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Old 07-12-2008, 07:12 PM
 
8,180 posts, read 11,039,458 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HoustonCynic View Post
As long as it applies to ALL residents who rent no matter color or creed then fine let them do it. But when you see the first paragraph in the article stating that the law only applies to a specific group of people then then to your point... insanity.
Just when did being an illegal alien working illegally in the US become a protected subgroup? Are they a race? Albeit in the Omaha newspaper it was reported that members of the Nebraska Mexican American Commision were the first to go to Fremont to protest it. (btw, this is why when a person says 'illegal' Mexico comes to mind) I mean really......aside from very basic human rights i.e. we do not kill illegal immigrants, nor rape them nor torture them......do we owe them American civil liberties? They are not US citizens. Let us be clear on that.

As far as making people register to be able to rent....it is not a good idea on many levels. Still, Fremont and any other city has the right to place laws that restricts illegal activity in their township, and illegal immigrants are illegal no matter how unpalatable a truth that is for some to hear.
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Old 07-12-2008, 07:22 PM
 
Location: Major Metro
1,083 posts, read 2,060,810 times
Reputation: 353
Quote:
Originally Posted by StoneOne View Post
Have to disagree. An occupancy license is one step short of a registration system whereby the government keeps tabs on the whereabouts of everyone. A lot of continental Europe and the former Soviet Union still have these systems, which have their origins in the days when control over population movements was very rigid. However benign it might seem, it still has the effect of drastically reducing people's liberty.

There is no way that this sort of law would withstand a court challenge, at least I sincerely hope there is no way it would. It completely goes against the freedom of movement and travel enshrined in our laws.
Aren't we close to this anyway? I mean we have to keep our addresses up to date with the DMV (at least your driver's license is supposed to have current info) and when we file our taxes we provide such info. If you buy a house, property taxes are assessed so the gov't knows where you live. I agree the law must be applied to everyone but I'm not sure what the panick is about.
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Old 07-12-2008, 07:35 PM
 
Location: Southern California
15,088 posts, read 16,946,617 times
Reputation: 10278
The solution is to have a national identification card that specifically states that the card holder is a citizen of the United States. We have cards for Social Security, Driver's License, the library, Blockbuster...

For something as important as proof of citizenship, it is better than what we have now - which is nothing - because nothing that most people carry with them on a daily basis proves citizenship.
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Old 07-12-2008, 07:44 PM
 
Location: Fort Worth/Dallas
11,878 posts, read 32,936,242 times
Reputation: 5539
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Hazzard View Post
With all due respect, please knock off the integration type posts, I don't appreciate that type of questioning, thank you. Here is a page link to an [SIZE=4][SIZE=4]
"APPLICATION FOR A RESIDENTIAL OCCUPANCY PERMIT", I hope that this will answer your above questions.

http://overlandmo.org/PW%20Forms/occupancy%20permit%20residential%20app.pdf (broken link)
[/SIZE]
[/SIZE]
What is an "integration" type post? Is he trying to integrate with you or something?
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Old 07-12-2008, 08:06 PM
 
1,956 posts, read 4,679,792 times
Reputation: 1101
Quote:
Originally Posted by prim2007 View Post
Aren't we close to this anyway? I mean we have to keep our addresses up to date with the DMV (at least your driver's license is supposed to have current info) and when we file our taxes we provide such info. If you buy a house, property taxes are assessed so the gov't knows where you live. I agree the law must be applied to everyone but I'm not sure what the panick is about.
Yes, but it is very decentralized and uncoordinated. There is no way of ensuring that information from any one of these agencies is current (i.e. requesting data from each agency might result in a number of different addresses).

If the government needs to find me, or if the police need to find me, the burden should be 100% on them to find me. Otherwise, tyranny could easily result.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MIKEETC View Post
The solution is to have a national identification card that specifically states that the card holder is a citizen of the United States. We have cards for Social Security, Driver's License, the library, Blockbuster...

For something as important as proof of citizenship, it is better than what we have now - which is nothing - because nothing that most people carry with them on a daily basis proves citizenship.
Another violation of civil liberties, as that would essentially require some sort of national registration system. Even worse would be the very easy step of requiring people to carry such a card with them at all times. And then, why not have police performing document checks on the streets, just to make sure there aren't illegals out and about?

No thanks. I've lived in countries where this thing is a reality, and it's a road we definitely don't want to go down here.
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Old 07-12-2008, 08:26 PM
 
Location: Southern California
15,088 posts, read 16,946,617 times
Reputation: 10278
Quote:
Originally Posted by StoneOne View Post
Yes, but it is very decentralized and uncoordinated. There is no way of ensuring that information from any one of these agencies is current (i.e. requesting data from each agency might result in a number of different addresses).

If the government needs to find me, or if the police need to find me, the burden should be 100% on them to find me. Otherwise, tyranny could easily result.



Another violation of civil liberties, as that would essentially require some sort of national registration system. Even worse would be the very easy step of requiring people to carry such a card with them at all times. And then, why not have police performing document checks on the streets, just to make sure there aren't illegals out and about?

