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Old 07-11-2008, 11:25 AM
 
8,973 posts, read 14,612,395 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
As a person whose race has been plagued by the ugliness of stereotypes for hundreds of years, I can certainly appreciate the feelings of Hispanics in response to stories such as this. That being said, I really don’t believe this woman’s story was posted for the express purpose of maligning Mexicans or specifically Mexican men. Rather, I believe it was intended to illustrate one element of the menace we are forced to endure from our porous borders, and lack of enforcement of our immigration laws.

I read stories on a daily basis of heinous crimes being committed by illegal aliens; many of which are perpetrated against teenagers and defenseless children. Some are so disturbing that simply based on the title, I opt not to read. I have to daily remind myself that these deplorable acts are not representative of the vast majority of illegal aliens. I also have to remind myself that although there are millions of illegal aliens residing in our country in flagrant violation of our laws, a distinction must be made between the “average” illegal and the vile reprobates; not to absolve them, but to separate them from an undeserving characterization.

I cringe each time I see a news report of a black person involved in criminal behavior. Why? Because I know it is simply another nail in the coffin of the black stereotype. Stereotypes are one of the most insidious evils to be ascribed to a group of people, and once firmly established, are virtually impervious. All members of the stereotyped group are burdened and suffer for the negative behavior of a few.

I have spent the majority of my life fighting to dispel negative black stereotypes. I did all of the “right” things…..excelled in school, earned degrees, exemplary employee, paid my bills, paid my taxes, instilled values in my son, etc., etc., etcetera. Notwithstanding my efforts, the stark reality is, I will always be judged in accordance with the prevailing perception of my race. If anything, I will be considered the exception, rather than the norm; when the reality is, I am neither.

In reality, Black Americans are as diverse as any other race/ethnicity. We are not all good, and we are not all bad. We are not all educated, and we are not all ignorant. Sadly, we are all judged by the actions of a few. One has only to visit Politics and Other Controversies here at City Data to experience the rabid perpetuation of black stereotypes. Since joining City Data, there has not been one single day without an open “Black” thread, of which the vast majority are posted by latent racists to deprecate Black America……. “Why Can’t Black People _______?” (fill in the blank). Yet, many of the posters who have absolutely no problem with denigrating blacks will condemn a negative post pertaining to illegal immigration as being “racist.”

Supporters of illegal aliens who refuse to differentiate between legal Hispanics and illegal aliens, are unwittingly creating a negative perception in the minds of many non-Hispanic Americans; which is precisely the impetus for the prevalence of equating “Hispanic” with “illegal.” Frequently posters will pose the question: “How do you know they’re illegal?” The answer of course is……you don’t. Likewise, barring an explicit indication, it is impossible to distinguish between a decent black man walking down the street, and one who is intent on robbing you. It’s all a matter of perception.

In their attempt to subjugate the illegal immigration issue, advocates for illegal immigration are in fact pouring the foundation for a negative stereotype which will not be easily abated. IMO, they owe legal Hispanics an apology.

I’m glad this story was posted. Not as an indictment of Mexicans or Hispanics in general. Rather, to underscore the inherent damage created by the deliberate juxtaposing of legal with illegal. When no distinction is made between right and wrong, or good and bad, all are viewed as one.

Sorry for the lengthy post.
Thoughtful...insightful....well-written....
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Old 07-11-2008, 11:28 AM
Status: "Make America the Great Joke Again" (set 23 days ago)
 
Location: Denver
9,060 posts, read 15,467,286 times
Reputation: 5288
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
Unfortunately, what you as an Hispanic are now experiencing, is what blacks have experienced in this country for years. Yes, it's ignorance. Sadly, it's a reality.

This will only worsen, the longer this illegal immigration issue is left unresolved, and the longer illegal aliens are referred to as “immigrants.”
So what you and AZBear are saying, correct me if I am wrong, but there definitely is a racist bi-product to all of this?
Yet when I or someone else calls it out as such, we are labeled "card pullers".

