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Old 07-10-2008, 11:55 PM
 
8,973 posts, read 14,629,517 times
Reputation: 2983

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I'm not touching this one, except to use it as a point in my continuing effort to illustrate that there's really NO SUCH THING as multiculturalism, in the sense that a great number of people sincerely believe that "all cutures are equal and equivalent; none is better than another, none is worse, and no one can judge anyone else" This is absurd, it's foolish, and nobody really thinks this way, and this thread is an example.

What a collection of cultures REALLY is, is not a variety of lifestyles that each person thinks are 'equivalent'...but a variety of cultures in which each person thinks his is BEST. That's human nature, and that's why multiculturalism can't work.

If "my" culture is different from "yours", then it stands to reason that I'm going to see "my way" as better than "your way". (After all, if I thought 'your way' was better, I'd adapt it as my way.) Meanwhile, YOU are going to see 'your way' as preferable to 'my way'....and you're going to act accordingly.

Cultures are NOT equal, they are NOT truly compatible in their 'core issues', and they can exist side-by-side ONLY when we're 'on our best behavior'. When things 'get rough', and there is a conflict between cultures, the 'other guy' will ALWAYS get the blame..just like on this thread. Not because of race, not because of ethnicity, but because of culture, and all that it entails. What's "OK" in one culture, isn't OK in another.....on almost ANY level of society. Put as simply as possible, PEOPLE IN DIFFERING CULTURES SIMPLY DO NOT "ACT" LIKE EACH OTHER....and this is the source of endless conflict, from petty annoyance, to misunderstandings, and even violence.

Multiculturalism is fun, at Disneyland...or on opposite sides of an ocean, or a continent. But in close proximity, in day-to-day living, multiculturalism's results are pretty much like this thread...and many times, that's not very nice, I'm afraid.
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Old 07-10-2008, 11:59 PM
 
Location: California
3,172 posts, read 6,002,291 times
Reputation: 332
Quote:
Originally Posted by macmeal View Post
I'm not touching this one, except to use it as a point in my continuing effort to illustrate that there's really NO SUCH THING as multiculturalism, in the sense that a great number of people sincerely believe that "all cutures are equal and equivalent; none is better than another, none is worse, and no one can judge anyone else" This is absurd, it's foolish, and nobody really thinks this way, and this thread is an example.

What a collection of cultures REALLY is, is not a variety of lifestyles that each person thinks are 'equivalent'...but a variety of cultures in which each person thinks his is BEST. That's human nature, and that's why multiculturalism can't work.

If "my" culture is different from "yours", then it stands to reason that I'm going to see "my way" as better than "your way". (After all, if I thought 'your way' was better, I'd adapt it as my way.) Meanwhile, YOU are going to see 'your way' as preferable to 'my way'....and you're going to act accordingly.

Cultures are NOT equal, they are NOT truly compatible in their 'core issues', and they can exist side-by-side ONLY when we're 'on our best behavior'. When things 'get rough', and there is a conflict between cultures, the 'other guy' will ALWAYS get the blame..just like on this thread. Not because of race, not because of ethnicity, but because of culture, and all that it entails. What's "OK" in one culture, isn't OK in another.....on almost ANY level of society. Put as simply as possible, PEOPLE IN DIFFERING CULTURES SIMPLY DO NOT "ACT" LIKE EACH OTHER....and this is the source of endless conflict, from petty annoyance, to misunderstandings, and even violence.

Multiculturalism is fun, at Disneyland...or on opposite sides of an ocean, or a continent. But in close proximity, in day-to-day living, multiculturalism's results are pretty much like this thread...and many times, that's not very nice, I'm afraid.
It is not part of Mexican culture to rape children. I'm sorry, I can't even understand people not speaking out against this post. It's ridiculous.

The author of the original article also doesn't believe in multiculturalism, that is why he has to make up crap like this, and is against IMMIGRATION, not illegal immigration, but IMMIGRATION.

Multiculturalism isn't the problem, ignorance is.
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Old 07-11-2008, 12:01 AM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,830,020 times
Reputation: 3028
Quote:
Originally Posted by amc760 View Post
Why are you playing the race card for?
Even though I haven't said anyting to show any bad feelings towards the Black community(wasn't I the one calling for Black-Brown unity which you seemed to be against?) no doubt people will have more sympathy(real?)for that, instead of the many things you have said about Latinos/Mexicans that are similar if not worse.

Oh, by the way, at the end of this article:


I thought it was just illegals people were against?

It's funny how throughout the article, the victims are the white AND the black people(what about the legal latinos??)..the poor citizens being terrorized by the Mexican menace.
You speak a lot about Obama "pandering" the Latino vote, and NCLR "pandering" Latino support.
Have you ever considered how the anti-illegal/immigrant crowd might be pandering for your support?
AMC, for the most part I have enjoyed debating these issues with you, notwithstanding your incessant accusations. I have tried my best to explain my position, and I have denied being anti-Mexican/Hispanic ad nauseam.

