Immigration sign causing a major stir in Manassas, VA (Palestinians, Israeli, born)

[AnnaGrrrrrl]

I agree with you Nicolem. I just cannot believe these people are afraid to take the sign down because some other illegal aliens filed suits about unfair housing. Why would you be afraid of someone you can deport in a heartbeat?

[Mach50]

√ First this is not slavery, but it is exploitation, however, the illegals have put themselves in a position to be exploited like slaves, voluntarily. Is it unfair that they come here and are hired, given places to live, cars, mortgages, enroll their kids in school and then be told to leave? I think it is a bit unfair, but it is not slavery, they have been exploited...used.

√ Second, I was wondering when the "Native Americans" aspect of the illegals would come into play. I think this is going to be the hardest to contest as Indigenous Mexicans really do believe they have a right to migrate anywhere in North America, they really believe there are no country lines. If US Native Americans were to vouch for these illegals, there would be a substantial force to be reckoned with.

The new sign, Fernandez said, would feature painted murals and captions depicting the history of American racial injustice. "I really want the community to see what has been done to us people of color these last 500 years," said Fernandez, whose message to the "European Americans" of Manassas considers Latino immigrants to be "Native Americans" with a historical right to live in the United States

[TriMT7]

Sheesh, everyone fancies themselves a Revolutionary political activist these days.

[Mach50]

Originally Posted by TriMT7

Sheesh, everyone fancies themselves a Revolutionary political activist these days.

Was that at me?

Tou Che!?! (joke joke)

[macmeal]

Originally Posted by Mach50

√ First this is not slavery, but it is exploitation, however, the illegals have put themselves in a position to be exploited like slaves, voluntarily. Is it unfair that they come here and are hired, given places to live, cars, mortgages, enroll their kids in school and then be told to leave? I think it is a bit unfair, but it is not slavery, they have been exploited...used.

√ Second, I was wondering when the "Native Americans" aspect of the illegals would come into play. I think this is going to be the hardest to contest as Indigenous Mexicans really do believe they have a right to migrate anywhere in North America, they really believe there are no country lines. If US Native Americans were to vouch for these illegals, there would be a substantial force to be reckoned with.

Everything you say is true...yet it brings up the fact that an arbitrary line has been drawn (as it must be), and that nothing will please everyone, and that anything that's adapted or put in to play, means that something else is going to NOT be adapted.

In this case, you've got two mutually-incompatible 'mindsets'...that of 'ethnic solidarity' and historic 'group rights', as opposed to the newer concept of government and society organized on the basis of law, theoretically benefitting everyone, regardless of ethnicity.

You can't have it both ways. The US happens to be organized along the 'legal' lines mentioned. Other than some small concessions made to Native Americans, officially, the US system just doesn't recognize 'ethnic rights' or 'ethnic privilege'. If it DID, American society would quickly descend into chaos.

I recognize the validity of what you say...however, it must remain just an interesting topic to be discussed. "Ethnic rights" could never be seriously adapted into the US system, without causing total 'meltdown'. PARTICULARLY in view of the fact that most of these "illegals" who se themselves as 'heirs' to all of North America, aren't 100% Indian, anyway....and then, of course, ther NEXT question becomes, "Who said the Indians are a solid, monocultural bloc, ANYWAY?". When you start equating Yaquis, Apaches, Iroquois, and Aztec.....then thow in Cheyenne, Arapaho, Navajo, Mixtec, and Nahuatl..you're making quite a 'stretch' on your own....maybe as big a 'stretch' there, as the 'stretch' that was made when the US was founded. NEITHER 'system' is beyond reproach..BOTH leave a lot of unanswered questions. But one thing is certain....if you use ONE system, the other one won't work.

"Legal rights" or "ethnic rights".....a choice must be made.

[camping!]

Originally Posted by Mach50

√ First this is not slavery, but it is exploitation, however, the illegals have put themselves in a position to be exploited like slaves, voluntarily. Is it unfair that they come here and are hired, given places to live, cars, mortgages, enroll their kids in school and then be told to leave? I think it is a bit unfair, but it is not slavery, they have been exploited...used.

√ Second, I was wondering when the "Native Americans" aspect of the illegals would come into play. I think this is going to be the hardest to contest as Indigenous Mexicans really do believe they have a right to migrate anywhere in North America, they really believe there are no country lines. If US Native Americans were to vouch for these illegals, there would be a substantial force to be reckoned with.

Any ideas on what the Native American perspective is on this? It is my understanding that various tribes are very serious as to how they count enrolled members.......I don't think that they would be pleased to learn they have millions of tribal members with no cultural commonalities demanding to be placed on the rolls. But I could be wrong.....if anyone could share the Native American side of this? Kele perhaps?