Since we are all being honest here and getting down to brass tacts, let's just all get real and admit that.
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Old 07-11-2008, 11:36 AM
 
8,973 posts, read 14,612,395 times
Reputation: 2983
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mach50 View Post
This is the only forum on the site that seems to be a "free for all" post any random story as factual and official for discussion, with 1 caveat, the randomness must be anti-illegal and mostly anti-Mexican.

Yet to make a point I posted a random race bashing story site once and was told I am "race baiting" over and over. This is a 'click' forum with a double standard for posting criteria.


Is this OP not race baiting?
I don't know.....it's pretty ugly, as you say. Yet I don't think the ugliness is all one-sided. For every "illegals are violent criminals" post, there are also number of posts and photos attempting to connect those who question illegal immigration with all sorts of dangerous 'trailer trash'. Plenty of "Minutemen = violent racists = Nazis" stuff as well. Plenty of stories, also, about illegals being manipulated by outside forces, and any attempt to get things under control as "tearing families apart"....and plenty of demands that any effort to control illegal entry into the US be seen as 'fair' by those who are doing the crossing (in other words, DON'T control it)...

It's very hard to sort all this out, and to separate the ridiculous from the genuine.
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Old 07-11-2008, 11:40 AM
Status: "Make America the Great Joke Again" (set 23 days ago)
 
Location: Denver
9,060 posts, read 15,467,286 times
Reputation: 5288
Quote:
Originally Posted by macmeal View Post
I don't know.....it's pretty ugly, as you say. Yet I don't think the ugliness is all one-sided. For every "illegals are violent criminals" post, (1) there are also number of posts and photos attempting to connect those who question illegal immigration with all sorts of dangerous 'trailer trash'. Plenty of "Minutemen = violent racists = Nazis" stuff as well.(2) Plenty of stories, also, about illegals being manipulated by outside forces, and any attempt to get things under control as "tearing families apart"....aqnd plenty of demands that any effort to control illegal entry into the US be seen as 'fair' by those who are doing the crossing (in other words, DON'T control it)...

It's very hard to sort all this out, and to separate the ridiculous from the genuine.
Mac - I don't have the time to run statistical methods on this forum to prove what you say is true. However, in my opinion the posts of subject (1) compared to posts of subject (2) are in no comparison to each other. (1) is by far the leader.
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Old 07-11-2008, 11:42 AM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,809,199 times
Reputation: 3028
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mach50 View Post
So what you and AZBear are saying, correct me if I am wrong, but there definitely is a racist bi-product to all of this?
Yet when I or someone else calls it out as such, we are labeled "card pullers".

Since we are all being honest here and getting down to brass tacts, let's just all get real and admit that.
No, you’re confusing "racism" with "stereotype." Racism is generally the byproduct of hatred or feelings of superiority; whereas stereotypes are the byproduct of instilled negative perceptions. However, one is not necessarily mutually exclusive of the other.

When a woman clutches her purse when approaching a strange black man, yet feels no sense of threat when approaching a strange white man, it is generally due to negative stereotypes. It need not indicate racism.
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Old 07-11-2008, 11:48 AM
 
8,973 posts, read 14,612,395 times
Reputation: 2983
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mach50 View Post
Mac - I don't have the time to run statistical methods on this forum to prove what you say is true. However, in my opinion the posts of subject (1) compared to posts of subject (2) are in no comparison to each other. (1) is by far the leader.
I won't argue your point....you're probably correct, in the 'numbers' department. I can only say, as I have before, that this ugliness is the price we're paying for letting things 'slide' for so many years. Something should have been done about this 30 years ago....remember, that theoretically, all the major and minor amnesties we've had were supposed to 'fix' the problem. Yet it seems like for all the 'good' amnesty achieved (I think you mentioned your Mom as a beneficiary), it seems to have caused an even greater amount of resentment, frustration, and false expectations.

