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Old 07-15-2008, 04:54 PM
 
3,368 posts, read 10,276,533 times
Reputation: 1675

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1. I suggest that we scratch the plan for the fence and build a 20 foot wall around the entire perimeter of our southern border.

Though I don't support it, I don't really care enough about the "wall" issue to get riled up over it. It's a distraction to the real issue and I don't like to get caught up in the symbolism.

2. Until the wall is complete, I suggest that we post armed guards at the current border and post signs advising the invaders of shoot to kill orders of anyone who becomes resistant upon being turned back.

This is a bit much, don't you think?

3. Seal up all the drug tunnels.

Fine with me.

4. ABOLISH the 14th Amendment; no more anchor babies. Only children born in the US to illegal alien parents prior to 1998 will be grandfathered in.

So we are going to marginalize the children of illegal aliens who, at no fault of their own, were born into a land that refuses to recognize their birthright to citizenship? I am very against this notion.

5. Cut off ALL social services and free education to non citizens. Only emergency health care will be given and the bill should be sent to the government of the illegal aliens country of origin;

See above response. It is unimaginable to turn away the children of illegal aliens from our schools because it would create more social problems (and cost more money) than the money that would be saved from refusing to educate them. The Supreme Court has said that access to free public education is a pseudo-fundamental right. I support the continuation of education and social services to illegal aliens because without providing these services, it is quite possible that the aggregate amount of damage done to American society due to rampant unemployment, homelessness, sickness, and increased crime would far surpass the amount of money saved by not spending money on education, healthcare, and the like.

6. Raid all businesses suspected of hiring/harboring illegal aliens. Crack down on ALL employers caught hiring illegal aliens with stiff fines and hefty jail sentences. Women with children should be forced to take their children with them UNLESS they fall under the grandfather clause. If they have an American citizen/legal resident relative or friend they should be allowed to make arrangements (from their jail cell) with regard to the care of the anchor baby.

The raids are a bit much for me. However, I wouldn't be opposed to fining employers of illegal aliens.

7. Rid the jails of all IA's and make their respective government responsible for receiving them. If they refuse, cut off ALL aid until they take responsibility for their nationals.

The one instance in which I would possibly support deportation is in the instance of an illegal alien committing a grave crime like murder, rape, armed robbery, etc. Send the true, dangerous criminals back to their countries and let their governments deal with them.

8. Make America's official language ENGLISH.

For me this is a non-issue. It's symbolic and I don't like to get caught up in it. English is in no way threatened, so making it the national language isn't necessary; however, I would not be opposed to a measure that simply declared it our "national language."

9. Abolish the printing of all taxpayer funded government forms in any foreign language.

This is not practical. Newly arrived immigrants need this service and just because the Italians had a hard time with it in the 1920's doesn't mean that we should stubbornly and haphazardly refuse to provide government literature regarding transportation, education, and healthcare in languages other than English.

10. Temporary moratorium on ALL immigration until the majority of the IA's either self deport or are legally deported.

I just don't find this necessary, and therefore I would not support this.

11. Close all the loop holes in our current immigration policy; ensure that the laws therein are clearly stated.

Fair enough. Fix the problems and make the laws more workable.

12. Arrest anyone harboring illegal aliens for any reason (i.e. family members, etc.)

Not practical. I would not support the arrest of a young woman who "harbors" her illegal alien mother in her home. How the hell would we even go about enforcing such a thing?

13. Any church caught assisting, harboring, aiding or abetting an IA should have their tax exempt status rescinded. The enabler should be jailed for treason.

Too dramatic and unnecessary.

14. Any government official aiding, abetting or harboring illegal aliens should be fined and promptly jailed, inclusive of those declaring their city/state as an illegal alien sanctuary.

Too dramatic, unnecessary, and totally unworkable. How do you define "sanctuary city" anyways? Is Atlanta one? How about Wichita? New York?

15. Only when things settle down, and we have revised our policies to reflect the original reasons/rules for legal immigration. Allow LEGAL immigration in limited quotas to suit the needs of AMERICA, not because somebody is looking for the "American Dream" or think they are entitled to their nonexistent "piece of the pie".

