the resultant elevation to #1 “minority” status.

Should the Census Bureau Count Illegal Immigrants? (http://www.coxwashington.com/news/content/reporters/stories/2007/10/24/BC_IMMIG_CENSUS23.html - broken link)

US: Census Won't Deter Immigration Raids - washingtonpost.com

Quote:
The Constitution requires the Census Bureau to count everyone, including illegal immigrants, in the census. The once-a-decade population count is then used to apportion seats in Congress and to appropriate billions of dollars in federal spending each year.
FOXNews.com - Census Bureau Asks That Immigration Raids Halt for 2010 Count - Politics | Republican Party | Democratic Party | Political Spectrum

A state representative has proposed changing this practice.
Proposal to Skip Census Count of Illegal Immigrants : NPR
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Old 06-29-2008, 03:19 PM
 
Location: California
3,172 posts, read 5,994,570 times
Reputation: 332
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
If I’m not mistaken, the purpose of census data is to primarily account for “racial” populations within this country, rather than merely “ethnic.” Race has a genetic basis; whereas ethnicity equates “cultural” identification. I have several friends from Puerto Rico, Dominican Republic, and Panama who are “racially” Black, yet “ethnically” or “culturally” Hispanic. Likewise, my ex is “racially” White, yet “ethnically” Hispanic; which is precisely the rationale behind census categories such as….Black–Non-Hispanic, Black–Hispanic, White–Non-Hispanic, White–Hispanic; the former being the “race” and the latter being the “ethnicity.”

Given the fact that “Hispanic” is a cultural or ethnic identification with no racial basis, it should not be classified as a “minority” -- nor should “Hispanic” be enumerated as a racial category for population data. I submit there is a hidden agenda; and I suspect “immigration” to be an integral component of said agenda.

Furthermore, illegal aliens are indeed included in the census statistics; which is precisely my issue. They are not “legal” residents of this country, and therefore IMO should not be included. If anything, there should be a separate category for informational purposes, without including these figures in the “count” for general population data. The inclusion of illegal aliens in the “Hispanic” statistics is precisely the basis for the “growth” of Hispanics in this country, and the resultant elevation to #1 “minority” status.

Should the Census Bureau Count Illegal Immigrants? (http://www.coxwashington.com/news/content/reporters/stories/2007/10/24/BC_IMMIG_CENSUS23.html - broken link)

US: Census Won't Deter Immigration Raids - washingtonpost.com


FOXNews.com - Census Bureau Asks That Immigration Raids Halt for 2010 Count - Politics | Republican Party | Democratic Party | Political Spectrum

A state representative has proposed changing this practice.
Proposal to Skip Census Count of Illegal Immigrants : NPR
Hispanic had its own little bubble on forms before the immigration issue became the spectacle that it is today.
We are all aware of the different races that come from Hispanic countries, but almost all Hispanics identify themselves as such. There is a Hispanic community with its own interests, its own ties, and with its own issues not including immigration.
We are a distinctive group and we deserve to have a voice in this country.
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Old 06-29-2008, 04:03 PM
 
Location: Mesa, Az
21,148 posts, read 36,615,542 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amc760 View Post
Hispanic had its own little bubble on forms before the immigration issue became the spectacle that it is today.
We are all aware of the different races that come from Hispanic countries, but almost all Hispanics identify themselves as such. There is a Hispanic community with its own interests, its own ties, and with its own issues not including immigration.
We are a distinctive group and we deserve to have a voice in this country.
To any minority (including lower class Whites):

Assimilate or be passed by...........we owe Hispanics (or anybody else based on their heritage) nothing.
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Old 06-29-2008, 04:50 PM
 
8,973 posts, read 14,612,395 times
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Anyone who claims membership in a "distinctive group" will be treated as though he was "distinctive". And distinctive means 'different'. And 'different' means "not like other people".
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Old 06-29-2008, 04:56 PM
 
Location: California
3,172 posts, read 5,994,570 times
Reputation: 332
Quote:
Originally Posted by macmeal View Post
Anyone who claims membership in a "distinctive group" will be treated as though he was "distinctive". And distinctive means 'different'. And 'different' means "not like other people".
Be treated like a distinctive group, and people will claim to be a distinctive group, and they will use it to make demands.
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Old 06-29-2008, 04:58 PM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,809,199 times
Reputation: 3028
Quote:
Originally Posted by amc760 View Post
Hispanic had its own little bubble on forms before the immigration issue became the spectacle that it is today.
We are all aware of the different races that come from Hispanic countries, but almost all Hispanics identify themselves as such. There is a Hispanic community with its own interests, its own ties, and with its own issues not including immigration.
We are a distinctive group and we deserve to have a voice in this country.
I have never stated, nor remotely alluded, that Hispanics should not be entitled to a “voice” in this country. All “legal” citizens of this country are entitled to have their voices heard; and Hispanics are no exception.

