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Old 07-06-2008, 10:34 AM
 
Location: Mesa, Az
21,148 posts, read 36,622,458 times
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Quote:
Brothers Ismael, Luis and Edwin Valeriano are U.S. citizens, but their lives have been upended by the arrest of their father as part of an escalating crackdown on illegal immigrants.

In March, the boys' 38-year-old father, Ismael Valeriano, a single parent from Mexico City, was detained for being in the country illegally after Phoenix police arrested him on a misdemeanor DUI warrant.
Arizona Republic article

That 'father' is a loser------he was here in the USA illegally for 20 years in addition to committing a DUI.

He ain't no daddy IMHO.
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Old 07-06-2008, 10:49 AM
 
8,973 posts, read 14,615,066 times
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ALL arrests...for any violation....separate kids from their parents. That's one reason we try to stay away from those situations in which we might get arrested...because what parents do..(or DON'T do) has a profound effect on the kiddies.

You get arrested, you get taken away from your kids. That's how it works. So don't get arrested.
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Old 07-06-2008, 12:28 PM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,813,362 times
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Originally Posted by macmeal View Post
ALL arrests...for any violation....separate kids from their parents. That's one reason we try to stay away from those situations in which we might get arrested...because what parents do..(or DON'T do) has a profound effect on the kiddies.

You get arrested, you get taken away from your kids. That's how it works. So don't get arrested.
Ditto!!! Apparently we should make exceptions for illegal alien parents. After all, they are only seeking a better life. During workplace raids, they have even "excused" many mothers and pregnant illegals for "humanitarian" reasons. I wonder how the millions of U.S. parents currently incarcerated feel. Many women give birth in prison, and are subsequently separated from their babies. Too bad they aren't considered worthy of the compassion so generously afforded illegal aliens.
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Old 07-07-2008, 01:43 AM
 
Location: Bountiful, Utah
219 posts, read 378,522 times
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They put these articles on the papers to pull on the heartstrings of the readers. In 20 years this guy couldn't have applied for citizenship? I have said this before, you see those guys on America's Most Wanted that commited a crime and then move on with their lives and one day BAM! it catches up with them and they are off to prison. Why should it be any different based on the crime? A crime is a crime and like macmeal said, good parents are careful what they do because it can effect their family. The problem is these people don't think they have commited a crime.
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Old 07-07-2008, 06:19 AM
 
3,859 posts, read 9,172,225 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AnnaGrrrrrl View Post
They put these articles on the papers to pull on the heartstrings of the readers. In 20 years this guy couldn't have applied for citizenship? I have said this before, you see those guys on America's Most Wanted that commited a crime and then move on with their lives and one day BAM! it catches up with them and they are off to prison. Why should it be any different based on the crime? A crime is a crime and like macmeal said, good parents are careful what they do because it can effect their family. The problem is these people don't think they have commited a crime.



I agree but I think it goes beyond where "they don't think they have commited a crime"-it is getting worse. More and more illegals act as though they have a "right" to be here. That they can come here illegally and we Americans and Legal Immigrants should just put up with it because it is what they feel they are entitled to. How dare anyone tell them no? Then you are mean, hateful, whatever the label of the day happens to be. Then there are calls for their "rights". Maybe if illegals demanded rights in their home countries-where ever that may be-their home countries would be a better place to live. What about the rights of American citizens and legal immigrants?
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Old 07-07-2008, 07:09 AM
 
Location: Mesa, Az
21,148 posts, read 36,622,458 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nicolem View Post
[/b]


I agree but I think it goes beyond where "they don't think they have commited a crime"-it is getting worse. More and more illegals act as though they have a "right" to be here. That they can come here illegally and we Americans and Legal Immigrants should just put up with it because it is what they feel they are entitled to. How dare anyone tell them no? Then you are mean, hateful, whatever the label of the day happens to be. Then there are calls for their "rights". Maybe if illegals demanded rights in their home countries-where ever that may be-their home countries would be a better place to live. What about the rights of American citizens and legal immigrants?
And; said scumball tactic is backfiring more and more.
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Old 07-07-2008, 09:15 AM
 
8,973 posts, read 14,615,066 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nicolem View Post
[/b]


I agree but I think it goes beyond where "they don't think they have commited a crime"-it is getting worse. More and more illegals act as though they have a "right" to be here. That they can come here illegally and we Americans and Legal Immigrants should just put up with it because it is what they feel they are entitled to. How dare anyone tell them no? Then you are mean, hateful, whatever the label of the day happens to be. Then there are calls for their "rights". Maybe if illegals demanded rights in their home countries-where ever that may be-their home countries would be a better place to live. What about the rights of American citizens and legal immigrants?
Once again, for the umpteenth time, it's not so much a matter of racism, xenophobia, or anything else, as it is a matter of CULTURE. Culture is EVERYTHING, and it's at the bottom of 90% of today's conflicts around the world..(and I believe the coming years will see wars fought over cultures, more than territory or material goods). Anyone...I repeat ANYONE...who advocates an open-ended, "anything goes" multiculturalism is either hopelessly and profoundly naive..or just plain "nuts".