Fair enough.. however, I believe that the United States economy is absorbing the current flow of immigrant (including the illegal immigrants) - it is my opinion that the "needs of America" are bring met pretty well. If you doubled the amount of immigrants, my opinion might very well change.
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Old 07-15-2008, 05:00 PM
 
3,368 posts, read 10,276,533 times
Reputation: 1675
Quote:
Originally Posted by JDubsMom View Post
I think its fair and just to all parties involved, even illegal aliens. We'll get our country back and the worst that can happen to them is they just might wake up and start demanding change from their OWN governments.
But when - and by whom - was our country "taken away" ? I surely missed this epic event, even while living in the "sanctuary cities" of Miami, Boston, and New York.
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Old 07-15-2008, 05:11 PM
 
Location: Lake Norman, North Carolina
1,213 posts, read 1,398,109 times
Reputation: 392
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mach50 View Post
Does Brass Tacks = Personal Attacks?
No, just the non PC facts of a situaltion.

Quote:
Using "you" as a general party, not personal here:

1) If you need to insult others on this forum in a debate, then you have lost the argument.
2) If you need to make up statistics like JDUBSMOM has multiple times, then she loses the argument.
Not at all. If you vent in a rational way you haven't lost any argument.

Be careful now. Pro illegals make up statistics and absurdities at an alarming rate. If you resort to sob stories do you automatically lose an argument?

Quote:
You want to get real? You want to shed this forum of PC? I am cool with that, but do it in an intelligent, and civilized manner.
Otherwise you are no better than the uneducated, 3rd worlders, you are complaining about.
Yeah. Let's get real and shed this forum of PC in an intelligent and civilized manner. I'm not concerned at all with being better than illegal poverty reject Mexican scabs, just pro illegal open border activists with overlapping propagandistic agendas.
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Old 07-15-2008, 05:56 PM
 
Location: Arizona
2,065 posts, read 3,174,996 times
Reputation: 391
1. I suggest that we scratch the plan for the fence and build a 20 foot wall around the entire perimeter of our southern border.

Though I don't support it, I don't really care enough about the "wall" issue to get riled up over it. It's a distraction to the real issue and I don't like to get caught up in the symbolism.

Symbolism or not, anything that would stem the tide is an improvement over what is currently there.

2. Until the wall is complete, I suggest that we post armed guards at the current border and post signs advising the invaders of shoot to kill orders of anyone who becomes resistant upon being turned back.

This is a bit much, don't you think?

Has anything else made ANY impression on the millions per year that illegally violate our national sovereignty?

3. Seal up all the drug tunnels.

Fine with me.

And me.

4. ABOLISH the 14th Amendment; no more anchor babies. Only children born in the US to illegal alien parents prior to 1998 will be grandfathered in.

So we are going to marginalize the children of illegal aliens who, at no fault of their own, were born into a land that refuses to recognize their birthright to citizenship? I am very against this notion.

Two illegals can't make a citizen. Almost EVERY country on the planet limits 'birthright citizenship' to ONLY those children with at least ONE PARENT being a citizen of said country.

5. Cut off ALL social services and free education to non citizens. Only emergency health care will be given and the bill should be sent to the government of the illegal aliens country of origin;

See above response. It is unimaginable to turn away the children of illegal aliens from our schools because it would create more social problems (and cost more money) than the money that would be saved from refusing to educate them. The Supreme Court has said that access to free public education is a pseudo-fundamental right. I support the continuation of education and social services to illegal aliens because without providing these services, it is quite possible that the aggregate amount of damage done to American society due to rampant unemployment, homelessness, sickness, and increased crime would far surpass the amount of money saved by not spending money on education, healthcare, and the like.

Turning them away from schools (an expense that runs to the 100's of BILLIONS nationally) would not only save that money, but make it MUCH easier to locate and identify their illegal alien parents. This in turn would make their DEPORTATION easier, as well.

6. Raid all businesses suspected of hiring/harboring illegal aliens. Crack down on ALL employers caught hiring illegal aliens with stiff fines and hefty jail sentences. Women with children should be forced to take their children with them UNLESS they fall under the grandfather clause. If they have an American citizen/legal resident relative or friend they should be allowed to make arrangements (from their jail cell) with regard to the care of the anchor baby.

The raids are a bit much for me. However, I wouldn't be opposed to fining employers of illegal aliens.

Workplace enforcement is the EXISTING law of the land, as is possible JAIL TIME for employers. Make that jail time MANDATORY, along with 6 figure fines, and the employment of illegal aliens would become a NON-issue.

7. Rid the jails of all IA's and make their respective government responsible for receiving them. If they refuse, cut off ALL aid until they take responsibility for their nationals.

