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Old 07-04-2008, 12:47 PM
 
8,973 posts, read 14,612,395 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andreabeth View Post
The illegal aliens place themselves in the position of being in the desert. No American is holding a gun to their head forcing them into inhospitable terrain. If someone drives around the gates that are down at a RR crossing and gets hit by a car, that person has no one to blame except themselves. The illegal aliens need to accept responsibility for the consequences of their poor decision making.
The problem with the water tanks is that a) they may encourage people to try to cross who otherwise would not do so and b) the bottom line is that they allow people who should not be in the US in the first place to continue further into the country. This fact seems to be lost on you. They are in violation of US immigration law. They are not supposed to be in a desert in the US to begin with.
If people want to place these tanks, each tank should have a BP agent sitting next to it. He or she can then give the illegal as much water as they want, some food if they are hungry and send them back to Mexico on the next bus.
I suppose if each tank had a BP agent sitting next to it, that MIGHT be OK...but I better not hear of any Minutemen hanging out around those tanks...they're all RACISTS.....

 
Old 07-04-2008, 12:48 PM
 
Location: Major Metro
1,083 posts, read 2,059,755 times
Reputation: 353
Quote:
Originally Posted by andreabeth View Post
If people want to place these tanks, each tank should have a BP agent sitting next to it. He or she can then give the illegal as much water as they want, some food if they are hungry and send them back to Mexico on the next bus.
Now that sounds like a humane way for handling things. If we know the water tanks are out there, I'm not sure why haven't set them up like like speed traps or DUI checkpoints.
 
Old 07-04-2008, 12:51 PM
 
8,973 posts, read 14,612,395 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by prim2007 View Post
Now that sounds like a humane way for handling things. If we know the water tanks are out there, I'm not sure why haven't set them up like like speed traps or DUI checkpoints.
Hate to spoil your illusions, Prim...but the reason "we" don't do this, is because "we" don't really want to stop the traffic, anyway. If "we" did, we certainly could.

That's the same reason "we" get so upset with the Minutemen...they serve as an embarrassing reminder of all the illegals "we" can't seem to find, and they willingly bring those folks to "our" attention....THanks a LOT, Minutemen, for your %$#@*&% HELP !! (grrrrr )"

("We" in this post, referring to those in positions of power who are profiting greatly from illegal immigration, and its attendant cheap, docile, hungry labor force)...
 
Old 07-04-2008, 02:51 PM
 
3,712 posts, read 5,709,656 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by macmeal View Post
Hate to spoil your illusions, Prim...but the reason "we" don't do this, is because "we" don't really want to stop the traffic, anyway. If "we" did, we certainly could.

That's the same reason "we" get so upset with the Minutemen...they serve as an embarrassing reminder of all the illegals "we" can't seem to find, and they willingly bring those folks to "our" attention....THanks a LOT, Minutemen, for your %$#@*&% HELP !! (grrrrr )"

("We" in this post, referring to those in positions of power who are profiting greatly from illegal immigration, and its attendant cheap, docile, hungry labor force)...
Yes, indeed. It is interesting the way our gov. can't seem to 'find' any illegal aliens, yet if you (Macmeal) underpaid your income tax by $27.13, they would hound you forever and hunt you to the ends of the earth until you PAID UP! It would be an interesting experiment to see how long it would take the IRS to round up 12 million tax scofflaws.

off topic: I was thinking about the hassles of air travel today and I realized how grateful we all should be that Richard Reid tried to light his shoes on fire instead of his jockey shorts. Can you imagine what the security checkpoint lines at our airports would be like?
 
Old 07-04-2008, 04:25 PM
 
8,973 posts, read 14,612,395 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andreabeth View Post
Yes, indeed. It is interesting the way our gov. can't seem to 'find' any illegal aliens, yet if you (Macmeal) underpaid your income tax by $27.13, they would hound you forever and hunt you to the ends of the earth until you PAID UP! It would be an interesting experiment to see how long it would take the IRS to round up 12 million tax scofflaws.

off topic: I was thinking about the hassles of air travel today and I realized how grateful we all should be that Richard Reid tried to light his shoes on fire instead of his jockey shorts. Can you imagine what the security checkpoint lines at our airports would be like?
I'd rather NOT picture that, if you don't mind....Thanks, Richard, wherever you are.
 
