U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies > Illegal Immigration
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 09-29-2009, 04:31 PM
 
Location: San Diego
32,823 posts, read 30,083,197 times
Reputation: 17698

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by that1guy View Post
What would happen is that many communities would suffer a massive loss in it's consumer base, thus less taxable income going towards services. Some companies may go out of business, simply due to lack of interest to work in said fields (janitorial for example).
The people that would be leaving are some of the biggest users and abusers of our social service network. I bet not only would it be a push but the amount of taxes NEEDED would be far less to sustain it.



Schools would be less crowded, however, some schools would close due to lack of funding (going back to loss of a tax base in some lower income communities). Some areas are already doing this as the recession has cause many people to move or go back to renting and it has shown that many of the schools scheduled to be built weren't actually needed at all.

Crime may increase, or decrease, depending on how things are handled. In certain jurisdictions, the loss of people would mean less crime (since less people=less crime). In others, the lack of funding may mean more crime. Generally, lower income communities will be hit hardest and worst. I'd say imo that it would go down, crime = poverty, remove the poverty crime be default should go down.

I was going to talk about farming, but I really don't know if anything will be affected. I can see that people may not be interested in picking fruit or lettuce. However, I don't know if prices will go up (ways to obtain workers), the same (if wages are good enough, will this mean openings for a group that felt "shunned"?) or down (less demand with the same supply). I personally think that it could be an admixture of initially up (simply lack of workers), then same (legal immigrants coming via work visa, maybe).

Again this is all hypothetical...
I'd be ok with an increase of people with work visas for picking fruit. So long as they can't access out social service network.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 09-29-2009, 04:52 PM
 
Location: Where the sun always shines
1,868 posts, read 2,419,874 times
Reputation: 3376
Quote:
Originally Posted by Digital_Duck View Post
you are worried about taxes being spent? wait for UHC ...

What do you propose? DEPORTATION of all illegals? bet it would cost a LOT in taxes to pay that bill!

It's gone too far ... deporting is no longer a viable solution at all!

So .... who here (besides me) has a solution? Complaining about it won't fix it!

unless this is JUST ANOTHER typical tears in the beer forum session!
This is what a poster in another thread said that they once did. He took his truck to the regular illegal hangout spot, told them he had work for them, loaded 7 on board, drove over every bump in the road that he could find, and then guess what.....yes, he dropped them off at the INS building and made INS actually do some work. After a couple of times I guess word got out and other illegals left that area. The was the best civilian plan Ive heard to date. So im calling on all of those with truck to rev em up and start the movement
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-29-2009, 05:00 PM
 
3,536 posts, read 5,081,161 times
Reputation: 822
The people that would be leaving are some of the biggest users and abusers of our social service network. I bet not only would it be a push but the amount of taxes NEEDED would be far less to sustain it.

In many poorer communities, a larger percentage of tax revenue (sales tax) comes from illegal immigrants. Without money in the city coffers, many communities would go under. Thus, larger disparity between rich cities and poor cities. Effectively sending away your tax base will lead to economic suicide.

Some areas are already doing this as the recession has cause many people to move or go back to renting and it has shown that many of the schools scheduled to be built weren't actually needed at all.

The effect would be more pronounced in said communities.

I'd say imo that it would go down, crime = poverty, remove the poverty crime be default should go down.

Not always the case... In general poorer communities have more crime. However, what is interesting is that crime has decreased in South Los Angeles as immigrants moved into this community. An economic revival of sorts has happened thanks in part to immigration in general (many of them illegal immigrants). It goes back to the consumer tax base. Also crime is linked to lack of community resources. Communities that have good police/resident rapport and outreach programs are more likely to have less crime than communities with poor police/resident rapport and lack of services (youth services, after school programs, drug rehabilitation clinics, homeless shelters...).

I'd be ok with an increase of people with work visas for picking fruit. So long as they can't access out social service network.

Why not? If they are working and contributing to society, I see no logical reason to deny those with a visa services...
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-30-2009, 09:30 AM
 
Location: San Diego
32,823 posts, read 30,083,197 times
Reputation: 17698
Quote:
Originally Posted by that1guy View Post
The people that would be leaving are some of the biggest users and abusers of our social service network. I bet not only would it be a push but the amount of taxes NEEDED would be far less to sustain it.

In many poorer communities, a larger percentage of tax revenue (sales tax) comes from illegal immigrants. Without money in the city coffers, many communities would go under. Thus, larger disparity between rich cities and poor cities. Effectively sending away your tax base will lead to economic suicide.

Some areas are already doing this as the recession has cause many people to move or go back to renting and it has shown that many of the schools scheduled to be built weren't actually needed at all.

The effect would be more pronounced in said communities.

I'd say imo that it would go down, crime = poverty, remove the poverty crime be default should go down.

Not always the case... In general poorer communities have more crime. However, what is interesting is that crime has decreased in South Los Angeles as immigrants moved into this community. An economic revival of sorts has happened thanks in part to immigration in general (many of them illegal immigrants). It goes back to the consumer tax base. Also crime is linked to lack of community resources. Communities that have good police/resident rapport and outreach programs are more likely to have less crime than communities with poor police/resident rapport and lack of services (youth services, after school programs, drug rehabilitation clinics, homeless shelters...).

