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Old 07-07-2008, 05:06 PM
 
Location: Maryland
26 posts, read 150,549 times
Reputation: 28

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Quote:
Originally Posted by blacknight04 View Post
Amen to that brother, but be prepared to be flamed.
And the truth is Flaming?? WOW!!!
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Old 07-08-2008, 10:35 PM
 
29 posts, read 151,991 times
Reputation: 26
Smile Time To Face Your Fears...

I was just about getting flattered by the concept of "serious contributor" before I was unloaded on due to my mention of the "R" word....anyways, lets talk about that for a second...

Some major publications some years back called "racism" America's unsolved problem. Admittedly, that dragon has reared its ugly head again in the immigration debate. I actually brought the issue up reluctantly since as one of my responders said, "for the millionth time, an illegal is an illegal is an illegal" which essentially means that one cannot even begin to demand any right in a country when they don't have the basic foundation of legal presence in the first place. Granted, that's a no-brainer....

Now some facts..

-New immigrants are now less skilled and more unlikely to "assimilate" than the wave of the Irish and German families in the 1900s
-Illegals are 19 times more likely to join a gang
-New arrivals have re-introduced a variety of diseases that had since been eradicated.
-Illegals are a drain to public services
-Illegals depress wages by agreeing to work for less than native Americans.

About the first point, unwilling to assimilate; First of all, what is meant by the "American culture" and which race in America has the preeminence of "imposing" their cultural norm? By mere laws of conquest, it is naturally assumed that the race with the largest numbers gets to do that. So to me, when anti-new-arrivals thumb that "our culture" is being supplanted, it is not hard to deduce whose culture they are referring to.....

Second, I sincerely don't see the anti-immigrant proponents fighting for the cultures of the minorities. They don't complain that the new arrivals are distorting the cultural face of the minorities, as if minorities cannot be supplanted as well. It really seems like the call to "protect our culture" is really a call to protect a status quo. Why do you think there are leading syndicated publications and leading newscasters broadcasting that by the year 2050 a certain population segment which is now the majority will be the minority? Why would not the same population semantics affect the other minority groups who are also proud of who they are?
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Old 07-09-2008, 12:04 AM
 
300 posts, read 482,320 times
Reputation: 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimjames3000 View Post
A lot of people who are against amnesty did not quite understand what President Bush was gearing for. There's a big difference between Amnesty and Path-to-citizenship.

Amnesty blankets all illegals as equal and grants them legal status.
Path to citizenship does not lump all immigrants equaly but recognizes the fact that the erroneous stereotype of all immigrants coming from one country, being illiterate and unskilled and unsavvy does not apply to all immigrants.

Path to citizenship recognizes the following:

-there are immigrants who came here legally but something went wrong and they became illegal, nevertheless they contribute to the economy and well-being of America
-there are many immigrants who are even more educated that native Americans
-there are immigrants who are law-abiding, have skills, have assimilitated into the society and because they have stayed here too long, have very little ties with their country of origins.
Letting them stay is amnesty and we don't want criminals here and they are all criminals since the broke the law to even get here and then continue to break any laws they deem necessary to stay here.
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Old 07-09-2008, 12:15 AM
 
29 posts, read 151,991 times
Reputation: 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quirky Cynick View Post
Letting them stay is amnesty and we don't want criminals here and they are all criminals since the broke the law to even get here and then continue to break any laws they deem necessary to stay here.
Do you have practical solutions as opposed to chest -thumping?
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Old 07-09-2008, 12:22 AM
 
Location: Arizona
2,065 posts, read 3,178,106 times
Reputation: 391
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimjames3000 View Post
Do you have practical solutions as opposed to chest -thumping?
I do... ENFORCE THE DAMNED LAWS THAT ARE ALREADY ON THE BOOKS!!!
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Old 07-09-2008, 08:07 AM
 
Location: Mesa, Az
21,148 posts, read 36,673,551 times
Reputation: 3785
Quote:
Originally Posted by GuyPinestra View Post
I do... ENFORCE THE DAMNED LAWS THAT ARE ALREADY ON THE BOOKS!!!
+1

Next question. jimjames3000?
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Old 07-09-2008, 11:41 AM
 
1,861 posts, read 2,971,138 times
Reputation: 559
Line up the buses.
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Old 07-09-2008, 12:08 PM
 