Old 07-05-2008, 12:41 AM
 
Location: California
3,172 posts, read 5,994,570 times
Reputation: 332
Quote:
Originally Posted by macmeal View Post
I suppose if each tank had a BP agent sitting next to it, that MIGHT be OK...but I better not hear of any Minutemen hanging out around those tanks...they're all RACISTS.....
I'd trust a Border Patrol agent over a Minuteman any day.
I know you see them as just everyday Americans who are tryign to take action, but I just don't see any good coming from them.

I'd give more respect to a group that is lobbying or pushing politicians to take action. The Minutemen, on the other hand, use tactics such as putting cameras in people's faces, screaming angrily, brandishing firearms on the border, and basically tormenting individual people suspected to be illegal immigrants.

In my opinion, theyre just shy of being a militant group. I won't say its true, because I don't know, but it's been alleged that some of them have fired on people crossing the border.

While not all of them are bad(i hope), their tactics and ideals attract some unsavory people.

The Border Patrol approach what they do as a job, and thats what it should be. People "patrolling" the border out of emotion, rather than duty seems like a recipe for trouble.

And something just seems wrong to me about someone who spends all their freetime dressing in safari clothing and using Revolutionary War analogies for what they are doing.
 
Old 07-05-2008, 09:12 AM
 
8,973 posts, read 14,612,395 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amc760 View Post
I'd trust a Border Patrol agent over a Minuteman any day.
I know you see them as just everyday Americans who are tryign to take action, but I just don't see any good coming from them.

I'd give more respect to a group that is lobbying or pushing politicians to take action. The Minutemen, on the other hand, use tactics such as putting cameras in people's faces, screaming angrily, brandishing firearms on the border, and basically tormenting individual people suspected to be illegal immigrants.

In my opinion, theyre just shy of being a militant group. I won't say its true, because I don't know, but it's been alleged that some of them have fired on people crossing the border.

While not all of them are bad(i hope), their tactics and ideals attract some unsavory people.

The Border Patrol approach what they do as a job, and thats what it should be. People "patrolling" the border out of emotion, rather than duty seems like a recipe for trouble.

And something just seems wrong to me about someone who spends all their freetime dressing in safari clothing and using Revolutionary War analogies for what they are doing.
It's my understanding that The Minutemen are pretty much constantly accompanied by news people, plus members of 'open borders' groups, all of whom are carefully watching for them to do something...anything..out of line. I know when the Minutemen gathered last spring at several points near Nogales, a number of people from Southern Cal. traveled there, too, just to 'watch' them.

Sorry, but I find it utterly impossible to believe a Minuteman could do anything hostile to any illegal, and it wouldn't INSTANTLY be recorded on film. THe media would love to make such a connection. THe fact that they haven't tells me it's probably because there's nothing going on to report.

As far as the 'wackos' showing up to join in the excitement? Wackos show up everywhere. That's what wackos do. In fact I'd guess a few of these REAL hard cases are probably mad at the Minutemen, because they feel the Minutemen are 'wimps'. But wackos are wackos, and any 'event' will draw them out. It'sw my understanding that THe Minutemen are supposed to be unarmed...but in any case, I don't believe they'd be allowed to 'brandish firearms' without INSTANTLY drawing the attention of the authorites. THat's absurd. That would be an water-tight excuse to shut them down, IMHO.

Once again, (and nobody seems to ever comment on this) the Minutemen are admittedly 'taking a stand' on an emotional issue. But the reason they're there, is because the people who are supposed to be doing the job, are not. That's the fact. Let the Border Patrol stop the flow across the border, and the Minutemen would become bored, pack up their lawn chairs, and go home. SO FAR, they haven't become bored, because the BP hasn't stopped the flow.

LASTLY....and here's the BOTTOM bottom line....The Minutemen are basically 'stationary'. They're sitting more-or-less in one spot while they 'do their thing'. Anyone who encounters them has COME TO THEM, after illegally crossing an international border. The minutemen don't 'pursue' anybody, and anyone who wants to, can completely avoid ever seeing a Minuteman...by just staying away from where they are. This holds true even if the Minutemen are evil, homicidal, gun-happy, foaming-at-the-mouth racists....they can STILL be avoided, by anyone who doesn't want to confront them.

I'm not particularly fond of the Chinese People's Secret Police Interrogation Unit, myself. One way to avoid them, is to stay out of China. It's always worked for me. THey don't bother me, and I don't draw their attention.