I'd be ok with an increase of people with work visas for picking fruit. So long as they can't access out social service network.

Why not? If they are working and contributing to society, I see no logical reason to deny those with a visa services...
If we can ensure that they are having taxes deducted then I would be ok with it. Just to clear that up. If we can ensure they are sponsored and go by the code set for visas.
How do we ensure they don't decide to overstay? Half of the Illegal Immigrants here today came here by doing just that.

As far as services for poor areas, that is a hard call as you would basically have to rob other areas of their tax base to support the programs you mention. I would support these services for people here legally even to the point it used taxes from out of the district. If those here Illegally were removed the taxes needed to support the remaining Citizens would drop a great deal.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-30-2009, 10:36 AM
 
3,536 posts, read 5,081,161 times
Reputation: 822
If we can ensure that they are having taxes deducted then I would be ok with it. Just to clear that up. If we can ensure they are sponsored and go by the code set for visas.
How do we ensure they don't decide to overstay? Half of the Illegal Immigrants here today came here by doing just that.

That is fair enough. To ensure they don't overstay, I'd say that random visits to the work site. Thus, if they overstay, the employer (sponsor) pay a fine to keep them current. After all, the employer is providing the justification to overstay. If they get fired or quit, try the home site. In this case, they are no longer in contract with the employer and the justification falls outside the realm of the sponsor, thus they pay. Something along those lines...A case manager system would have to be set up (each manager with multiple clients). If they are enrolled in an university obtaining a bachelors or higher, then a student visa would be in effect (if they overstay and provide proof of enrollment, a smaller processing fee could be used to get a student visa and amnesty track maybe). A system that rewards good behaviors (working, learning).

As far as services for poor areas, that is a hard call as you would basically have to rob other areas of their tax base to support the programs you mention. I would support these services for people here legally even to the point it used taxes from out of the district. If those here Illegally were removed the taxes needed to support the remaining Citizens would drop a great deal.

You don't have to rob areas of their tax base to support these programs. Think about it this way. In Santa Barbara (home to Montecito, the nation's most expensive stretch of real-estate), many programs aid the poor (there is a large homeless population and a large illegal immigrant population there). Many were started by college students and community members. College students, high school students, and seniors...could help as low paid or no paid volunteers. Colleges and cities could set up an agreement that those in teaching programs could have an internship at an afterschool program for credit...or small stipend. Programs need not be very costly, just effective. Raising taxes on the ultra-rich is not bad idea. The income gap has increased, meaning the rich are getting richer. I'm not advocating taking all their money. Nor am I saying that being rich is a bad thing (some of my friends are pretty well off). I'm saying that leveling the field a bit is not a bad thing.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-30-2009, 10:51 AM
 
Location: in area code 919 & from 716
928 posts, read 1,203,542 times
Reputation: 453
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1AngryTaxPayer View Post
If we can ensure that they are having taxes deducted then I would be ok with it. Just to clear that up. If we can ensure they are sponsored and go by the code set for visas.
How do we ensure they don't decide to overstay? Half of the Illegal Immigrants here today came here by doing just that.

As far as services for poor areas, that is a hard call as you would basically have to rob other areas of their tax base to support the programs you mention. I would support these services for people here legally even to the point it used taxes from out of the district. If those here Illegally were removed the taxes needed to support the remaining Citizens would drop a great deal.
YOU SAY: If we can ensure that they are having taxes deducted ...
Back when I was younger I knew some illegals who were using other peoples ID - that in itself was drawing taxes off their pay ... which they could NOT get a return from.
YOU SAY: How do we ensure they don't decide to overstay? Half of the Illegal Immigrants here today came here by doing just that.
I have no documentation to verify your claim - however; every illegal I have ever known were not over extended visa illegals.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-20-2011, 09:40 PM
 
1 posts, read 1,176 times
Reputation: 11
if you gave the illeagles to jan 1 2012 to liqudate their assets and return to mexico or if their caught after jan 1 2012 everthing they have will be confiscated and sold to pay the us back watch how many will volintary to leave the us with out a fight love to see some congresman with balls enought to try it
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-21-2011, 11:44 AM
 
76 posts, read 70,372 times
Reputation: 53
easy, I can always speak English to describe my order instead of using hand signs.... everything else will follow as other has mentioned.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-21-2011, 03:25 PM
 
3,071 posts, read 7,451,775 times
Reputation: 1619
answer= many millions of HARD WORKING TAX PAYING CITIZENS WOULD THEN BE ABLE TO FIND WORK...
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-11-2011, 06:27 PM
 
385 posts, read 614,182 times
Reputation: 125
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nativechief View Post
answer= many millions of HARD WORKING TAX PAYING CITIZENS WOULD THEN BE ABLE TO FIND WORK...
Yeah, they would be paid min wage for crappy jobs :P

I honestly feel the only way to bring back jobs, is boycotting big business and forcing them to bring back QUALITY jobs

Ask Nike to open a factory here, since we made them billionares they could at least help us a little.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies > Illegal Immigration
Similar Threads
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2018, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top