The one instance in which I would possibly support deportation is in the instance of an illegal alien committing a grave crime like murder, rape, armed robbery, etc. Send the true, dangerous criminals back to their countries and let their governments deal with them.

So all the other crimes like identity theft, false impersonation, etc. you would give them a WALK on? THAT'S telling...

8. Make America's official language ENGLISH.

For me this is a non-issue. It's symbolic and I don't like to get caught up in it. English is in no way threatened, so making it the national language isn't necessary; however, I would not be opposed to a measure that simply declared it our "national language."

I'm all for a 'sink or swim' policy when it comes to the printing of government forms. If you can't read or speak English, CRACK A BOOK!

9. Abolish the printing of all taxpayer funded government forms in any foreign language.

This is not practical. Newly arrived immigrants need this service and just because the Italians had a hard time with it in the 1920's doesn't mean that we should stubbornly and haphazardly refuse to provide government literature regarding transportation, education, and healthcare in languages other than English.

See my last response.

10. Temporary moratorium on ALL immigration until the majority of the IA's either self deport or are legally deported.

I just don't find this necessary, and therefore I would not support this.

I think it's BEYOND necessary, and I would hope it takes no longer than say, 5 YEARS.

11. Close all the loop holes in our current immigration policy; ensure that the laws therein are clearly stated.

Fair enough. Fix the problems and make the laws more workable.

The laws are plenty workable, they just need to be FOLLOWED.

12. Arrest anyone harboring illegal aliens for any reason (i.e. family members, etc.)

Not practical. I would not support the arrest of a young woman who "harbors" her illegal alien mother in her home. How the hell would we even go about enforcing such a thing?

Harboring illegal aliens is ALREADY against the law. We simply need to ENFORCE it.

13. Any church caught assisting, harboring, aiding or abetting an IA should have their tax exempt status rescinded. The enabler should be jailed for treason.

Too dramatic and unnecessary.

I'd bet that all the Catholic Church's PANDERING would stop in a HEARTBEAT!

14. Any government official aiding, abetting or harboring illegal aliens should be fined and promptly jailed, inclusive of those declaring their city/state as an illegal alien sanctuary.

Too dramatic, unnecessary, and totally unworkable. How do you define "sanctuary city" anyways? Is Atlanta one? How about Wichita? New York?

New York is one. San Francisco another. Los Angeles, too. We should cut off ALL Federal funds to these cities that have taken it upon themselves to declare their status as 'sanctuaries'.

15. Only when things settle down, and we have revised our policies to reflect the original reasons/rules for legal immigration. Allow LEGAL immigration in limited quotas to suit the needs of AMERICA, not because somebody is looking for the "American Dream" or think they are entitled to their nonexistent "piece of the pie".

Fair enough.. however, I believe that the United States economy is absorbing the current flow of immigrant (including the illegal immigrants) - it is my opinion that the "needs of America" are bring met pretty well. If you doubled the amount of immigrants, my opinion might very well change.

What 'you believe' has resulted in the loss of jobs for American workers and the lowering of their wages to the tune of $200 BILLION a year. Your 'opinion' is as flawed as the logic that created it.
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Old 07-15-2008, 06:01 PM
 
7,020 posts, read 9,898,849 times
Reputation: 1094
Quote:
Originally Posted by crisp444 View Post
1. I suggest that we scratch the plan for the fence and build a 20 foot wall around the entire perimeter of our southern border.

Though I don't support it, I don't really care enough about the "wall" issue to get riled up over it. It's a distraction to the real issue and I don't like to get caught up in the symbolism.

2. Until the wall is complete, I suggest that we post armed guards at the current border and post signs advising the invaders of shoot to kill orders of anyone who becomes resistant upon being turned back.

This is a bit much, don't you think?

3. Seal up all the drug tunnels.

Fine with me.

4. ABOLISH the 14th Amendment; no more anchor babies. Only children born in the US to illegal alien parents prior to 1998 will be grandfathered in.

So we are going to marginalize the children of illegal aliens who, at no fault of their own, were born into a land that refuses to recognize their birthright to citizenship? I am very against this notion.

