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Old 01-17-2007, 09:48 PM
 
Location: Orange County
354 posts, read 762,274 times
Reputation: 169

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I thought it time to start a thread concerning a logical, economically sound solution for the current illegal immigration situation. And no, responding with "deport them all!!!!!" is neither a logical nor economically sound solution. Consider encompassing solutions that reference border security, healthcare reform, education reform, and the naturalization process.

Let's keep this clean, respectful, and as free from generalizations and bigotry as possible.

 
Old 01-17-2007, 10:07 PM
 
Location: South Bay, California
1,701 posts, read 5,851,431 times
Reputation: 330
What a great thread! I was becoming exhausted from the poison spewed towards illegal immigrants. Their needs to be a guest worker program. I'm not saying it will curb illegal immigration, but at least the United States Government will know whose in the Country and it will better organize the job market. Secondly, I believe people who are caught illegally crossing the border, should have a court hearing. I know it's tough, because of costs and inadequate housing for detainees, but people must know the United States takes crossing the border illegaly very seriously. Money should be spent on upgrading detention facilities. The punishment should serve from a small fine to jail time. Also, those who have expired visas, should be placed in a court of law, because they are just as guilty as people who physically cross the border. Thirdly, Americans need to treat illegal immigrants as human beings, regardless of their status, and not unfairly label them as criminals. We can't deny anyone of anything, just because we are displeased or frustrated with the immigration system. Fourth and finally, people who hire illegal immigrants need to meet a court of law as well.
 
Old 01-17-2007, 10:14 PM
 
Location: Shallow alcove hidden from the telescreen
2,798 posts, read 9,711,103 times
Reputation: 1430
Excellent idea, Amavel.

We have somewhere between 12 and 20 million persons in the U.S. that we don't know anything about. Our Federal Government has failed us miserably in assuring that those who enter the country do so by legal and conventional avenues. Because of this failing on the part of the Feds, it's now a problem for the state governments.

Per the U.S. constitution, states are limited in how they protect themselves. States cannot form a military, for instance, and start patrolling their own borders. That is the job of the Feds. But since the Feds are doing such a lousy job of providing secure borders, people are entering illegally in large numbers. This faces the states with difficulties of dealing with undocumented persons with no legal status. Who are they? Are they sick? Are they criminals? What's their literacy? And so on. These individuals will NEVER be deported because the Federal Government doesn't have enough resources for it. (The Feds couldn't keep them from entering legally in the first place!)

So what's a state to do? Can’t stop them from coming in -- that's the job of the Feds. Can't deport them -- that, too, is the job of the Feds. Yet the states have a constitutional responsibility to the people within its borders. But the states are caught between "a rock and a hard place." What now?

Last edited by Winston Smith; 01-17-2007 at 10:35 PM..
 
Old 01-17-2007, 10:40 PM
 
1,398 posts, read 6,022,162 times
Reputation: 1788
Well, here's what NOT to do: label your city a "sanctuary city" and prevent the Police force from ever ascertaining legal status of apprehended criminals with "Special Order 40," as has Los Angeles to its shame on both counts. Therefore my city remains a magnet to the criminally inclined illegal, which incubates the gang problem exponentially. Gang violence has grown 40% in my part of L.A., despite overall reduction of other crimes throughout So. Cal.

Cre8 has presented a good overview to obstacles. Dusesean does not consider people who choose to break our Federal law to be criminals, unlike the rest of the judiciary of our own country. And I will have to endure the constant vandalising of my home, and literally being spit on by complete strangers from another land hissing "c----a" (bad word in Spanish) when I walk by in my own country, with the privilege of my being over-taxed to pay for their goodies from the government, which I do not receive.

Here's a suggestion: have the apologists for illegals read a very sane, calm, scholarly and personal, non-propaganda, non-hysterical-rhetoric book by a university professor outlining the problem and its consequences, in "Mexifornia."
 
