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Old 07-06-2008, 04:59 PM
 
8,973 posts, read 14,610,630 times
Reputation: 2983

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Quote:
Originally Posted by andreabeth View Post
I can't rep you again or I would. You hit the nail on the head. If the illegal immigrants all came from your ancestral countries or mine, I doubt the most rabid pro-illegals both here and in real life would be particularly concerned about what happened to them.
It ALSO helps in anyone's determination that "illegals aren't really so bad", if one has no personal experience with which to make such a comparison. If one has come of age only in the past decade or so, that person has never personally experienced anything BUT the present out-of-control turmoil.

That, and a steady diet of "We NEED immigrants, as much now as we EVER did, and ANY immigrant is welcome, legal or not...and maybe THIS will help make up for America's racist past", will obviously go a long way in causing someone to view illegals as "no big thing". From THAT person's point of view, it ISN'T.....and neither is American citizenship. It's just one of several 'options'..really, "no big thing" at all.

 
Old 07-06-2008, 05:02 PM
 
Location: Major Metro
1,083 posts, read 2,059,532 times
Reputation: 353
Quote:
Originally Posted by andreabeth View Post
It seems to me that those opposed to illegal immigration expend alot more time and effort providing supporting documentation for our positions than any of you ever have. I will state unequivocally that I have posted more facts that back up whatever I am saying than you have.
Rationalism v. Emotionalism. You can't have a legitimate argument when they are based on such polar opposite concepts. I don't know why I expected anything more than the flippant response from Amc. I have seen debates happen where logic was applied on both sides (i.e. for or against capital punishment) but nope I have yet to see any facts or logic based arguments from supporters of illegal immigration.
 
Old 07-06-2008, 05:07 PM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,807,269 times
Reputation: 3028
Quote:
Originally Posted by prim2007 View Post
Rationalism v. Emotionalism. You can't have a legitimate argument when they are based on such polar opposite concepts. I don't know why I expected anything more than the flippant response from Amc. I have seen debates happen where logic was applied on both sides (i.e. for or against capital punishment) but nope I have yet to see any facts or logic based arguments from supporters of illegal immigration.
That's because there are none. It's precisely why they routinely play the "race card"....they have no substantive argument.
 
Old 07-06-2008, 05:18 PM
 
8,973 posts, read 14,610,630 times
Reputation: 2983
Quote:
Originally Posted by prim2007 View Post
Rationalism v. Emotionalism. You can't have a legitimate argument when they are based on such polar opposite concepts. I don't know why I expected anything more than the flippant response from Amc. I have seen debates happen where logic was applied on both sides (i.e. for or against capital punishment) but nope I have yet to see any facts or logic based arguments from supporters of illegal immigration.
That's because there is no logical support for illegal immigration...none at all. If you carefully check, ALL support for it is from two angles..

(1) The emotional angle that it's "the compassionate thing to do"...or that "we can accomodate them, if we really try"...or that "America is a land opf immigrants", or something of the sort. Sometimes illegals are made to 'look better', by denigrating Americans ("MANY Americans' ancestors arrived here illegally"...."Americans have a high rate of crime on their OWN part"..."If YOU have ever broken the speed limit, then YOU are a lawbreaker yourself"....etc etc etc).


(2) Carefully-contrived "studies" which show that illegals "bring in more benefits than they use"....NONE of which make sense, unless the evidence 'supporting' this is carefully 'sorted' to make it APPEAR like it's "for our benefit' as a society. Nothing is allowed into evidence concerning crime, social costs, disruption, or anything of the like..only evidence that illegals "bring benefits"..(to someone)

No one EVER addresses the corrosive effect that the mere existence of widely-condoned and tolerated illegal activity of ANY kind, has on a society whose very existence demands a very HIGH esteem given to our 'system of laws'..without which, we'd soon cease to exist as a free society. When the "big boys" in power begin habitually ignoring ONE set of laws, obviously more will follow. But this fact is NEVER touched on.

Virtually ALL support for illegal immigration rests on a basis of the need for 'compassion'. The problem is, it's 'compassion' which has allowed 15 to 20 million people to get here ALREADY. But no one looks at THAT as 'compassion'...because they came here to "help US". And therefore, we should THANK them, because they're 'doingt it for US'....and yet we shouldn't STOP the flow of illegals, because that would be 'mean' on our part.