No thanks. I've lived in countries where this thing is a reality, and it's a road we definitely don't want to go down here.
I'm not particularly thrilled with the solution. I'd rather that people, business, government, or whoever just simply trust me to say who I am. But that's not realistic. Considering how we readily allow 'encroachments' into our civil liberties via the cards I just mentioned, another card, for a more important reason seems reasonable.

I'm with you on government not needing to know where I am every second of the day. I'm not saying that government should know what I'm doing right now. But we need to have a means to 'test' for residency/citizenship status.

Otherwise, illegal immigrants who have been here for a while, who speak English reasonably well (which is not a test anyway), and have established themselves could easily answer the question, "Are you a citizen?" with a simple, "Yes," silence, and walk away.

If we're trying to deport them all (the 100% success of which I consider doubtful), then the last thing we want is to have the illegal in our custody, so to speak, only to have them freed because we don't have a means to check.

Note, I am not saying that we should have random checks in the middle of the night or while I'm walking down the street. We should only be required when in conjunction with other government-oriented business.
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Old 07-12-2008, 08:37 PM
 
Location: Wilkes-Barre, Pennsylvania USA
2,308 posts, read 2,063,984 times
Reputation: 369
Quote:
Originally Posted by MIKEETC View Post
You mean interrogation, yes?

Anyway, lighten up. You posted something that appears to be something you support. Then you went further to explain that occupancy permits are already required in some places. Is it too much to ask for more information? Or a source for said information such as a link? Thank you BTW. I'll enjoy reading it.

Anyway, the purpose of a forum such as this is to encourage dialog. Questions should be expected, especially for difficult subject matter where there will be multiple, opposing viewpoints. I am not challenging you and/or attempting to change your opinion. I am trying to figure out what is going on. You and I could be on the same side of the issue.

I do not accept everything at face value and I don't expect anyone else to do so either.

Cheers...
Yes, thank you for correcting my typo, although you could say that "integration" and "interrogation" might be one and the same in this situation. My "problem" with your posting format goes back 40 years to Southeast Asia, 'nuff said. Yes, I support the sovereignty of a municipality to have knowledge of the persons that reside withing its borders, legal or otherwise. The occupancy permit has been challenged several times and has been found to be constitutional as it within the rights of legally constituted entities, such as towns and cities, to have knowledge of the residents that reside within it's legally constituted borders. It is also constitutional for towns and cities to be aware of the conditions of it's residences for its citizens. Slumlords can not exist in an environment of inspections and re-inspections. Unincorporated ares do not have the authority to issue occupancy permits.
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Old 07-12-2008, 08:48 PM
 
Location: Wilkes-Barre, Pennsylvania USA
2,308 posts, read 2,063,984 times
Reputation: 369
Quote:
Originally Posted by MIKEETC View Post
The solution is to have a national identification card that specifically states that the card holder is a citizen of the United States. We have cards for Social Security, Driver's License, the library, Blockbuster...

For something as important as proof of citizenship, it is better than what we have now - which is nothing - because nothing that most people carry with them on a daily basis proves citizenship.
The Social Security card is the nearest device that the US has as a pseudo National Identity Card. The problem with a SS card is that they can be phonied up by a 10 year old kid and a computer! I am in favor of a biometrically based NIC which is all but impossible (?) to forge and would be absolute proof of a person's legal status within the country. I'm 62 years old and I'm 50/50 on whether I'll see a NIC in my lifetime, but make no mistake, it is in the future, like it or not.

Last edited by Steve Hazzard; 07-12-2008 at 08:50 PM.. Reason: Correct typoes (typos)!
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Old 07-12-2008, 08:52 PM
 
1,956 posts, read 4,679,792 times
Reputation: 1101
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Hazzard View Post
The Social Security card is the nearest device that the US has as a pseudo National Identity Card. The problem with a SS card is that they can be phonied up by a 10 year old kid and a computer! I am in favor of a biometrically based NIC which is all but impossible (?) to forge and would be absolute proof of a person's legal status within the country. I'm 62 years old and I'm 50/50 on whether I'll see a NIC in my lifetime, but make no mistake, it is in the future, like it or not.
If we have national ID cards in this country, I'll follow the new mayor London, Boris Johnson, in putting mine to use!!!


YouTube - Uncut Boris Johnson No2ID Cards Video
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Old 07-12-2008, 08:59 PM
 
Location: Wilkes-Barre, Pennsylvania USA
2,308 posts, read 2,063,984 times
Reputation: 369
Quote:
Originally Posted by StoneOne View Post
If we have national ID cards in this country, I'll follow the new mayor London, Boris Johnson, in putting mine to use!!!


YouTube - Uncut Boris Johnson No2ID Cards Video
Mayor Johnson is certainly blunt about his uses for a NIC, I don't know about the "blender" and "Corn flakes" ideas, that might be a little gritty on the both the intake and output!
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