5. Cut off ALL social services and free education to non citizens. Only emergency health care will be given and the bill should be sent to the government of the illegal aliens country of origin;

See above response. It is unimaginable to turn away the children of illegal aliens from our schools because it would create more social problems (and cost more money) than the money that would be saved from refusing to educate them. The Supreme Court has said that access to free public education is a pseudo-fundamental right. I support the continuation of education and social services to illegal aliens because without providing these services, it is quite possible that the aggregate amount of damage done to American society due to rampant unemployment, homelessness, sickness, and increased crime would far surpass the amount of money saved by not spending money on education, healthcare, and the like.

6. Raid all businesses suspected of hiring/harboring illegal aliens. Crack down on ALL employers caught hiring illegal aliens with stiff fines and hefty jail sentences. Women with children should be forced to take their children with them UNLESS they fall under the grandfather clause. If they have an American citizen/legal resident relative or friend they should be allowed to make arrangements (from their jail cell) with regard to the care of the anchor baby.

The raids are a bit much for me. However, I wouldn't be opposed to fining employers of illegal aliens.

7. Rid the jails of all IA's and make their respective government responsible for receiving them. If they refuse, cut off ALL aid until they take responsibility for their nationals.

The one instance in which I would possibly support deportation is in the instance of an illegal alien committing a grave crime like murder, rape, armed robbery, etc. Send the true, dangerous criminals back to their countries and let their governments deal with them.

8. Make America's official language ENGLISH.

For me this is a non-issue. It's symbolic and I don't like to get caught up in it. English is in no way threatened, so making it the national language isn't necessary; however, I would not be opposed to a measure that simply declared it our "national language."

9. Abolish the printing of all taxpayer funded government forms in any foreign language.

This is not practical. Newly arrived immigrants need this service and just because the Italians had a hard time with it in the 1920's doesn't mean that we should stubbornly and haphazardly refuse to provide government literature regarding transportation, education, and healthcare in languages other than English.

10. Temporary moratorium on ALL immigration until the majority of the IA's either self deport or are legally deported.

I just don't find this necessary, and therefore I would not support this.

11. Close all the loop holes in our current immigration policy; ensure that the laws therein are clearly stated.

Fair enough. Fix the problems and make the laws more workable.

12. Arrest anyone harboring illegal aliens for any reason (i.e. family members, etc.)

Not practical. I would not support the arrest of a young woman who "harbors" her illegal alien mother in her home. How the hell would we even go about enforcing such a thing?

13. Any church caught assisting, harboring, aiding or abetting an IA should have their tax exempt status rescinded. The enabler should be jailed for treason.

Too dramatic and unnecessary.

14. Any government official aiding, abetting or harboring illegal aliens should be fined and promptly jailed, inclusive of those declaring their city/state as an illegal alien sanctuary.

Too dramatic, unnecessary, and totally unworkable. How do you define "sanctuary city" anyways? Is Atlanta one? How about Wichita? New York?

15. Only when things settle down, and we have revised our policies to reflect the original reasons/rules for legal immigration. Allow LEGAL immigration in limited quotas to suit the needs of AMERICA, not because somebody is looking for the "American Dream" or think they are entitled to their nonexistent "piece of the pie".

Fair enough.. however, I believe that the United States economy is absorbing the current flow of immigrant (including the illegal immigrants) - it is my opinion that the "needs of America" are bring met pretty well. If you doubled the amount of immigrants, my opinion might very well change.

Wow . . .are you a citizen of this country?
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Old 07-15-2008, 06:05 PM
 
7,020 posts, read 9,898,849 times
Reputation: 1094
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roguer View Post
No, just the non PC facts of a situaltion.



Not at all. If you vent in a rational way you haven't lost any argument.

Be careful now. Pro illegals make up statistics and absurdities at an alarming rate. If you resort to sob stories do you automatically lose an argument?



Yeah. Let's get real and shed this forum of PC in an intelligent and civilized manner. I'm not concerned at all with being better than illegal poverty reject Mexican scabs, just pro illegal open border activists with overlapping propagandistic agendas.

The poster is not being truthful in his claims that I "make up statistics". That being said, many of these posters are DREAMIES praying for the passage of the DREAM ACT for themselves and amnesty for the rest of their illegal alien counterparts.

As bad as our economic circumstances are, it just may be the wakeup call the idiots in Washington and the corporate monsters need. Without jobs there are no taxpayers; without our tax dollars a collapse of the entire system is inevitable.