I hear what you're saying..it IS getting ugly (thankfully, I see a lot more ugliness on this forum than I do in my everyday life). But in the end, it's THIS country that's being stressed and impacted by illegal immigration, and THIS country that's told to "smile...go with the flow....and learn to deal with it". Many of us HAVE, while some obviously have NOT....and since THIS country is being affected, I suppose it stands to reason that THIS country is where 'they're coming out of the woodwork"...and some of them are showing up on this forum...makes sense to me, at least.
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Old 07-11-2008, 11:50 AM
 
7,020 posts, read 9,895,366 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mach50 View Post
So what you and AZBear are saying, correct me if I am wrong, but there definitely is a racist bi-product to all of this?
Yet when I or someone else calls it out as such, we are labeled "card pullers".

Since we are all being honest here and getting down to brass tacts, let's just all get real and admit that.
As stated above, sadly there are some in this country who will be racist against people of color until the day that they die, regardless of their status. Then there are those of us whose opposition is based strictly on the premise of illegal immigration. The fact that many legal hispanics are demanding amnesty for their illegal hispanic counterparts based solely on the premise of race; the blatant disrespect of our language, culture and laws plays a huge role in the anger and hostility of Americans. The sheer arrogance, the abundance of criminal activity, the marches, the threats of "today we march tomorrow we vote" the abundance of financial drain, the overpopulation and the overall 3rd world culture and spanish language being forced upon us are all to blame.

If you are really concerned about the pot boiling over then stop defending the indefensible. You are always ready, willing and able to point the finger of racism while ignorning the fact that the majority of us just want the illegal aliens to go home, demand rights, jobs, social services and education, welfare and free healthcare in their own countries, since this is the only reason they keep coming to America by the millions.
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Old 07-11-2008, 11:54 AM
 
Location: Mesa, Az
21,148 posts, read 36,615,542 times
Reputation: 3785
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
No, you’re confusing "racism" with "stereotype." Racism is generally the byproduct of hatred or feelings of superiority; whereas stereotypes are the byproduct of instilled negative perceptions. However, one is not necessarily mutually exclusive of the other.

When a woman clutches her purse when approaching a strange black man, yet feels no sense of threat when approaching a strange white man, it is generally due to negative stereotypes. It need not indicate racism.
Not just women:

Jesse Jackson; yes............'the cut his nuts off' one (comment directed towards Obama )--------admitted when hearing some footsteps behind him and turning around, he saw it was a White man whereupon he relaxed.

Racism in the strictest sense of the word perhaps---------based on probable cause. And few Blacks would dare call Jackson a Black hating White supremacist.
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Old 07-11-2008, 11:57 AM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,809,199 times
Reputation: 3028
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mach50 View Post
So what you and AZBear are saying, correct me if I am wrong, but there definitely is a racist bi-product to all of this?
Yet when I or someone else calls it out as such, we are labeled "card pullers".

Since we are all being honest here and getting down to brass tacts, let's just all get real and admit that.
To expound on my previous post: As a black woman I am certainly not “racist” against black youth. However, if I had to pick up someone from the Anacostia Metro station in Washington, DC and a group of guys approached my car, I would most definitely lock my doors, and I would feel a certain uneasiness. This is all based on negative "stereotypes" of the youth living in that particular area.
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Old 07-11-2008, 11:57 AM
 
Location: Mesa, Az
21,148 posts, read 36,615,542 times
Reputation: 3785
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mach50 View Post
So what you and AZBear are saying, correct me if I am wrong, but there definitely is a racist bi-product to all of this?
Yet when I or someone else calls it out as such, we are labeled "card pullers".

Since we are all being honest here and getting down to brass tacts, let's just all get real and admit that.
And I place most of the growing fear/dislike towards certain people on the Un-American llegal immigrants and thier enablers.

It is called the Law of Unintended Consequences.
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