Last edited by macmeal; 07-05-2008 at 09:34 AM..
 
Old 07-05-2008, 11:08 AM
 
3,712 posts, read 5,709,656 times
Reputation: 1285
Quote:
Originally Posted by amc760 View Post
I'd trust a Border Patrol agent over a Minuteman any day.
I know you see them as just everyday Americans who are tryign to take action, but I just don't see any good coming from them.

I'd give more respect to a group that is lobbying or pushing politicians to take action. The Minutemen, on the other hand, use tactics such as putting cameras in people's faces, screaming angrily, brandishing firearms on the border, and basically tormenting individual people suspected to be illegal immigrants.
I trust you can back up these allegations with reports from reliable sources.

Quote:
In my opinion, theyre just shy of being a militant group. I won't say its true, because I don't know, but it's been alleged that some of them have fired on people crossing the border.
Who alleged this?

Quote:
While not all of them are bad(i hope), their tactics and ideals attract some unsavory people.

The Border Patrol approach what they do as a job, and thats what it should be. People "patrolling" the border out of emotion, rather than duty seems like a recipe for trouble.

And something just seems wrong to me about someone who spends all their freetime dressing in safari clothing and using Revolutionary War analogies for what they are doing.
Unsavory people, huh? I consider people deliberately sneaking into the US in violation of our laws far more unsavory than any Minuteman sitting in a lawn chair and watching the border with binoculars for hours on end could ever be.
The Minutemen watch the border and report suspicious activity to the Border Patrol. The BP may show up and arrest 10 drug mules carrying crack cocaine into the US in backpacks. Do YOU want these people getting into our country? I don't.
The Minutemen observe and report only. They are told not to have any contact with the illegals. If the illegals enter their area, the SOP is to fall back, get out of the illegals way. The goal is for the BP to deal with the illegals, NOT the Minutemen.
Are you opposed to Neighborhood Watch groups? If a neighbor across the street saw a burglar breaking into your home and called the police, would you consider that vigilante activism?
I can think of no reason why illegal aliens should have free access to the US. It has to stop. If the idea that the Minutemen are patrolling a section of the border causes a few of them to stay home, it is well worth the effort.
 
Old 07-05-2008, 11:27 AM
 
8,973 posts, read 14,612,395 times
Reputation: 2983
Quote:
Originally Posted by andreabeth View Post
I trust you can back up these allegations with reports from reliable sources.



Who alleged this?



Unsavory people, huh? I consider people deliberately sneaking into the US in violation of our laws far more unsavory than any Minuteman sitting in a lawn chair and watching the border with binoculars for hours on end could ever be.
The Minutemen watch the border and report suspicious activity to the Border Patrol. The BP may show up and arrest 10 drug mules carrying crack cocaine into the US in backpacks. Do YOU want these people getting into our country? I don't.
The Minutemen observe and report only. They are told not to have any contact with the illegals. If the illegals enter their area, the SOP is to fall back, get out of the illegals way. The goal is for the BP to deal with the illegals, NOT the Minutemen.
Are you opposed to Neighborhood Watch groups? If a neighbor across the street saw a burglar breaking into your home and called the police, would you consider that vigilante activism?
I can think of no reason why illegal aliens should have free access to the US. It has to stop. If the idea that the Minutemen are patrolling a section of the border causes a few of them to stay home, it is well worth the effort.
Good effort...but I'm afraid your message will fall on deaf ears. You make some VERY sound points...(almost a little TOO sound)...but, in the end, your message just isn't what we want to hear. Your response will probably be silence....followed, in a few days, by more "minutemen are racists" statements. That's pretty much been the pattern up to now.
 
Old 07-05-2008, 12:01 PM
 
Location: Mesa, Az
21,148 posts, read 36,615,542 times
Reputation: 3785
Quote:
Originally Posted by macmeal View Post
Good effort...but I'm afraid your message will fall on deaf ears. You make some VERY sound points...(almost a little TOO sound)...but, in the end, your message just isn't what we want to hear. Your response will probably be silence....followed, in a few days, by more "minutemen are racists" statements. That's pretty much been the pattern up to now.
Dying gasps from the pro illegal crowd: they know in their hearts their cause is morally bankrupt-----hence their playing the last card.
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