Right about now the corporate and government scabs are damned if they do and damned if they don't.
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Old 07-15-2008, 06:07 PM
 
Location: California
3,172 posts, read 5,996,951 times
Reputation: 332
Quote:
Originally Posted by JDubsMom View Post
Wow . . .are you a citizen of this country?
Of course he isn't. I mean, he disagrees with your opinion. How could he be a citizen?

I mean, thats why there are no debates over issues at all in this country. Because all the citizens agree and have one point of view for every issue.
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Old 07-15-2008, 06:14 PM
 
7,020 posts, read 9,898,849 times
Reputation: 1094
Quote:
Originally Posted by amc760 View Post
Of course he isn't. I mean, he disagrees with your opinion. How could he be a citizen?

I mean, thats why there are no debates over issues at all in this country. Because all the citizens agree and have one point of view for every issue.

Sarcastic remark duly noted. That being said, unlike so many IA huggers and those from 3rd world nations, as a born and bred American, I am a staunch advocate of SOVEREIGNTY, free speech and opinions. I was asking the poster a reasonable question in light of the fact that his reply mimicks that of OBL's such as yourself.
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Old 07-15-2008, 06:15 PM
 
Location: Mesa, Az
21,148 posts, read 36,628,664 times
Reputation: 3785
1. I suggest that we scratch the plan for the fence and build a 20 foot wall around the entire perimeter of our southern border.

Agree

2. Until the wall is complete, I suggest that we post armed guards at the current border and post signs advising the invaders of shoot to kill orders of anyone who becomes resistant upon being turned back.

Agree-----Spain and even Mexico have strict anti illegal immigration controls along their borders.

3. Seal up all the drug tunnels.

Agree

4. ABOLISH the 14th Amendment; no more anchor babies. Only children born in the US to illegal alien parents prior to 1998 will be grandfathered in.

Disagree------but, set an arbitrary date for future US born Anchor Babies assuming that both parents are indeed here illegally------grandfather in the existing ones in all fairness but the parents would still need to leave.

5. Cut off ALL social services and free education to non citizens. Only emergency health care will be given and the bill should be sent to the government of the illegal aliens country of origin;

Add in green card holders/legal immigrants------otherwise I agree

6. Raid all businesses suspected of hiring/harboring illegal aliens. Crack down on ALL employers caught hiring illegal aliens with stiff fines and hefty jail sentences. Women with children should be forced to take their children with them UNLESS they fall under the grandfather clause. If they have an American citizen/legal resident relative or friend they should be allowed to make arrangements (from their jail cell) with regard to the care of the anchor baby.

Agreed

7. Rid the jails of all IA's and make their respective government responsible for receiving them. If they refuse, cut off ALL aid until they take responsibility for their nationals.

Agreed

8. Make America's official language ENGLISH.

Sad to say; it has become necessary IMHO

9. Abolish the printing of all taxpayer funded government forms in any foreign language.

Agree except for materials pertaining to public health/safety

10. Temporary moratorium on ALL immigration until the majority of the IA's either self deport or are legally deported.

This one I will have to disagree with

11. Close all the loop holes in our current immigration policy; ensure that the laws therein are clearly stated.

Agreed

12. Arrest anyone harboring illegal aliens for any reason (i.e. family members, etc.)

Agreed

13. Any church caught assisting, harboring, aiding or abetting an IA should have their tax exempt status rescinded. The enabler should be jailed for treason.

Maybe not treason but definitely some charges should apply

14. Any government official aiding, abetting or harboring illegal aliens should be fined and promptly jailed, inclusive of those declaring their city/state as an illegal alien sanctuary.

Agreed

15. Only when things settle down, and we have revised our policies to reflect the original reasons/rules for legal immigration. Allow LEGAL immigration in limited quotas to suit the needs of AMERICA, not because somebody is looking for the "American Dream" or think they are entitled to their nonexistent "piece of the pie".

Refer to your post #10 and my reply


How's this for starters? If I think of anything else, I'll add it.

Works for me
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Old 07-15-2008, 06:18 PM
 
Location: California
3,172 posts, read 5,996,951 times
Reputation: 332
Quote:
Originally Posted by JDubsMom View Post
Sarcastic remark duly noted. That being said, unlike so many IA huggers and those from 3rd world nations, as a born and bred American, I am a staunch advocate of SOVEREIGNTY, free speech and opinions. I was asking the poster a reasonable question in light of the fact that his reply mimicks that of OBL's such as yourself.
OBL? Open border lobbyist? Huh???

Hey, I'm a born and bred American too. Cool!
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