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Old 07-13-2008, 10:34 AM
 
4,828 posts, read 6,793,608 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GuyPinestra View Post
So the opinion that massive immigration (legal or not) is no longer a benefit to this country is to be dismissed out of hand? You would think that in America a man is entitled to his opinion.

Here's a little video that you will ALSO say is 'anti-immigrant', because it shows the deleterious effects of MASSIVE immigration (legal or not) into this country.


YouTube - Immigration Gumballs
Consider the source or who made the video. NumbersUSA is also against all forms of immigration, so why would i take their propaganda video seriously?
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Old 07-13-2008, 10:58 AM
 
Location: Arizona
2,065 posts, read 3,175,726 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blacknight04 View Post
Consider the source or who made the video. NumbersUSA is also against all forms of immigration, so why would i take their propaganda video seriously?
Try arguing against the numbers instead of calling it propaganda.

Use a calculator if you must, but admit it, the numbers don't lie.
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Old 07-13-2008, 12:15 PM
 
8,973 posts, read 14,620,778 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blacknight04 View Post
That is what i've been saying all along about the so called "anti-illegals" crowd, they are really the anti-immigrant crowd. I'm glad this Krikorian guy from CIS doesn't hide the fact that he is against all forms of immigration.
But just as a matter of discussion, it's no more outrageous to question the continued flow of huge numbers of immigrants into the nation (a nation already pretty well developed, and WAY past any need to be 'filled up') than it is to qestion our ongoing near-total dependance on oil....is it? Sooner or later, at some point, we as a nation just won't be able to continue EITHER ONE in the way we have in the past (admitting immigrants OR importing oil).

I don't know much about Krikorian, either....but I'd be willing to hear his points...if I could afford to.
Where is it 'written in stone' that a nation which in the past was built on the backs of immigrants, poorly educated and in huge numbers, must continue on into the future, with 'business as usual'...only from now on, with less attention paid to 'legal' vs 'illegal'? I see no connection between the two.
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Old 07-13-2008, 01:05 PM
 
608 posts, read 881,469 times
Reputation: 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by GuyPinestra View Post
Try arguing against the numbers instead of calling it propaganda.

Use a calculator if you must, but admit it, the numbers don't lie.
But at the end of the day they are just numbers and numbers can be used and adjusted to support any argument. Five years ago they would have never predicted the price of oil per barrel would be over $50 let alone $140 or more. Same for the numbers of illegals as we only have estimates and no one really knows for sure. So numbers really are just that... numbers.
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Old 07-13-2008, 01:16 PM
 
Location: Mesa, Az
21,148 posts, read 36,637,375 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HoustonCynic View Post
But at the end of the day they are just numbers and numbers can be used and adjusted to support any argument. Five years ago they would have never predicted the price of oil per barrel would be over $50 let alone $140 or more. Same for the numbers of illegals as we only have estimates and no one really knows for sure. So numbers really are just that... numbers.
All the more reason to both develop energy supplies independent of OPEC and make the USA much less 'friendly' to illegal immigrants.
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Old 07-13-2008, 02:17 PM
 
Location: Arizona
2,065 posts, read 3,175,726 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HoustonCynic View Post
But at the end of the day they are just numbers and numbers can be used and adjusted to support any argument. Five years ago they would have never predicted the price of oil per barrel would be over $50 let alone $140 or more. Same for the numbers of illegals as we only have estimates and no one really knows for sure. So numbers really are just that... numbers.
We certainly know the number of people living in the country today, and the number of people that were living here 20 years ago. We know the number of immigrants that have come to this country , and we have a pretty good idea of the number of illegal aliens. The projections of our population growth can be considered as accurate, based upon the proven methods used to calculate said population growth.

And BTW, I knew what the price of oil was going to do 5 years ago, as well as the price of commodities and foodstuffs. All it takes is paying attention to our duplicitous government and their corporate financiers, they're the ones who've profited from all this.
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Old 07-13-2008, 03:24 PM
 
300 posts, read 482,004 times
Reputation: 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by StoneOne View Post
So if there's all this revolution propaganda on Spanish language radio and TV in the states, isn't Obama right about American kids learning Spanish? Shouldn't we know what we're up against?
Wouldn't it be easier to deport the unwanted illegals? That would be 100% of anyone that is illegally in this country.
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Old 07-13-2008, 05:09 PM
 
1,956 posts, read 4,679,436 times
Reputation: 1101
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quirky Cynick View Post
Wouldn't it be easier to deport the unwanted illegals? That would be 100% of anyone that is illegally in this country.
You obviously don't know much about logistics. Even Stalin's numerically impressive deportations during the Second World War were minuscule compared to the logistical nightmare that would face the U.S. federal government. And Stalin had a much more effectively centralized government than the U.S. does now or, hopefully, could ever hope to.

Unless these people are obviously committing other crimes aside from issues concerning their documents, I don't see the problem in giving them a path to legality here. It will better serve the purposes of integration, normalize labor markets, increase tax revenues at the local and federal level and probably serve to put a damper on ideas of la reconquista.
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Old 07-13-2008, 05:23 PM
 
Location: Fort Worth/Dallas
11,878 posts, read 32,934,171 times
Reputation: 5539
Quote:
Originally Posted by StoneOne View Post
Unless these people are obviously committing other crimes aside from issues concerning their documents

Issues concerning their documents are a felony if you are talking about stolen SSNs and forging other documentation.

When are these crimes by illegal immigrants considered "across the line" to you? Is there no end to this insane fascination with illegal immigrants and their "rights" in this country?
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Old 07-13-2008, 05:40 PM
 
Location: NW Las Vegas - Lone Mountain
15,756 posts, read 32,508,894 times
Reputation: 2661
Quote:
Originally Posted by Synopsis View Post
Issues concerning their documents are a felony if you are talking about stolen SSNs and forging other documentation.

When are these crimes by illegal immigrants considered "across the line" to you? Is there no end to this insane fascination with illegal immigrants and their "rights" in this country?
They are potentially felonies but practically never pursued except for those selling them in volume.

Same old problem. One does not pursue a couple of million violators. Costs too much and takes too long.
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