Old 01-18-2007, 12:02 AM
 
919 posts, read 1,668,859 times
Reputation: 478
If you think that people here illegally or undocumented are NOT breaking the law and shouldnot be deported, you are part of the problem. employers who hire them are part of the problem and should be fined big time. I do not want to reform a thing, medical, education or other to afford them. If they were all gone tomorrow, this country will survive, period.I want MY country back, and dont give me that bs it was somebodys before. this is the US and thats the way it is. theres no grey areas or alternative views. get out of my country! make the politicians do what they are elected to do.
 
Old 01-18-2007, 12:33 AM
 
Location: Orange County
354 posts, read 762,274 times
Reputation: 169
How exactly do we go about getting them out of your country? Do police officers start knocking on doors 'looking' for illegal aliens? Do we begin to use random traffic stops or even resort to racial profiling?

We understand that illegal immigration is a problem.. everyone can and should agree on that. The problem is that of the 300 million Americans complaining about it, no one has publicized a fitting solution.
 
Old 01-18-2007, 12:33 AM
 
Location: Shallow alcove hidden from the telescreen
2,798 posts, read 9,711,103 times
Reputation: 1430
Default Serious solutions only

Quote:
Originally Posted by mark6052 View Post
If you think that people here illegally or undocumented are NOT breaking the law and shouldnot be deported, you are part of the problem. ... If they were all gone tomorrow, this country will survive.... I want MY country back...make the politicians do what they are elected to do.
No one said it's not against the law. The problem is that the resources to evict undocumented immigrants do not exist. It won't happen no matter how much any of us wish it. We need another plan. What's next? Serious solutions only -- read Amavel's original request for this thread!

I would even argue that politicians ARE doing what they were elected to do. On the state level, politicians are trying to find workable policies -- on a limited budget and with restricted legal authority -- for a near impossible situation. Think about it! Knee-jerk reactions are easy, require no thought. But this problem of illegal immigration requires more than that. Now back to the drawing board. Try harder.

Last edited by Winston Smith; 01-18-2007 at 01:02 AM..
 
Old 01-18-2007, 07:36 AM
 
Location: Princeton, New Jersey
481 posts, read 809,342 times
Reputation: 753
Default Since when...?

Quote:
Originally Posted by dusesean1986 View Post
Thirdly, Americans need to treat illegal immigrants as human beings, regardless of their status, and not unfairly label them as criminals. We can't deny anyone of anything, just because we are displeased or frustrated with the immigration system.
Since when is it UNFAIR to label ILLEGAL aliens as criminals?
il·le·gal /ɪˈligəl/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[i-lee-guhl] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–adjective 1. forbidden by law or statute.

Ok, so now we know that the meaning of illegal is to be forbidden by law. Now let's look at the definition of criminal:
crim·i·nal /ˈkrɪmənl/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[krim-uh-nl] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–adjective 1. of the nature of or involving crime.

Ok... so finally, what is crime?

crime (krīm) Pronunciation Key
n.
An act committed or omitted in violation of a law

Therefore, if you are illegal: have done something that is against the law, then you have committed a crime: an act against the law. Therefore, you are a criminal: in violation of the law.

But you know, I see what you're saying about calling them illegal. It's techinically incorrect. From now on I'll be calling them criminal aliens!

And just for fun, let's look up the correct term: alien.
al·ien /ˈeɪlyən, ˈeɪliən/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[eyl-yuhn, ey-lee-uhn] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun 1. a resident born in or belonging to another country who has not acquired citizenship by naturalization (distinguished from citizen).


Add on the adjective of illegal and you get the full description: a reident born in or belonging to another nation who does not have citizenship and has arrived here against the law!