Your comments today left no room for doubt in my mind. If you believe black people are only unemployed due to a lack of desire to work, you are certainly entitled to your opinion. However, as a black person, I consider it an affront.

I have never stated that all Mexicans are illegal, nor have I stated that all Mexican illegal aliens are violent criminals. However, it is a fact that many illegal aliens are committing heinous crimes throughout this country, and to deny that is disingenuous.

I am not inclined to participate in childish race-baiting. I have no problem continuing a debate with you in a civil manner, but I will not be a party to nonsense.
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Old 07-11-2008, 12:05 AM
 
Location: California
3,172 posts, read 6,002,291 times
Reputation: 332
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
AMC, for the most part I have enjoyed debating these issues with you, notwithstanding your incessant accusations. I have tried my best to explain my position, and I have denied being anti-Mexican/Hispanic ad nauseam.

Your comments today left no room for doubt in my mind. If you believe black people are only unemployed due to a lack of desire to work, you are certainly entitled to your opinion. However, as a black person, I consider it an affront.

I have never stated that all Mexicans are illegal, nor have I stated that all Mexican illegal aliens are violent criminals. However, it is a fact that many illegal aliens are committing heinous crimes throughout this country, and to deny that is disingenuous.

I am not inclined to participate in childish race-baiting. I have no problem continuing a debate with you in a civil manner, but I will not be a party to nonsense.
When I was talking about the problems of the poor neighborhoods of this country, wasn't it you who said "its up to them to bring themselves up" and that you don't subscribe to the "victim of the environment" excuse?

I said, "if people want to work, they'll work."

Pretty much EXACTLY what you said in response to my posts earlier.

Im confused to how you really feel.






As a LATINO, I find much of the stuff that has been said as an affront. But that doesn't matter does it? Some stuff is okay to say while other stuff isnt.
And believe I get mad when someone suggests that it is in my culture to rape young children.
How would you feel if this was said about African-American culture? And people actually listened as if it was true. Would that be considered an affront by you?
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Old 07-11-2008, 12:07 AM
 
3,368 posts, read 10,289,068 times
Reputation: 1675
Wow... this author is entitled to voice her opinions but I must opine that her anger/frustration seems to be terribly misplaced. She has had some bad experiences and I am sorry for that... I hope that someday she will see the flipside that immigrants from all backgrounds are succeeding wonderfully in this country and are assimilating just as immigrants throughout the years have always done.
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Old 07-11-2008, 12:26 AM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,830,020 times
Reputation: 3028
Quote:
Originally Posted by amc760 View Post
When I was talking about the problems of the poor neighborhoods of this country, wasn't it you who said "its up to them to bring themselves up" and that you don't subscribe to the "victim of the environment" excuse?

I said, "if people want to work, they'll work."

Pretty much EXACTLY what you said in response to my posts earlier.

Im confused to how you really feel.


As a LATINO, I find much of the stuff that has been said as an affront. But that doesn't matter does it? Some stuff is okay to say while other stuff isnt.
And believe I get mad when someone suggests that it is in my culture to rape young children.
How would you feel if this was said about African-American culture? And people actually listened as if it was true. Would that be considered an affront by you?
Have you ever heard me accuse Mexicans of being child molesters? Have you ever heard me state that perversion is an integral component of the Hispanic culture? Have you ever heard me state that Mexicans need to leave this country? Have you ever heard me refer to Mexicans or Hispanics by any derogatory term? Have you ever heard me wish harm to befall any Hispanic legal or illegal? I could continue, but I think you get the message.

My opposition is to illegal immigration, period. I know there are many wonderful Mexicans and Hispanics, because as astonishing as it may seem to you, I have several very dear friends from Mexico. I made friends during my annual visits to Cancun, many whom I speak with on a regular basis. Some have even visited my home.

I have acknowledged on numerous occasions the problems with many blacks. Your comments today were not remotely related to that, and you know it.

Quite frankly, Iím sick of defending my position. Iím sick of denying Iím a racist. Think whatever you want. I know who I am. Itís late, Iím tired, and Iím going to bed. If you wish, we can continue this discussion tomorrow.
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Old 07-11-2008, 01:10 AM
 
Location: Bountiful, Utah
219 posts, read 378,825 times
Reputation: 71
You obviously are not a woman AMC so you don't have to deal with it, but, everytime I or any other woman walks down the street or in a store, it doesn't matter if these men are with someone or not they start staring and saying crude things and they don't stop, it is very annoying and very disrespectful! I have seen them do this to my 12-year old daughter! And I tell them to go to hell. It is a clash of culture - because here we don't think 12 year old girls are women. I don't know too much about what goes on there with how old is old enough to start a family. But they all seem to do this to any woman/girl at any age and the younger the better. Just watch the news any given night there are illegals molesting VERY young girls and impregnating their "girlfriends" that are still in Jr. High School when they are adults! They need to learn we don't play like that here. It is not acceptable.