It all gets very complicated.

Last edited by macmeal; 07-06-2008 at 05:27 PM..
 
Old 07-06-2008, 11:26 PM
 
Location: California
3,172 posts, read 5,993,791 times
Reputation: 332
Quote:
Originally Posted by Synopsis View Post
I can call you what you are, and I say that pro-illegal is sufficient because it is true.
Why on Earth are you a moderator of this site?
 
Old 07-06-2008, 11:40 PM
 
Location: California
3,172 posts, read 5,993,791 times
Reputation: 332
Quote:
Originally Posted by GuyPinestra View Post
I believe I contribute plenty, without resorting to platitudes and generalizations. I'd be HAPPY to answer any questions that get aimed my way, and provide the 'documentation' to back up my position, something that you (and your cohorts) seem incapable of doing.

Until then though, let me pose a question for you...

Since you have stated that the flood of illegal aliens has not negatively effected you, at what point would you consider it 'too many'? How many Americans (like myself) do you think should suffer before you would consider doing something (ANYTHING) to stem the tide?
You mean Americans like OURSELVES. Im so tired of people saying how they are using our taxes, ruining our country. Its my taxes and my country too.

I have said countless times that I support falling down on employers who are too cheap to pay fair wages. When people stop wanting to hire illegals, they will stop coming in large numbers.

But what is a flood? I live in Southern California, and I can't even tell you where this flood of illegals are.
I don't see them on the street begging for money. I don't see them looting all the stores.
You don't really see them, because they are too busy working.
And even if you see them, how do you know they are illegal?

Make changes to curb illegal immigration, but forming vigilante groups and such to harass them isn't doing anything. If the ATM's broken, I'm not going to sit in front of it like an idiot on a lawnchair with an army helmet on chanting "USA! USA!" trying to catch everyone getting that money.
Have someone fix it! Tell the bank to take care of it.

But we're not at that point where illegal immigration is destroying our country. Take measures to prevent that from ever happening, but don't freak out like its going on right now!

Are you hungry?
Do you not have a roof over your head?
Is your life really that bad?

I dont understand the incredible anger people feel towards illegal immigrants. It's not even affecting you. At least not more than its affecting me. Its hysteria.
 
Old 07-07-2008, 12:30 AM
 
1,448 posts, read 2,657,730 times
Reputation: 690
Mexico can afford to take care of its poor. We are all led to believe that all of Mexico is backward and poverty stricken. It's a lie. Look at these pics.

Chihuahua, CH - Mexico's coldest city - SkyscraperCity
 
Old 07-07-2008, 01:26 AM
 
Location: Bountiful, Utah
219 posts, read 378,429 times
Reputation: 71
Those are some beautiful pics! I know there are some very nice places in Mexico. How many people go on vacations there every year because it's so nice?
Just like everywhere there are nice places and there are bad places. Looking at those pictures though you'd think the people would want to stay, it's beautiful!
I love how towards the end there is a picture of the Home Depot out there.

AMC, my dad is a OTR truck driver and he is sent to LA a lot, in fact he was just there this week and he sees it. He has to talk to them, drive with them and deal with their ignorant attitudes so I don't know why you can't see it. My dad doesn't even live down there, he is there for maybe 2 days out of the week and he can identify that there is a serious problem there. In fact, he dreads going down there because of what he has to put up with.

Last edited by AnnaGrrrrrl; 07-07-2008 at 01:34 AM.. Reason: Wanted to add something
 
Old 07-07-2008, 02:53 AM
 
1,448 posts, read 2,657,730 times
Reputation: 690
These pictures could be easily be mistaken for some places in Colorado or New Mexico.












 
Old 07-07-2008, 06:58 AM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,807,269 times
Reputation: 3028
Quote:
Originally Posted by amc760 View Post
Why on Earth are you a moderator of this site?
What, moderators aren’t entitled to an opinion? Had Synopsis agreed with you, there wouldn’t be a problem, would there? Have you not visited other forums and read the comments of those moderators? Your attack is mean-spirited, and totally inappropriate.

You can deny it all day, but you are in fact pro-illegal. I really don't know why you refuse to acknowledge it.
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