And if you think these poor little illegal "immigrants" are just innocent bystanders and we're being too harsh, check out this video of a border state pro-legalization protest. They don't look harmless to me!


http://youtube.com/watch?v=6iMuwv5nr40

There's another one that I can't find at the moment because I need to go to class. But it shows an antii-legalization protester walking to his groups area dragging the Mexican flag on the ground. The pro-legalization side harasses him, steps on the flag, calls him racist, and needs police intervention so the guy could keep walking. Since when is it illegal or racist to drag the Mexican flag on the ground? We can do the same to the American flag if we wanted to. And if these illegals want to be here so bad then why are they protesting it? They should be loving our flag, not theirs. Our flag should be their flag if they really want to be in the US.

I'll see if I can find that vid later.
 
Old 01-18-2007, 08:04 AM
 
Location: South Bay, California
1,701 posts, read 5,851,431 times
Reputation: 330
To label an illegal immigrant solely as a criminal is not right. If we do that, we should call every U.S. Citizen who breaks the law "a criminal." Not to mention, I think your blowing this way out of context. Not to be offensive, I don't need Princeton definitions, this is common sense. Many of these illegal immigrants I've spoken with, only come to the United States to help their family with financial issues. They seem to feel it's ok to cross the border. I think if you made a few dollars a day in Mexico, you might decide to come the United States as well. Your ignorance is leaving you close minded to the compassionate and fiscal reasons of why people choose to cross the United States-Mexico border. Do not respond to me, I think illegal immigration is ok, because I don't. But, from the perspective of an illegal immigrant, their are some who feel it's ok to cross to get money for them and/or their family.
 
Old 01-18-2007, 08:18 AM
 
Location: Colorado
10,017 posts, read 16,702,450 times
Reputation: 2086
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiru View Post
Since when is it UNFAIR to label ILLEGAL aliens as criminals?
il·le·gal /ɪˈligəl/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[i-lee-guhl] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–adjective 1. forbidden by law or statute.

Ok, so now we know that the meaning of illegal is to be forbidden by law. Now let's look at the definition of criminal:
crim·i·nal /ˈkrɪmənl/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[krim-uh-nl] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–adjective 1. of the nature of or involving crime.

Ok... so finally, what is crime?

crime (krīm) Pronunciation Key
n.
An act committed or omitted in violation of a law

Therefore, if you are illegal: have done something that is against the law, then you have committed a crime: an act against the law. Therefore, you are a criminal: in violation of the law.

But you know, I see what you're saying about calling them illegal. It's techinically incorrect. From now on I'll be calling them criminal aliens!

And just for fun, let's look up the correct term: alien.
al·ien /ˈeɪlyən, ˈeɪliən/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[eyl-yuhn, ey-lee-uhn] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun 1. a resident born in or belonging to another country who has not acquired citizenship by naturalization (distinguished from citizen).


Add on the adjective of illegal and you get the full description: a reident born in or belonging to another nation who does not have citizenship and has arrived here against the law!

And if you think these poor little illegal "immigrants" are just innocent bystanders and we're being too harsh, check out this video of a border state pro-legalization protest. They don't look harmless to me!


http://youtube.com/watch?v=6iMuwv5nr40

There's another one that I can't find at the moment because I need to go to class. But it shows an antii-legalization protester walking to his groups area dragging the Mexican flag on the ground. The pro-legalization side harasses him, steps on the flag, calls him racist, and needs police intervention so the guy could keep walking. Since when is it illegal or racist to drag the Mexican flag on the ground? We can do the same to the American flag if we wanted to. And if these illegals want to be here so bad then why are they protesting it? They should be loving our flag, not theirs. Our flag should be their flag if they really want to be in the US.

I'll see if I can find that vid later.


Dont even bother, they will never see the real issues. Just the oh poor them issue. it really pisses me off!!! What about the Americans that are going bankrupt due to medical bills? We are not offered these free services, we cant just walk away from the bills. Like the above poster said, they think it is "OK", yea they do they think it is OK to use us ,our money and have NO respect for us and our families, and have No punishment for the crimes they commit, like No car insurance, no drivers license, or fraud for using false paper work not to mention many more. I guess if my family was hungry and I robbed a store or house for food it would be justified. Good to know, because that is basically what they are doing, robbing us.
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