Last edited by AnnaGrrrrrl; 07-11-2008 at 01:13 AM.. Reason: re-wording
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Old 07-11-2008, 01:55 AM
 
57 posts, read 89,630 times
Reputation: 27
I agree with MIKEETC regarding JDubsMom comments "Your children are not safe when young Mexican males are around." It's not just to pin this type of thinking on all of the males of Mexico. Have you surveyed every Mexican male to come to this conclusion?
Secondly, is this type of thinking found only in Mexico? I've heard the phrase "Old enough to bleed, old enough to breed", spoken by several males of different nationalities. Thirdly, I think the fact that you worded your statement the way you did; that just by being around Mexican males, children are not safe. This exaggeration reveals an anxiety towards all Mexican males, which may be the result of your personal experience(s). The only reason I'm responding to your comment, is because this is the way one person's personal experience with an infinitesimal sample of an entire group of people, which in this case are Mexican males, is translated and communicated to others as if it is a true reflection of the entire group. This is how stereotypes are formed and are undeservingly attributed to all members of a group. If I was not a mindful individual, I would've walked away from your story, emotionally affected by your experience, and unknowingly, that much more critical of an entire group of people because of the actions of one of it's members. Remember, words have an affect; choose them wisely.
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Old 07-11-2008, 02:53 AM
 
8,973 posts, read 14,629,517 times
Reputation: 2983
Quote:
Originally Posted by amc760 View Post
It is not part of Mexican culture to rape children. I'm sorry, I can't even understand people not speaking out against this post. It's ridiculous.

The author of the original article also doesn't believe in multiculturalism, that is why he has to make up crap like this, and is against IMMIGRATION, not illegal immigration, but IMMIGRATION.

Multiculturalism isn't the problem, ignorance is.
I don't think we're talking 'rape of children' here at all. I only got into the thread in a very general way. But I do know that sexual 'mores', like MANY aspects of life, DO vary widely among cultures. And I think you'll find that in Mexico, the law regarding this thing is QUITE DIFFERENT from US Law. I think if you check it out, you'll find the concept of "Statutory Rape" is almost non-existant there. This isn't the 'rape of children', it's the 'hitting on' of underage girls by adult men. THere's no equivalent for the gringo term of 'jailbait' in Mexican culture.,,,no such expression as "fifteen will get you twenty"..because in Mexico, there's no law to protect this age group, as there is here.....at least, not any law that's ever enforced.

There are WIDE differences in MOST cultures involving most of how life is lived, and how 'we' fit in. VERY significant differences about violence, revenge, sexual practices, women's rights, husband's rights over wives, children's rights, and all SORTS of differences, many of them reflected in the laws of different places....VERY different concepts of what's OK, and what's inexcusably not. In some cultures, drunkenness is 'funny'..in other cultures, it's disgraceful. Some countries value swift, violent revenge in personal conflicts..in others (like ours) revenge is prosecuted.

You don't honestly think, do you, that the whole world just somehow instinctively 'knows how to act' around each other, and 'what to do and not to do"? They don't. Cultures have the potential to cause serious misunderstandings....and if we insist on seeking a multicultural future (the 'salad bowl', rather than the 'melting pot'), then that's what we can expect...an ongoing, repetitious string of incidents in which one party infuriates another...because he 'did it HIS way', and the other guy found it inappropriate or offensive.

Was the OP offensive and overly broad? Sure it was. It made sweeping generalizations where none should have been made. Did it reflect racism? I'm not sure. But it DID attack another person's culture, with at least some degree of validity. An d to that extent, the post was ugly and disturbing, and 'overly broad".....but I don't think it was just 'made up'.

Did the OP make 'racial judgements'? Not in any convincing way, But she did point out differences in cultural attitudes.
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Old 07-11-2008, 08:53 AM
 
Location: Denver
9,067 posts, read 15,492,134 times
Reputation: 5288
Quote:
Your children are not safe when young Mexican males are around. I hate to put this so bluntly, but we need to know this
Ok when is enough, enough? Why is the immigration forum the only forum that can post random stories that propagate these kind of insane lies about Mexicans?

I agree with AMC this is a ridiculous thing to say and immediately loses credibility for anyone who posts such nonsense, regardless of who wrote it.

Try posting this kind of crap in P&OC and you would get hammered.

Last edited by Mach50; 07-11-2008 at 09:21 AM..
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