Location: Northern VA (for now)
23,052 posts, read 32,053,608 times
Reputation: 30488
Quote:
Originally Posted by cousinsal View Post
Line up the buses.
Talk to Ray Nagin in that regard.

jimjames3000 i'll try to give a decent solution. We build a fence, find a way to track visa recepients, make e-verify mandatory for anyone who wants to work in the US, severely limit public assistance to illegals, and run a legal status check of everyone who is arrested for a crime. This will encourage self-deportation which is a very economical solution and the US does not have to give much effort.
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Old 07-09-2008, 02:25 PM
 
Location: USA
881 posts, read 1,410,236 times
Reputation: 310
Question Is this OP for real?!?!

Quote:
Originally Posted by jimjames3000 View Post
A lot of people who are against amnesty did not quite understand what President Bush was gearing for. There's a big difference between Amnesty and Path-to-citizenship.

That is like saying robbing a bank is not a crime - that it is wealth re-distribution! Or that is like saying that forcibly raping a person is "unsolicited sex"!

That opening post is the stupidest thing I have heard since I heard Obama want to raise taxes when we have an economic slowdown!

Put the Kool-Aid down and listed for a second:

Amnesty opens up a path-to-citizenship. A Path-to-citizenship for someone who committed a crime of trespassing into the US, working illegally, living here illegally (what ILLEGAL ALIENS do) is an amnesty. An amnesty is a "pardon" for committing crimes.

Therefore, a path-to-citizenship for someone who is illegal is indeed amnesty. There is no path for citizenship for someone who entered into the USA illegally, unless there is an amnesty in place!

Wise up, you Kool-Aid guzzler! Geeesh!
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Old 07-09-2008, 05:16 PM
 
8,973 posts, read 14,633,512 times
Reputation: 2983
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimjames3000 View Post
Second, I sincerely don't see the anti-immigrant proponents fighting for the cultures of the minorities. They don't complain that the new arrivals are distorting the cultural face of the minorities, as if minorities cannot be supplanted as well. It really seems like the call to "protect our culture" is really a call to protect a status quo. Why do you think there are leading syndicated publications and leading newscasters broadcasting that by the year 2050 a certain population segment which is now the majority will be the minority? Why would not the same population semantics affect the other minority groups who are also proud of who they are?
You're probably correct....most anti-immigrant proponents AREN'T 'fighting for the culture of the minorities', as you say. In fact, I don't find this unusual in the least. I can think of very few people anywhere who would be willing to "fight" for the rights of someone else's culture, and at the expense of their own. If you know of such a case, please share it with us.

Here in the US, we HAVE a culture..it's a 'work in progress', but it's all we have. It's an artificial construct, and its membership relies on legal concepts, not on "blood", religion, ethnicity, or race. It's called 'being an American'....and it will either work, or there won't BE a powerful, affluent, united country at all, but rather a sullen collection of mutually-hostile 'tribes'. Bend the story any way you like, but in the end, those are our two choices.

My wife is a case in point. Her "race" is, for the most part, the original race which inhabited North America. Her family has lived in our area for untold centuries...and her 'race' is pretty much an exact match to the 'race' of most of today's illegals.

But her "culture" is 90% the same as mine. She is the product of an American childhood. Her 'ethnicity' is only peripheral to her self-identity as an American. She has many fond memories of her parents and relatives..but she doesn't "need" her culture 'recognized' or 'accomodated'..(in fact, she has ZERO interest in forums like this)...and she'd take great exception to those who'd suggest she ought to 'act' in some way to express her 'ethnic solidarity' with anyone...particularly anyone who's here illegally, which she considers a 'slap' at her, as an American.

Posts like yours, which suggest we're all 'slaves to our genes', and 'products of our pigmentation', are disturbing. If we're all doomed to forever see ourselves as 'separate races', each race having to 'show its loyalty' to its fellow members, then there's little hope for anything other than a VERY violent future (ever hear of Bosnia? Kosovo? The Soviet Union? South Africa?). If we CAN NOT come together into an American culture, (because we have to 'act the way we look'), then you're DARN RIGHT when you state that people are going to be alarmed at this. Who wouldn't be?

I continue to believe assimilation is not only possible, it's absolutely neccessary. If you disagree, then you shouldn't be surprised at those who view the future with serious misgivings.
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