In the case opf the illegals here in the US, culture once again is the source of conflict. Here in the modern secular "First World", we're taught from childhood to 'take our turn', wait in line, do things 'the legal way', and 'go through the system'. We see 'the system' as fair (because we MADE the system) and we se the law as fair (because we WROTE the laws), and there is a considerable MORAL dimension involved in obeying the law. Those of us who DON'T obey the law suffer society's scorn.

In the "Third World", things are different. THe law is unfair, the system is corrupt, and there's little or no moral imperative in obeying the law. One obeys the law when he MUST...and otherwise ignores it. (One Mexican author some years back, jokingly described the US as "a land where people stop at stop signs, even when no one is looking".)

In the Third World, one "pushes", shouts, and "blusters" for his rights. One's welfare is in the hands of friends and family...and one can expect little support from society at large, which in many ways is regarded asw "the enemy". You take care of yourself, grab what you need, or you get stepped on.

It should then hardly be surprising that to "take" a poor person from the lower strata of a Third World nation..to then put this person into a fast-paced First World society...with NO assimilation, NO legal right to be here, and NO experience with "First World" concepts of 'how things work', having never known a system of laws worth taking seriously, nor a society that's 'on his side', one can pretty well expect (at the very LEAST) a PROFOUND cultural conflict..if not worse. Simply put, these people don't know HOW TO BEHAVE in a First World society....and because they're illegal, there's little chance they'll ever learn at any time soon.

It's not racism, it's nothing more than serious denial of the importance of culture (which many of us would like to deny exists at all). But ask yourself this...how many of "us"..(modern-day Americans) could be suddenly "plopped down" into the middle of China...or Russia...or India....and instantly 'know how to behave'? The answer, of course, is we WOULDN'T. It would take LOTS of time to 'assimilate', to begin to 'find one's way around', and to understand how to relate to the locals. And if we were there illegally, it would probably NEVER happen.

Last edited by macmeal; 07-07-2008 at 09:27 AM..
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Old 07-07-2008, 11:53 AM
 
Location: Bountiful, Utah
219 posts, read 378,522 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by macmeal View Post
It's not racism, it's nothing more than serious denial of the importance of culture (which many of us would like to deny exists at all). But ask yourself this...how many of "us"..(modern-day Americans) could be suddenly "plopped down" into the middle of China...or Russia...or India....and instantly 'know how to behave'? The answer, of course, is we WOULDN'T. It would take LOTS of time to 'assimilate', to begin to 'find one's way around', and to understand how to relate to the locals. And if we were there illegally, it would probably NEVER happen.
Good point

I hope this isn't too off topic, but I was doing some reading (can't remember what book, I have read so many for my paper) but there was a little town out in the midwest that was predominantly white and someone decided that they needed some culture, they started bringing in refugees from a 3rd world country and pretty soon this town's economy went downhill and their welfare partipicpation rate went sky high. They basically ruined this little town, so the government isn't doing much to help, they throw these people in the middle of nowhere and give them welfare thinking that will make everything alright.
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Old 07-07-2008, 12:35 PM
 
608 posts, read 881,125 times
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Originally Posted by AnnaGrrrrrl View Post
Good point

I hope this isn't too off topic, but I was doing some reading (can't remember what book, I have read so many for my paper) but there was a little town out in the midwest that was predominantly white and someone decided that they needed some culture, they started bringing in refugees from a 3rd world country and pretty soon this town's economy went downhill and their welfare partipicpation rate went sky high. They basically ruined this little town, so the government isn't doing much to help, they throw these people in the middle of nowhere and give them welfare thinking that will make everything alright.
So back to Macmeal's comments, you take someone from a "Third World" (actually many prefer developing world) and give, give, give. Maybe they assimilated with the assumption that they should receive, receive, receive. Who is really at fault here? I think we know which culture dominated and yet the town has learned nothing of the culture of the people they brought in. That is if this is a true story.
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Old 07-07-2008, 01:11 PM
 
8,973 posts, read 14,615,066 times
Reputation: 2983
Quote:
Originally Posted by AnnaGrrrrrl View Post
Good point

I hope this isn't too off topic, but I was doing some reading (can't remember what book, I have read so many for my paper) but there was a little town out in the midwest that was predominantly white and someone decided that they needed some culture, they started bringing in refugees from a 3rd world country and pretty soon this town's economy went downhill and their welfare partipicpation rate went sky high. They basically ruined this little town, so the government isn't doing much to help, they throw these people in the middle of nowhere and give them welfare thinking that will make everything alright.
I've heard of cases like this. Nice, sheltered people who think they need more diversity, and set out to find it. Sometimes it works (with a whole lot of patience, 'bending over backward' to get along, and luck)...in other cases, though, such ventures have ended in disasters like the case you've described. Differences in culture, outlook, and expectations can result in hurt feelings, resentment, and suspicion, on BOTH sides. It's always good to 'help the downtrodden'..but it's not ALWAYS a good idea to do so, by inviting them to stay in your home. That MIGHT work out...but it might NOT.

"Diversity", in and of itself, is an entirely neutral term. It means nothing, any more than "change"...or "difference"...or 'inclusiveness". It could be GOOD, or it could be BAD, depending on how it comes about, and how 'diverse' you want to be, and what you're changing FROM, and what you're changing TO...or just what you propose to 'include'.
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