However, I take issue with the designation of “Hispanic” to identify vastly diverse racial groups; and to further have that designation receive “special” status. No other group of “immigrants” has received such treatment. Why can’t Mexican immigrants simply be considered Americans of Mexican descent, rather than Hispanic? The same is true for other immigrants from Latin America.

When Italians, Germans, Poles, etc. immigrated to this country they became Americans of Italian, German, Polish descent. They didn’t receive a special label to identify them as being white European; nor is there a census category for White-Non-Italian, White-Non-German, or White-Non-Polish.

Tell me something…..why do you believe white “Hispanics” are the only white ethnic group assigned a separate category and deemed a “minority?” Why not white Italian, German, Polish, French, etc? Aren’t they also “ethnic” groups? Didn’t they also originate from countries with distinct cultures?

Why are white “Hispanics” afforded “protected” status according to civil rights and labor laws, while other white immigrants are not? Why does a white “Hispanic” such as my ex (no offense if you're lurking), whose heritage is French/Italian, qualify for preferential treatment simply by virtue of having been born in Latin America; while others with identical heritage who happen to immigrate from Europe, do not receive such perks? Why the disparity?

I’m sorry, but I simply don’t consider this fair. If they are all Caucasian, why should only those from Latin America, ergo “Hispanic” be treated differently? Perhaps you can enlighten me.
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Old 06-29-2008, 05:02 PM
 
8,973 posts, read 14,612,395 times
Reputation: 2983
Quote:
Originally Posted by amc760 View Post
Be treated like a distinctive group, and people will claim to be a distinctive group, and they will use it to make demands.
Exactly. And when 15 distinctive groups EACH make demands, which each group sees as more important than the demands of the other 14 groups, it's pretty hard to get anything done, even in peacetime, with a robust economy. Add a little 'crisis', or a little 'war', or a little 'natural disaster', and things could get VERY ugly.
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Old 06-29-2008, 05:06 PM
 
Location: Mesa, Az
21,148 posts, read 36,615,542 times
Reputation: 3785
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
I have never stated, nor remotely alluded, that Hispanics should not be entitled to a “voice” in this country. All “legal” citizens of this country are entitled to have their voices heard; and Hispanics are no exception.

However, I take issue with the designation of “Hispanic” to identify vastly diverse racial groups; and to further have that designation receive “special” status. No other group of “immigrants” has received such treatment. Why can’t Mexican immigrants simply be considered Americans of Mexican descent, rather than Hispanic? The same is true for other immigrants from Latin America.

When Italians, Germans, Poles, etc. immigrated to this country they became Americans of Italian, German, Polish descent. They didn’t receive a special label to identify them as being white European; nor is there a census category for White-Non-Italian, White-Non-German, or White-Non-Polish.

Tell me something…..why do you believe white “Hispanics” are the only white ethnic group assigned a separate category and deemed a “minority?” Why not white Italian, German, Polish, French, etc? Aren’t they also “ethnic” groups? Didn’t they also originate from countries with distinct cultures?

Why are white “Hispanics” afforded “protected” status according to civil rights and labor laws, while other white immigrants are not? Why does a white “Hispanic” such as my ex (no offense if you're lurking), whose heritage is French/Italian, qualify for preferential treatment simply by virtue of having been born in Latin America; while others with identical heritage who happen to immigrate from Europe, do not receive such perks? Why the disparity?

I’m sorry, but I simply don’t consider this fair. If they are all Caucasian, why should only those from Latin America, ergo “Hispanic” be treated differently? Perhaps you can enlighten me.
Flip side: an Englishman, Swede, etc. of 'Spanish/Mestizo' heritage is not counted as a Hispanic in the USA......Alfred Molina (English actor) and Jose Gonzalez (Swedish musician) come to mind.
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