[macmeal]

Originally Posted by camping!

Any ideas on what the Native American perspective is on this? It is my understanding that various tribes are very serious as to how they count enrolled members.......I don't think that they would be pleased to learn they have millions of tribal members with no cultural commonalities demanding to be placed on the rolls. But I could be wrong.....if anyone could share the Native American side of this? Kele perhaps?

My wife's a 'native'.....her family has been in California since before it was California. Her parents spoke Spanish in the home, but English everywhere else. She never learned Spanish very well, and often laughs as she asks ME to translate for her. While she has a number of in-laws whose families originated in Mexico, (and I have a few on my side as well) she's never shown the slightest notion of 'seeing these folks' (recent illegals) as any sort of 'relatives'.

Naturally, my wife hates anything like racist slurs. She's occasionally been on the 'receiving end' of a few of these. Yet she sees these as isolated incidents...she enjoys her role as an American, and has zero desire to pursue any 'solidarity' with illegals. American history has always been a hobby of hers, and she's 'dragged' me to many places I'd have been otherwise uninterested in (like Gettysburg).

We've had illegals in our lives for all the 39 years we've been married...most of them nice people. The recent 'nuttiness' on this forum, with all its rancor and ill-feeling, is mostly a product of recent times....illegals USED to be pretty well accepted, by pretty much everyone.

[Mach50]

Originally Posted by macmeal

My wife's a 'native'.....her family has been in California since before it was California. Her parents spoke Spanish in the home, but English everywhere else. She never learned Spanish very well, and often laughs as she asks ME to translate for her. While she has a number of in-laws whose families originated in Mexico, (and I have a few on my side as well) she's never shown the slightest notion of 'seeing these folks' (recent illegals) as any sort of 'relatives'.

Naturally, my wife hates anything like racist slurs. She's occasionally been on the 'receiving end' of a few of these. Yet she sees these as isolated incidents...she enjoys her role as an American, and has zero desire to pursue any 'solidarity' with illegals. American history has always been a hobby of hers, and she's 'dragged' me to many places I'd have been otherwise uninterested in (like Gettysburg).

We've had illegals in our lives for all the 39 years we've been married...most of them nice people. The recent 'nuttiness' on this forum, with all its rancor and ill-feeling, is mostly a product of recent times....illegals USED to be pretty well accepted, by pretty much everyone.

I agree, although I am in my mid-30's I have lived amongst illegals my entire life and I think it is definitely a recent event that they are getting so much bad press...I think 9/11 had a lot to do with it, but also I think the economic status and disdain for our own President has fueled the ill feelings.

To the extent of my knowledge, there was a group of Native Americans, I believe in Texas who were trying to "sponsor" Mexican indigenous illegals as part of their tribe, but I believe that quickly fell apart, not sure why.

If Natives across North America decided to unify we could have a much larger historical problem, than just illegals. I think this will be next major move on the pro-illegal campaign and too a point, a rightful move.

[ArizonaBear]

Originally Posted by Mach50

I agree, although I am in my mid-30's I have lived amongst illegals my entire life and I think it is definitely a recent event that they are getting so much bad press...I think 9/11 had a lot to do with it, but also I think the economic status and disdain for our own President has fueled the ill feelings.

To the extent of my knowledge, there was a group of Native Americans, I believe in Texas who were trying to "sponsor" Mexican indigenous illegals as part of their tribe, but I believe that quickly fell apart, not sure why.

If Natives across North America decided to unify we could have a much larger historical problem, than just illegals. I think this will be next major move on the pro-illegal campaign and too a point, a rightful move.

Factoring in Mexico's crashing birthrate; within a few years, the indigenous population would remain about the same percentage as today-------besides: how much Indian (on a genetic level would a person have to have to claim indigenous?

50% I can understand; but when going much below 30% of the above heritage-------the White/Black component would overrule IMHO.

Back to our Mach50: he would likely miss the cut due to his White father--------although his kids may have at least 25% indigenous 'blood' to count.

[andreabeth]

Originally Posted by ArizonaBear

Factoring in Mexico's crashing birthrate; within a few years, the indigenous population would remain about the same percentage as today-------besides: how much Indian (on a genetic level would a person have to have to claim indigenous?

50% I can understand; but when going much below 30% of the above heritage-------the White/Black component would overrule IMHO.

Back to our Mach50: he would likely miss the cut due to his White father--------although his kids may have at least 25% indigenous 'blood' to count.

What the illegal aliens and the reconquista crowd want is something for nothing. If the US were simply another Third World country along the lines of Uruguay or something, do you think for one second that they would be trying to claim it as their own? I think at one time Mexico owned some of the territory that is now Guatemala. It is interesting that they seem to show zero interest in reclaiming that part of their former empire.